How many years ago?

[Rusticus]

Having read the rules for posting here I assume I am allowed to ask questions (but not debate). Should that not be so, please move this to where-ever...

Is there consensus amongst the Christians who interpret Genesis literally as to how long ago Creation took place? If yes, when was it?

And, is there consensus amongst the Christians who interpret Genesis literally as to how long ago The Flood took place? If yes, when was it?


Thanks.

 

[shernren]

From what I've seen ... nope, and nope. You'll have to be more specific about what you want. Both YECs and OECs believe that they interpret scripture literally (and that the other -EC doesn't, mostly, lol) so which do you want? A typical OEC viewpoint will be that Creation took place at the same time that conventional science says - 13 odd billion years ago for the universe and 5 odd billion years ago for the earth - and that there was no global flood. And yes I think this is the right thread for it.

 

[vossler]

Consensus among Christians? What's that?

Contrary to what my friend shrenren would lead you to believe, most YECs would state they believe the earth to be about 6,000 years old. That's what I believe but I'm also willing to accept a couple of thousand year addition to that number. I'm not glued to that number; if credible evidence were discovered that said the earth was 9,000 years old I wouldn't have a problem with it. The bottom line line will always be; does it comply with God's written Word.

As for the flood, well I was just looking at a timeline of human history last night. I would say it took place approx. 4500 years ago. This too isn't critically important, what is important is that the timeline corresponds with Scripture.

O.K., so why are you asking the question?

 

[keyarch]

Having read the rules for posting here I assume I am allowed to ask questions (but not debate). Should that not be so, please move this to where-ever...

Is there consensus amongst the Christians who interpret Genesis literally as to how long ago Creation took place? If yes, when was it?

And, is there consensus amongst the Christians who interpret Genesis literally as to how long ago The Flood took place? If yes, when was it?

Thanks.

There is probably a consensus that there is no consensus.

I interpret Genesis 1 literally and believe in the following timeline.

1. God created the Universe and the unfinished planet Earth some time before the “creation week”. There is no statement as to if that occurred all at once or was an ongoing process from eternity.

2. The “creation week” was appx. 6,118 years ago as determined by the genealogies and historical records. This could vary by up to a year for each generation listed. The creation week started with God's light and each day was a literal 24 hour day.

3. The global flood was appx. 1656 years after the “creation week”, which was about 4462 years ago.

I have an outline that I put together from different resources at:
www.genesistruth.org/documents/Adam_to_Jacob.pdf

 

[shernren]

Contrary to what my friend shrenren would lead you to believe, most YECs would state they believe the earth to be about 6,000 years old. That's what I believe but I'm also willing to accept a couple of thousand year addition to that number. I'm not glued to that number; if credible evidence were discovered that said the earth was 9,000 years old I wouldn't have a problem with it. The bottom line line will always be; does it comply with God's written Word.

As for the flood, well I was just looking at a timeline of human history last night. I would say it took place approx. 4500 years ago. This too isn't critically important, what is important is that the timeline corresponds with Scripture.

I'm assuming that you're basing this off the genealogies of Genesis, right? Well why is there so much wiggle room? Plus or minus 3,000 years off a base value of 6,000 years is a lot of uncertainty. When I look at the genealogies of Genesis, there isn't much room to insert theoretical unmentioned intermediaries if one takes a literal approach to it. (Or is there another way to get the wiggle room? I don't know.)

 

[breathingforJC]

I don't care how old the earth is really, just looking at the facts that come out to be true I think I would be safe to say under 10,000 years. millions or billions is out of the question. Not even math says its possible, unless we picked up the moon in the last 8,000 (give or take) years or under.

 

[Rusticus]

O.K., so why are you asking the question?

Whilst on this forum I have formed the opinion that many (most) creationists put the age at 6000-odd.
I would like my opinions to correspond fairly closely to reality, and so I thought I would ask what their views on that actually are, rather than just assume....

I would like to give a little bit more time for more answers to come in (hopefully). Then (depending on what answers there are) I might have one or two supplementary questions.

 

[Remus]

Is there consensus amongst the Christians who interpret Genesis literally as to how long ago Creation took place? If yes, when was it?

And, is there consensus amongst the Christians who interpret Genesis literally as to how long ago The Flood took place? If yes, when was it?

From what I've seen, there is a consensus among YEC's on these dates. By my calculations, I put creation around 4165BC and the flood around 2509BC. And like vossler mentioned, there is some room for error.

 

[vossler]

I'm assuming that you're basing this off the genealogies of Genesis, right? Well why is there so much wiggle room? Plus or minus 3,000 years off a base value of 6,000 years is a lot of uncertainty. When I look at the genealogies of Genesis, there isn't much room to insert theoretical unmentioned intermediaries if one takes a literal approach to it. (Or is there another way to get the wiggle room? I don't know.)

First of all it's not a plus or minus 3,000, just a plus. Secondly, I'm probably being too generous with the 3,000 year figure, but I'm trying to allow for possibilities I may have not yet considered. The bottom line here is that whether it is 6,000 or 9,000 it cannot change written Scripture.

To be perfectly honest, other than what Scripture tells me and the analysis of people like Ussher, I'm not certain of how long we've been here. I give a little leeway only because the Bible isn't very specific as too how long we've been here without going through a rather impercise analysis. Most importantly, whether the analysis says the earth is 6,000 years old or 9,000 it doesn't change any basic tenets of Scripture; that's the most important thing.

 

[shernren]

As far as I know, YECs typically put it at between 6,000 to 10,000, or at least AiG does. No point asking why, eh. Where does the wiggle room come from? Unless the Bible isn't telling us something.

 

[mixin machine]

As far as I know, YECs typically put it at between 6,000 to 10,000, or at least AiG does. No point asking why, eh. Where does the wiggle room come from? Unless the Bible isn't telling us something.

I wonder how much wiggle room an evolutionist gives themself .......

Andrew

 

[Critias]

Having read the rules for posting here I assume I am allowed to ask questions (but not debate). Should that not be so, please move this to where-ever...

Is there consensus amongst the Christians who interpret Genesis literally as to how long ago Creation took place? If yes, when was it?

And, is there consensus amongst the Christians who interpret Genesis literally as to how long ago The Flood took place? If yes, when was it?


Thanks.

No one truly knows. Many can speculate, but the fact is, no one has an exact date.

In my studies, I would lean towards the earth being slightly less than 6000 years old. But, that is just me, and I can be completely off my rocker.

 

[KerrMetric]

In my studies, I would lean towards the earth being slightly less than 6000 years old. But, that is just me, and I can be completely off my rocker.

You might want to commune with dead cave painters from 40,000 years ago and inform them they were painting on French caves 34,000 years before the caves existed, LOL.

 

[Rusticus]

Thanks for the answers.
So we have figures from just under 6000 years to maybe 9000 years.

It seems to me that "keyarch" has done a lot of work on the subject (thanks for the link, btw), so for the purpose of my supplementary question, we'll go with the figure of 6118 years, if we may:

On October 4th, 2005 was Jewish New Year. The start of year 5766.
The Jewish calendar started (so say the Jews) on the day Adam was created, the 6th day of creation.
(Most Jews I know don't believe in the literal creation account, btw, but that is a different matter, and does not affect my question.)

So, here is the question: Has anyone done the research to determine why the Jews and the Christians come up with a different number? (Is it just a matter of counting differently, or are two completely different methods used, or is there another reason?).

I would like to stress that I am not asking "which is correct". Maybe they are both correct, or maybe they are both wrong, who knows. I am just curious to know if any work was ever done to try to find out why the numbers differ.

 

[Remus]

So, here is the question: Has anyone done the research to determine why the Jews and the Christians come up with a different number? (Is it just a matter of counting differently, or are two completely different methods used, or is there another reason?).

I don't remember the details, but it was something like them using a different 'anchor' date than I used.

 

[Remus]

As far as I know, YECs typically put it at between 6,000 to 10,000, or at least AiG does. No point asking why, eh. Where does the wiggle room come from? Unless the Bible isn't telling us something.

The "wiggle room" comes from several places. One is due to the fact that the genealogies and the reigns of the kings are given in whole years and it’s not clear how partial years are counted for the most part. Others come from parts that are vague. For example, we don't know for sure how old Terah was when Abraham was born. It could be that he was either 70 or 130. Another is that it's not clear how old Noah was when Shem was born, but there's only room for 2 years here. There are other areas, but I think this should give you the idea.

Additionally, all of these dates are counted back from a commonly accepted date in more recent history. If this date is wrong, then so is the date of creation.

 

[Critias]

You might want to commune with dead cave painters from 40,000 years ago and inform them they were painting on French caves 34,000 years before the caves existed, LOL.

It always seems there will be one to poke fun and people who think differently then they.

 

[Critias]

Thanks for the answers.
So we have figures from just under 6000 years to maybe 9000 years.

It seems to me that "keyarch" has done a lot of work on the subject (thanks for the link, btw), so for the purpose of my supplementary question, we'll go with the figure of 6118 years, if we may:

On October 4th, 2005 was Jewish New Year. The start of year 5766.
The Jewish calendar started (so say the Jews) on the day Adam was created, the 6th day of creation.
(Most Jews I know don't believe in the literal creation account, btw, but that is a different matter, and does not affect my question.)

So, here is the question: Has anyone done the research to determine why the Jews and the Christians come up with a different number? (Is it just a matter of counting differently, or are two completely different methods used, or is there another reason?).

I would like to stress that I am not asking "which is correct". Maybe they are both correct, or maybe they are both wrong, who knows. I am just curious to know if any work was ever done to try to find out why the numbers differ.

Are you admitting that the Jews believe a "real" Adam existed...

 

[Rusticus]

Are you admitting that the Jews believe a "real" Adam existed...

You seem to have overlooked that I said: "....Most Jews I know don't believe in the literal creation account, btw, but that is a different matter, and does not affect my question....."

What Jews believe is a matter for them, not something for me to "admit" or "deny".

 

[shernren]

The "wiggle room" comes from several places. One is due to the fact that the genealogies and the reigns of the kings are given in whole years and it’s not clear how partial years are counted for the most part. Others come from parts that are vague. For example, we don't know for sure how old Terah was when Abraham was born. It could be that he was either 70 or 130. Another is that it's not clear how old Noah was when Shem was born, but there's only room for 2 years here. There are other areas, but I think this should give you the idea.

Additionally, all of these dates are counted back from a commonly accepted date in more recent history. If this date is wrong, then so is the date of creation.

About the genealogies: I see your point. But can I confirm something: some creationists have said that there are missing people in the genealogies, i.e. that "Adam fathered Seth", say, really meant "Adam was an ancestor of Seth" ... is that a mainstream view or not? Also I don't think we can account for more than, say, 500 years at the max with that. But it's a start.

Which common dates do creationists use? The ones that come easily off the top of my head are:

1. Dates during the reign of Kings David and Solomon, if evidence of their kingdom from other nations they traded with can be reliably dated.
2. Exile dates, since there is again quite substantial historical evidence of the Assyrian and Babylonian civilizations.

Any others?