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Compatibilists don't believe man has a free will.I was being a bit sarcastic.
Most of the time people tend to mistake the compatibilist position to be an attempt to reconcile two competing things (man's will and God's will), a misconception that does not take into account that God is not man.
I like the football game comparison.I agree and disagree.
Because God knows all does not mean He has predestined it.
This is such a common belief that it rather surprises me.
If you offer your little daughter ice-cream, you just know she's going to choose vanilla.
But did YOU make her choose vanilla?
No. It was her choice - you just knew what she'd choose.
I like to think of it as the football game. You might know this idea.
As to Judas,,,I'd have to agree that some persons were predestined.
Judas would be one, Abraham, Mary - very few others.
Where did you hear that? It certainly is not true.Compatibilists don't believe man has a free will.
Or. . .that it is his will that they happen. . .and we misunderstand his will?Can it be that God allows things to happen that isn't His will to happen?
Don't diss the good cowboy. . .he gets them there! . .which is the goal. . .not whether they chose it or not.Websters definition of fatalism: the belief that all events are predetermined and therefore inevitable.
Although God desires all men to be saved, many are not. God is not omni-controlling and pulling strings. Just because God can be a forcer, does not mean He is. Hopefully this helps: Jesus is the Good Shephard who leads His flock - He is
not the Good Cowboy who drives the herd!
Sorry Clare, I knew what you meant but I was on a cell and couldn't reply.
Since free will is not discussed in the bible in the actual words, some feel that this is an indication that free will is non-existent throughout scripture.
The reason it's not stated clearly as you would like is because it is taken for granted that man has free will.
If you're familiar with the Covenants you would know that we certainly have free will.
A covenant could be unilateral or bilateral.
A bilateral covenant states that God is to do His part,
and man is to do his part.
Actually, it shows no such thing.If man does NOT do his part, then a curse will come upon man.
The fact that God tells man what his part is and that he is to keep it shows that we have the free will to either obey God and get a blessing, or disobey God and get a curse. (in covenants).
The true (in heart) Israelites being God's people, would be enabled by God to serve God (Philippians 2:13), they could not do it otherwise.Joshua told the Israelites to CHOOSE this day whom they will serve.
Not necessarily. . .a command to choose does not imply the power to choose.Joshua 24:15
15But if you refuse to serve the LORD, then choose today whom you will serve. Would you prefer the gods your ancestors served beyond the Euphrates? Or will it be the gods of the Amorites in whose land you now live? But as for me and my family, we will serve the LORD.”
Choice requires that there be two options.
If we're told to choose between the two options, it means we have free will.
It's not either/or, it's both/and.I'd say that penal substitution is like Jesus being punished instead of us due to God's wrath.
This theory is a result of the reformation of 1,500AD
Jesus must die to satisfy God's wrath against humanity, or human sin.
Jesus Christ is punished instead of the sinner.
I don't really care for this theory of atonement.
Christus Victor is much more preferable.
It doesn't seem that would amount to them sending themselves to hell though, if God predestined them to go there no matter what.
The Calvinist / Reformed interpretation of Romans 9 didn't exist until 1500 years after it was written.
And according to what I looked up, currently only about 80 million out of 800 million (10%) Protestants are Calvinist / Reformed.
Augustine would not agree with your "Reformed interpretation of Romans 9" statement. Arminianism didn't exist until about 1590 or thereabouts. I've read polls that show that only 10% of those who identify as being "a Christian" are biblically and in reality a genuine born again Christian.
Penal Substitution Theory is exclusive. If it is correct then every other view is wrongIt's not either/or, it's both/and.
Both are true, they are not mutually exclusive.
Augustine did introduce what Christians previously considered to be pagan philosophy in terms of fatalism. So whike new to Christianity, it was not actually new.Some say Augustine brought in a whole range of new teachings to the Church.
10%? That's not very optimistic numbers.
Who made that rule?Penal Substitution Theory is exclusive. If it is correct then every other view is wrong
Which does not negate "liberating man from the bondage of sin and death."Christus Victor, the Moral Influence Theory, Recapitulation, the Government Theory, the Ransom Theory.....all of these have a common theme -
Christ lay down His life to die by the powers of darkness, as was God's predetermined plan,
to liberate man from the bondage of sin and death.
Penal Substitution Theory is the only theory that presents Christ experiencing God's wrath as a punishment for our sins so that we would not.
Assertion is not demonstration. . .which Biblical demonstration is necessary for assertion to have merit.Other views, maybe with the exception of the Satisfaction Theory, are not mutually exclusive. But Penal Substitution Theory stands alone or it falls.
Then “SALVATION” is not a gift from God, it is a choice of men. You have chosen to place the power to make a difference (saved vs damned) in the hands of men.And I think this is true. Grace is available to all men. Whether or not we take advantage of that is another factor.
Ephesians 2:1-3 … nobody wants to be with Him (we were all by nature Children of Wrath).In order to spend eternity with God, we must want to be with Him and we must obey Him.
Ephesians 2:1-3 … nobody wants to be with Him (we were all by nature Children of Wrath).
God makes the change in us (Ephesians 2:5).
Then “SALVATION” is not a gift from God, it is a choice of men. You have chosen to place the power to make a difference (saved vs damned) in the hands of men.
Romans 3:10-11 [NASB95]This is not what it means. Being a child of wrath and being dead in sin means being under condemnation.
You have as much power/choice to refuse that "gift" as you do to refuse both your natural birth and your spiritual birth (John 3:3-8).If you refuse to receive the present from your dad on your birthday,
does that mean it wasn't a gift?
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