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How Orthodox are these Lutheran documents?

AMM

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Not trying to start a debate, so that's why I'm posting in St. Basil's not St. Justin's. I'm wondering specifically about Martin Luther's Small Catechism, although I'd also be interested in a modern Orthodox dialogue on the Augsburg Confession and other Lutheran documents (I know there's already the dialogues between Patr. Jeremias II in the 1600s)



If anyone wiser than me would be so inclined, let me know what you think of this. Are there any issues with it from an Orthodox point of view?



The document is broken up into 2 halves, with 3 sections each, and then some tertiary stuff at the end. It’s a bit long so I’ll post multiple messages/quotes. You can also find the whole thing here: The Small Catechism - Book of Concord



The first 3 sections are on faith: the Commandments, the Creed, and the Lord’s Prayer.









 

AMM

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On the Sacraments:



 
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AMM

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Final sections on daily Prayer, Christian living, and approaching the Sacrament



 
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Pavel Mosko

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edit. I doubt your going to find much beyond Jeremiah II. Well I found this on one OCA site.


Such careful, extended theological dialogue would not take place again between Protestants and the Orthodox until 1716, when some Non-Juror Anglicans entered into theological discussion with representatives of the Patriarchate of Alexandria who were visiting London. Tsar Peter I of Russia (r. 1689–1725) even took interest in this dialogue, but it ended when it was denounced by the Archbishop of Canterbury on the grounds that the Non-Jurors were in schism from the Anglican Church.

The next substantial ecumenical dialogue would not occur until the middle of the nineteenth century, when certain Anglican theologians of the Oxford Movement showed much interest in the Church of Russia. Orthodoxy was very ably described and defended in this unofficial dialogue by the distinguished lay theologian, Alexei Khomiakov (1804–1860).



I guess if you can track down those two other meetings that might yield some insight.
 
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Pavel Mosko

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It's been a decade or so since Orchid lands (Orlapubs) Orthodox site went off the internet. The father there posted elaborate critiques of various Faith Professions especially Protestant and Catholic. If Eastern Orthodox have several differences with late medieval Catholicism Scholasticism etc. If that is the case then what chance do some of the Reformers have coming out of that Theological heritage before they begin to read the Bible on their own, "letting scripture speak for itself" etc.?


https://www.amazon.com/Aristotle-East-West-Bradshaw/dp/0521035562
 
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AMM

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That's interesting, I'll look into that some. I've heard of Alexei Khomiakov before

I get what you're saying. At the same time, sometimes the Reformers were reacting to the philosophy of medieval Catholic Scholasticism in ways that leaned more towards Plato than Aristotle, for example. Which I think is part of why certain aspects of some protestant faiths (Lutherans and Anglicans in particular) are more similar to Orthoodoxy than Catholicism. But also, some things were still interpreted in that same philosophical framework as catholic scholastism.
 
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AMM

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I'm interested in that Bradshaw book. I just read Church, Papacy, and Schism by Philip Sherrard and it touched on some of the philosophical differences in ecclesiology between Orthodoxy and Catholicism (and to your point -- I recognized a lot of (but not all) what he described in the Catholic view as part of my Lutheran heritage). It was really interesting and I'm guessing this Bradshaw book would add to that conversation
 
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ArmyMatt

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two clear issues I can see. for one, "give us our daily bread" is a Eucharistic reference and not only about food. and two, the point about communion being more about the words than the communing is also not correct.
 
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AMM

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two clear issues I can see. for one, "give us our daily bread" is a Eucharistic reference and not only about food. and two, the point about communion being more about the words than the communing is also not correct.
Interesting, thanks for the input. I will say that I was always taught that "give us this day our daily bread" also referred to the eucharist, not just bodily needs (including food), but it's not "officially" stated in the Lutheran doctrinal documents. So that's interesting.

And about communion, good point. I don't think it's saying communing is not important, but rather that communing without faith is to be unprepared and to "give thee a kiss as did Judas". Whereas Rome (at that time) would say that it's the act of eating in itself that is beneficial. One example where Protestant theology is primarily a reaction to Roman errors, and falls into (or close to) the opposite extreme error.

Thanks for that input though, I hadn't picked up on those differences
 
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