How the ark was made.

Delphiki · Dec 23, 2010

All it would take, to prove the ark was even possible, is to build one from the materials and techniques at Noah's disposal. Why doesn't someone do this? Heck, I don't even care if you put any animals on it. I want to see an actual sized ark, made from actual gopher wood, and have it set adrift in the ocean and see if it holds together.

If Ham is going to spend all that money on an amusement attraction, why not build a REAL ark instead. That would at least prove it to be feasible.

keith99 · Dec 23, 2010

Frumious Bandersnatch said:
There is no naturalistic explanation that possibly works. The entire scenario is absurd in the extreme. Suppose by some miracle this honeycomb structure didn't leak like a sieve as it flexed in the waves. You now have thousands of animals to take care of on a three level, "honeycomb structure" with one window. I assume you think all these animals are on cages in the honeycomb. How will 8 people take care of all these thousands of animals? Have you ever worked on a boat? I have. It adds many complications. Have you ever cared for horses, cows, goats, pigs or chickens. I have and under fairly primative conditions (no electricity or running water for instance) but not under anything like the conditions on the ark. Do have any idea how much waste these thousands of animals will generate and all of it dispersed through your honeycomb?
A single elephant can produce 300 lbs of feces per day. How much do you think the pair of indricotherium produced.
Indricotherium: Largest Land Mammal Ever - Associated Content from Yahoo! - associatedcontent.com

How about the Brontotheriidea?
Brontotheriidae - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Not to mention all the other large land mammals and the dinosaurs and large permian reptiles like dimetrodon
Dimetrodon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Or do you think all these animals were extinct at the time of the flood story? Even with only modern animals it just won't work.

The story requires the presence of a lot of birds. Do you know that you can die from trying to clean out a poorly ventillated chickhouse? Think of doing it on this big boat sealed with pitch during 40 days and night of global rain.

Then you have to have specialized diets for a lot of these animals and you have only 8 people to take care of all of them. This giant leaking, flexing, supposedly floating zoo would be a death trap for all on board even if it didn't sink the first time it encountered a wave.

Bolding mine.

But the 40 days and 40 nights is just the first act. The rain started on hte 17th day of the second month in the 600th year on Noah's life. It wasn't until the 27th day of the second month of year 601 that they left the Ark.

Even with taking into account the shortness of a lunar calendar we are still talking about almost a year, not the nice short 40 days.

Frumious Bandersnatch · Dec 23, 2010

oldwiseguy said:
Your assumptions trump even my speculations.

My "assumptions" are based on the story. Of course I assume it is a myth but if not then Noah and family would have had to deal with the things I brought up.

Pick your favorite and I'll try to address it (you've tossed too much stuff at me in one post, a common debate tactic intended to overwhelm and confuse the opponent).

All right. How do you get around in the honeycomb of the lower decks of the ark to feed and dispose of the waste of thousands of different kinds of animals with only 8 people to do it? What do you use for light? Don't forget that during the first 40 days you have to also deal with the fact that it is pouring down rain.

Frumious Bandersnatch · Dec 23, 2010

keith99 said:
Bolding mine.

But the 40 days and 40 nights is just the first act. The rain started on hte 17th day of the second month in the 600th year on Noah's life. It wasn't until the 27th day of the second month of year 602 that they left the Ark.

Even with taking into account the shortness of a lunar calendar we are still talking about almost a year, not the nice short 40 days.

I know they were on the ark a long time according the story but the story would seem to indicate that that rain was extremely intense the first 40 days and nights, having covered the mountain tops by then.

AV1611VET · Dec 23, 2010

Delphiki said:
All it would take, to prove the ark was even possible, is to build one from the materials and techniques at Noah's disposal. Why doesn't someone do this? Heck, I don't even care if you put any animals on it. I want to see an actual sized ark, made from actual gopher wood, and have it set adrift in the ocean and see if it holds together.

History would repeat itself, wouldn't it?

Exodus 8:18 And the magicians did so with their enchantments to bring forth lice, but they could not:

Matthew 22:29b Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

Delphiki · Dec 23, 2010

keith99 said:
Bolding mine.

But the 40 days and 40 nights is just the first act. The rain started on hte 17th day of the second month in the 600th year on Noah's life. It wasn't until the 27th day of the second month of year 602 that they left the Ark.

Even with taking into account the shortness of a lunar calendar we are still talking about almost a year, not the nice short 40 days.

2 x 10,000kg Elephants each would also need to consume 300kg of food per day.

378 days

That's about 133000kg needed to be on board for just two elephants. There are at least 2 known species of elephant... Should we double that number or did the Asian and African elephants both evolve from the same "kind". Oh yes.. I forgot. Unicorns probably just gave birth to 120kg elephant calves after the flood, among other things.

Frumious Bandersnatch · Dec 23, 2010

Delphiki said:
All it would take, to prove the ark was even possible, is to build one from the materials and techniques at Noah's disposal. Why doesn't someone do this? Heck, I don't even care if you put any animals on it. I want to see an actual sized ark, made from actual gopher wood, and have it set adrift in the ocean and see if it holds together.

If Ham is going to spend all that money on an amusement attraction, why not build a REAL ark instead. That would at least prove it to be feasible.

Because they know very well that it would sink. They could also try taking care of 2 each of all the different kinds of animals in the San Diego zoo with only 8 people on this boat but that would lead to lots of complaints about all the dead animals.

Delphiki · Dec 23, 2010

AV1611VET said:
Matthew 22:29b Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

...which is apparently insufficient enough to build an ark without the aid of a human, let alone just speak everything into a new existence.

dawiyd · Dec 23, 2010

AV1611VET said:
Yes -- based upon how God handled other similar situations, and employing line-upon-line, precept-upon-precept hermeneutics.

Not really, all you two are doing is using the "spirit of God" as a platform on which you're spewing out conjecture, like it has some validity, yet it has no biblical basis at all. You did something similar the Leviathan a couple of days ago which I called you out on.

AV1611VET · Dec 23, 2010

dawiyd said:
Not really, all you two are doing is using the "spirit of God" as a platform on which you're spewing out conjecture, like it has an validity of biblical basis at all.

As I have pointed out before, we see in the Scriptures how God "micromanaged" similar situations before.

How did He feed all those animals? QV 1 Kings 17

Why didn't the animals feed on each other? QV Daniel 6

I'm not saying it definitely happened that way, but if you want, we could just say it happened -- case closed.

Mike Elphick · Dec 23, 2010

oldwiseguy said:
Only the briefest instruction is recorded. Many more features could have been incorporated, perhaps including opaque panels that would allow light in, as well as ventilation and other necessary mechanical systems.

Possibly this; probably that; maybe so and so! Did you see the list of typical creationist conjectures and invention that I presented in another thread? Slorry to say, owg, your guesses are no better. BTW Sheet glass for windows was not developed until many years later.

Note that the 'covering' that Noah removed at the end of the event is only mentioned once. What this covering was is not know.

Ah, you did read my post, because that's where you got this from.

Regards the honeycomb structure, that would be the 'rooms' that would have been framed into the superstructure in such a way to give great strength. This is not an 'interpretation' but merely speculation about the likelyhood of what I've presented. If I were Noah I would certainly have built alot of stuff into the ark that wasn't in the instructions. Notice that there are no prohibitions given to Noah regarding the construction, only the briefest instruction regarding the overall size, materials, etc. I would guess he had a lot of leeway. He may even have written 'Ararat or Bust' on the side.

And launched by Noah with a bottle of Adam's Ale (he would have kept the alcoholic stuff for himself) .

Delphiki · Dec 23, 2010

Delphiki said:
...which is apparently insufficient enough to build an ark without the aid of a human, let alone just speak everything into a new existence.

Ok.. Trekkie moment...

"What does GOD need with a Starship?"

MacNeil, D. · Dec 23, 2010

oldwiseguy said:
I just noticed something interesting. The ark was to built in three 'stories'. The Hebrew definition carries the idea of 'steps'....k.

Don't know much about naval architecture, eh?

LifeToTheFullest! · Dec 23, 2010

Delphiki said:
All it would take, to prove the ark was even possible, is to build one from the materials and techniques at Noah's disposal. Why doesn't someone do this? Heck, I don't even care if you put any animals on it. I want to see an actual sized ark, made from actual gopher wood, and have it set adrift in the ocean and see if it holds together.

If Ham is going to spend all that money on an amusement attraction, why not build a REAL ark instead. That would at least prove it to be feasible.

You're onto something here Delphiki. Better yet, film a reality show where you have three teams competing against each other, using any and all modern tools to build an ark using the dimensions the bible gives, to be completed in six months. Of course, the winning ark would be the one that would float and hold all the animales.

MacNeil, D. · Dec 23, 2010

LifeToTheFullest! said:
... the winning ark would be the one that would float ...

Float for more than 10 minutes.

OldWiseGuy · Dec 23, 2010

Frumious Bandersnatch said:
My "assumptions" are based on the story. Of course I assume it is a myth but if not then Noah and family would have had to deal with the things I brought up.

All right. How do you get around in the honeycomb of the lower decks of the ark to feed and dispose of the waste of thousands of different kinds of animals with only 8 people to do it? What do you use for light? Don't forget that during the first 40 days you have to also deal with the fact that it is pouring down rain.

The ark was a complicated structure that took 120 years to complete. Your 'assumptions' are that of a literalist that cannot see past the very brief written account. My 'speculations' flesh out the story. To your questions: They walked through doorways and stairways to the different levels, just as you would a house with three stories. The 'rooms' all had entry doors as well........I expect that oil lamps were the main source of lighting.........They were on the ark before it started raining. The 40 days of rainfall would have provided their water supply, as well as swelled the timbers and planking of whole structure, aiding in making it watertight. The ark didn't move until the main floodwaters from the sea arrived at the site.

OldWiseGuy · Dec 23, 2010

Mike Elphick said:
Possibly this; probably that; maybe so and so! Did you see the list of typical creationist conjectures and invention that I presented in another thread? Slorry to say, owg, your guesses are no better. BTW Sheet glass for windows was not developed until many years later.

Ah, you did read my post, because that's where you got this from.

And launched by Noah with a bottle of Adam's Ale (he would have kept the alcoholic stuff for himself) .

You have your assumptions, I have my speculations. I got the 'covering' question from the Genesis account, which I study alot....... I was thinking more of massive opaque panels made of crude glass that might have been discovered as a byproduct of smelting metals. It certainly would have been discovered at that time if not before. Remember that alot of knowledge died with the flood and was problably not rediscovered for centuries. .

AV1611VET · Dec 23, 2010

oldwiseguy said:
I have speculations that no one has ever considered, to my knowledge that is.

Do you believe there were space ships on the earth before the Flood?

laconicstudent · Dec 23, 2010

I want a structural engineer posting in this thread.

AV1611VET · Dec 23, 2010

laconicstudent said:
I want a structural engineer posting in this thread.

Me too -- I want two and a half screens of detailed explanations, charts and drawings; so I can pwn it all with a Bible verse.

How the ark was made.

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