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The age of these hang on the notion that if their data is correct then these are X amount of years old. Who’s data is more complete, scientists’ or God’s?What about all the natural evidence that God gives us to study and examine? He wants us to know what He has done and what He is doing. There is a huge amount of fossil evidence. The geology society here has a gemstore show a few times a year. The fossils they sell are abundant and plentiful. Even I went with my son one year and there was an amateur gemologist that wanted to give him fossils for free.
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First the hebrew words are already translated for the KJV so no need to try to translate again. Unless you think the kjv translation is wrong - which I don’t.In a way He did, by giving the Hebrew word "yom" which has around four different meanings depending on the context. Being able to use the meaning "epoch" for "yom" successfully marries the Scripture record with scientific evidence. It enables us to see the Book of the Bible, along with the Book of Nature and see that they are compatible with each other. What it does is to enable atheists to be won to Christ in spite of them not believing the Biblical record, convincing them of the absolute design of the cosmos to show that it was designed and constructed by a Creator who is 10 to the power 30 guadrillion more intelligent and powerful than what we can imagine. Being unbending that the cosmos had to be created in 6 24 hour days will never turn any atheist to Christ just by quoting the Bible at them.
However, most Hebrew scholars agree that the context requires the meaning of "yom" to be "epoch" rather than a 24 hour day.
In this case I would agree but there are other bad translations in the KJV.First the hebrew words are already translated for the KJV so no need to try to translate again. Unless you think the kjv translation is wrong - which I don’t.
Second, And the evening and the morning examplifies the day. End of story
If scientists are right and man as we are today has existed for 300,000 years then that would mean that the genealogies in the Bible are wrong. That would mean that either the people in that chronology were actually living for tens of thousands of years before having a child or that there are people missing in the genealogies which causes a bigger problem because that means that they’re just flat out false. You can’t have a direct line of ancestry from Adam to Jesus if people are missing from that bloodline because then the scriptures would be saying that certain people had children that they didn’t actually have. That’s not an interpretational matter that becomes an outright false statement and this would have to occur numerous times in order for there to be a 294,000 year gap in the genealogies. If that’s the case then we’ve just proven that the Bible is not trustworthy.What about all the natural evidence that God gives us to study and examine? He wants us to know what He has done and what He is doing. There is a huge amount of fossil evidence. The geology society here has a gemstore show a few times a year. The fossils they sell are abundant and plentiful. Even I went with my son one year and there was an amateur gemologist that wanted to give him fossils for free.
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Basically I was talking about the term “there was evening and there was morning”. So far I haven’t seen a single OEC interpretation that incorporates this term. It’s always like a left over piece of the puzzle that never gets inserted into the interpretation.
Now if you care -- and it's not an important topic at all! -- my mere opinion: my guess is that the days in the vision in Genesis 1 were actual days like we have in a very ordinary human sense (just my guess) -- plain human style 24 hour days, and even though God could do anything (He isn't limited by our understandings or guesses....)..
To me, in Genesis 1, for example verse 8, it's a 24 hour day (that's my guess):
"And God called the expanse Heaven. And there was evening and there was morning, the second day." -- Gen 1:8
"day."
י֥וֹם (yō·wm)
Noun - masculine singular
Strong's 3117: A day
As I was writing to you before (but let me try to make it more clear and complete here), my own guess is these are 24 hour days (I might be wrong on that), and they are (as I wrote above) not video or photo reproductions in the vision, but a representation of an actual specific day (my guess), and those days are like snapshots in time (as I wrote above), meaning moments in time over a longer time: like photos you have of a child growing up over the years.
you are repeating to me what I've repeatedly already written above (several times now) -- the days in Genesis 1 were real, 24 hour days, with an evening and a morning -- there were 6 real 24 hour days, as I said several times).
but I assure you that I have read all of your posts in full.
Yes, evolutionary science involves a lot of deductions and inferences it seems to me, which you could characterize as speculative, or 'educated guessing'.That sounds somewhat speculative to me. Anyway, I have seen pictures of modern humans identical to the images of Neanderthals. It is always best to stick to the literal text of the Bible and not try to add stuff to it.
For sure the age of the earth is 4.5 billion or is that the age of universe.Some Christians think that the earth is between 6000 to 15,000 years old (coinciding with the Neolithic Age). Scientisgts think that it is 4.5 billion years old. Here is an attempt to resolve this incongruity.
Jesus turns water into wine in John 2:
7 Jesus said to the servants, “Fill the jars with water”; so they filled them to the brim. 8 Then he told them, “Now draw some out and take it to the master of the banquet.”
How old is this wine?
If you ask the servants, the human observers/witnesses, they would say a few seconds old.
The story continues:
9 and the master of the banquet tasted the water that had been turned into wine. He did not realize where it had come from, though the servants who had drawn the water knew. Then he called the bridegroom aside 10and said, “Everyone brings out the choice wine first and then the cheaper wine after the guests have had too much to drink; but you have saved the best till now.”
If you ask the expert, the master of the banquet, "How old is this wine?", he would say it was some months or even years old.
So which answer is true?
Both are true depending on the perspective. The supernatural perspective tells us that it was only a second old. The natural perspective tells us that it was at least some months old.
Similarly, in Genesis 1:
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. 2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters. ... 31 God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day.
How old is the earth?
If we ask a scientist from the natural perspective, he can only study the present-day physical data based on scientific calculation. It is 4.5 billion years old. That's the scientific space-time perspective, 3-d space + 1-d time. Space-time is calculated by mathematical formulas.
On the other hand, from the supernatural angle, if we read the Bible literally, the present-day earth is only some thousands of years old. That's the biblical witnessed-time perspective. Witnessed-time (or testified-time) is based on human memories from Adam downward.
So which answer is true?
Both are true depending on the time perspective. God created the earth with the embedded evolutionary records of billions of years. The Bible is not a scientific treatise. It focuses on the story of redemption. In terms of witnessed-time history, it is only some thousands of years old. On the other hand, from the scientific-time point of view, the earth is billions of years old.
Why would God deceive people or scientists?
God did not deceive people. The end-products of a miracle, have to obey the laws of physics and space-time.
Did not God create the universe last Thursday?
No, this is not the same as Last Thursdayism because God tells me the contrary. God did not create the universe last Thursday. Genesis contradicts this. As a witness, I can also contradict this. I was alive last Thursday. God was with me. God dwells in me. It happened in witnessed-time. I didn't see God create this universe last Thursday. I believe in the words of God, not Last Thursdayism.
Jesus spoke about it as a historical witnessed-time event in Mark 10:
6 “But at the beginning of creation God ‘made them male and female.’
From the perspective of scientific time, the details of this embedding are amazing:
- 24,000-year-old animal found alive, well, and ready to reproduce
- Fossils reveal what may be the oldest known case of the dino sniffles.
There are two different frameworks of time. Roughly, witnessed-time started when Adam opened his eyes. Space-time is measured by scientific calculations. Even scientifically, there is something funny about time.
I distinguish between these two concepts of time. The Bible speaks of events that happened in the historical witnessed-time. Scientific research speaks in terms of space-time. Both are real as far as today's people are concerned. In terms of First-Order Logic, they are both true. Both are real depending on your definition of time. It only proves God's creative power
See also Adam, Eve, and Evolution.
I leave that to scientists.For sure the age of the earth is 4.5 billion or is that the age of universe.
Have you factored in time dilation
here is a scientist for you. MIT trainedI leave that to scientists.
Well, I was pleasantly surprised to see a good understanding of day 4 (as I've laid out many times here at CF also in a very similar way):here is a scientist for you. MIT trained
The Age of the Universe: One Reality Viewed from Two Different Perspectives | Aish
Can the universe be young and old simultaneously?aish.com
Thanks for the reference. This is how to do referencing in a scholarly manner:here is a scientist for you. MIT trained
The Age of the Universe: One Reality Viewed from Two Different Perspectives | Aish
Can the universe be young and old simultaneously?aish.com
Well there were several problems during our conversation brother. Yes I know you said you believe in a 6 day creation, then as the discussion continued you said that Genesis 1 :1 and Genesis 1:2 didn’t not take place on the same day which contradicts the idea of a 6 day creation.? (look below please, and notice parts in red)
But the following post excerpts were written directly to you:
While even 1 post should be enough, as you wrote that you were reading my posts:
So.....?
What's going on here?
The wonderful verses 1 and 2 are of course not about time, but still we can notice that particular time duration (from the beginning in verse 1 and whatever duration that had to the later moment in verse 2) isn't even suggested in any way:
1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
no time duration stated in verse 1 for these actions...
then, eventually, this moment comes:
2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
We aren't told how much time passed during verse 1 until the moment in verse 2 where the Spirit comes to the waterworld Earth, because that's not the point of the scripture.
It's not about mere duration of time, but it's about something vastly more profound, wonderful and important.
Comparatively, mere time duration in mere mortal days is of no matter (if the time in verse 1 until the moment in verse 2 was 2.6 years or 1 hour or 9 billion years....all of these mere time durations are not of importance in comparison to the real point of the text).
For sure the age of the earth is 4.5 billion or is that the age of universe.
Have you factored in time dilation
Ah! That explains some things.Right here you’re saying that the time between verse 1 and verse 2 could’ve been 2.6 years, 1 hour, or 9 billion years. So obviously that is not a 6 day creation if verses 1 & 2 did not occur within one day.
you came up with this idea that Moses allegedly misinterpreted a vision
Can you give me a summary in layman’s terms?here is a scientist for you. MIT trained
The Age of the Universe: One Reality Viewed from Two Different Perspectives | Aish
Can the universe be young and old simultaneously?aish.com
Time is flexible, something can appear old when it's actually Young. Also, something can appear Young when it's actually old. It depends on your point of view.can You give me a summary in layman’s terms?
Yeah I'm sure there are some debateable ones but regarding Creation I just don't understand the controversy. The Bible says everything was created 6000 years ago...what is the problem with Christians accepting this? Why the debate? There is no controversy or contridiction within the History of mankind or Civlization timeline. I say to Christians accept Creation as the Bible says and move on to more important issues to discuss like The Gospel/Salvation.In this case I would agree but there are other bad translations in the KJV.
Yeah, well I’m bad at math. Really bad. So the world CAN be young?Time is flexible, something can appear old when it's actually Young something can appear Young when it's actually old. It depends on your point of view.
He did the math.
Universe can be young and so can the EarthYeah, well I’m bad at math. Really bad. So the world CAN be young?
He did the math for you it's in the paperUniverse can be young and so can the Earth
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