lesliedellow
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You never will, because the early universe was opaque to light.
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we cannot see any evidence yet of a big bang yet,
That's not what I'm talking about... And again, that is "theory"... What if the universe did not originate that way...?You never will, because the early universe was opaque to light.
That's not what I'm talking about... And again, that is "theory"... What if the universe did not originate that way...?
If were seeing enough of a kind of explosion, we should be able to tell and determine a center point or point of origin or be bale to tell it's an explosion or came from a big bang like center... But, we either cannot or do not see that... In fact the more we see, the less it looks like a big bang, or we at least see no evidence of that at all yet and we should by now, and forgive if I've said this multiple times in this thread already, along with other points no one has addressed yet...
What about those points...?
God Bless!
And what actual observable evidence of that...?The big bang did not occur in space. Everything we now see as space originated with the big bang. The term "big bang" is not particularly helpful, because it suggests a rapidly expanding ball of hot gas. But that is not what is meant. The thing doing the expanding is space.
If you left where you to go to another place in the universe, not only as you traveled, you'd always appear to be the center, but, the place you left when you got to your destination and where you were going, looking back to where you were or came form, if it was far away, would appearing to be moving away from fast, the further away, the faster away from you, with you as the center, same is true of everything else...And what actual observable evidence of that...?
Much of the observable evidence we have now does not only, not show that in any way, but suggests or points to something else going on...
Why is there no observable center...? Or why doesn't the evidence we have point to that in any way...? And why does it always appear that "we are the center" no matter where we are...? Even as we would move or travel through it...?
God Bless!
And what actual observable evidence of that...?
Much of the observable evidence we have now does not only, not show that in any way, but suggests or points to something else going on...
Why is there no observable center...? Or why doesn't the evidence we have point to that in any way...? And why does it always appear that "we are the center" no matter where we are...? Even as we would move or travel through it...?
God Bless!
Except we live in three dimensions, and we should be able to see a center or evidence of a center by now, but, we do not... The expansion is not happening from a single center, but it is happening equally everywhere... In all three dimensions (granted there may be more dimensions, but were not talking about that here)...The analogy which is always used is that of an expanding sphere. If you were a two dimensional creature living on the surface of that sphere, you would see every other point on the surface of that sphere moving away from you, but there would be no centre of expansion.
Hi BobBut, what's beyond that?
M-Bob
Re-posting (again)...
God Bless!
There is no edge to the universe.
As I said, if it is finite, we are like two dimensional creatures living on the surface of a sphere, except that everything has to be scaled up by one dimension. Since our brains are programmed to think in three dimensions, four dimensions are not particularly easy to visualise, but our limitations tell you nothing about the nature of reality.
I said "If there were", it would be like, ect, ect...
And I do not see how you or any of us can know that yet, for sure...
This does not require thinking in four or more dimensions to understand this, but only the three that we know of, and this should be pretty easy to understand with what we know now... And it/this does not take thinking and/or understanding any other dimensions to understand this at all...
In the three dimensions we know, in all of those dimensions, it is expanding equally everywhere, with two forces, gravity trying to pull everything back in on itself to eventually collect at a center, (except it doesn't due to the expansion caused by these dark areas of the universe that are not normal matter (possibly dark matter) pushing out equally in all directions and on each other and the normal matter and material (us) and everything else (and causing the expansion of space time, or the fabric, or canvas, or the fabric of our universe, ect) and counterbalancing or counteracting the force of gravity in a balanced out way that could be nigh perpetual, and makes one like me wonder not only how old it truly is and/or could be, but it's possible size as well, and not to mention other things, like is anything really even moving or in motion, or is that all only really relative to where you are or are currently "at" in it... And, is there even really, or was there really ever even a center at all (to begin with maybe)...
And "If there were and edge to it", those dark pockets as they reached that edge, would be like air bubbles rising to the surface of water, and the water would be like all the normal matter or material (or us), which, as a bubble reaches the surface the force pulling the water down (like gravity does or tends to do in the universe with normal matter) Anyway, the water, as an air pocket reached the surface, the water would collect and go around it (that air pocket) and would collect and join together with the rest of the water, and around the other air pockets still in the water that have not reached the surface yet and are moving through the water still...
Course we cannot see that yet, I'm just saying if it does or if it would have and edge to it, is all...
Of course the water in the glass example would be moving and rising slightly as the bubbles both expanded and got a bit larger, but slowly as they moved toward the top or surface of the water (or edge of the universe, if it has one) (and just enough to counteract and counterbalance gravity) but as it/they (the dark pockets, bubbles) reached the top, (or surface, or edge), the water on top of the bubble as it (the Bubble/Bubbles) reached the surface (edge) the water (normal matter/us) would go around that bubble and sink back into the glass and join with the rest of the water again, and the water level would go down just slightly, and the bubble/bubbles would pop and/or dissipate as it joined the rest of the air (dark pitch blackness) above it, (or beyond it, or at the top, or edge) and then it would happen again, and again, and again, and again, and again, possibly for an eternity, literally... Which really makes one wonder about the true nature and start of it all (the/this universe) and if maybe that is or has been (so) for an eternity, literally, as well...
And the water level would be raising (or rising) "just slightly" (overall) and lowering "just slightly" (overall), but never really ever overflowing the water in the glass, nor ever really ever making the glass empty or even close to it, nor ever have any less water in it at any time, nor would the water (or normal matter/us) ever be any more or less dense, or really any more or less contracted or expanded at any time, as all these bubbles moved through it and reached the surface of the water... It (the water) (level) might raise just slightly, and lower just slightly, but the glass would never ever overflow or ever be or become empty either or ever even close to it (or ever collect at a center due to gravity) due the counterbalanced and counteracting forces both pushing outward and inward equally or in a very balanced/counterbalanced way...
I hope this is making sense...?
God Bless!
At the risk of stating the obvious, we are not two dimensional creatures, so for the analogy to work an extra dimension is required.
If the universe has an edge, what would you expect to find there? Border guards?
And how would the other side of the border not still be the universe?
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