How many times ARE we to pray?

[cableguy]

Hello all,

This may have come up before, as a matter of fact there was a recent pole on this very subject...I just couln't for the life of me find the thread.

Okay, here's my question to my more veteren Lutheran brothers and sisters. I picked up a book entitled "Basic Luther" the other day. In the last book, one of the most important of course, the small catechism, states that we must pray, with the Lords Prayer in most cases, many times a day. Heck, dinner prayer not only has a three part prayer, but a prayer of thanksgiving afterward.

I've started, slowly I might add, to incorperate this in my family. Slow because to go from almost no prayer to a very strong prayer scheduale is to much for my family to handle, so I'm doing it in baby steps. Anyway, does anyone out there follow that model? I'm interested in knowing if what Luther states about praying is followed to the letter, or if others have a differnt take on it. Thanks.

 

[RedneckAnglican]

"Pray without ceasing"- Paul...

I pray about 2-3 times a day...most of the time I do follow Luther's morning pray in the mornings, but through out the day I say my own prayers...

 

[pmcleanj]

Well, obviously I don't follow Luther to the letter. But my household does pray formally, many times a day: on waking up, at breakfast, lunch, snacks, and dinner, and upon going to bed. Our Morning and Evening prayer are adapted from Cranmer's Daily Office and so include one or more of the Canticles, Collects, and Scripture appointed for the Office and the Lord's Prayer. Mealtime prayers vary with the meal, with the Collect of the Day at dinnertime on special observances.

I don't know if that helps at all, given that I'm not Lutheran. In contrast, even the most observant of our acquaintances at church (and we attend a Lutheran church) think we're a bit overboard in our prayer practices.

 

[SPALATIN]

Well, obviously I don't follow Luther to the letter. But my household does pray formally, many times a day: on waking up, at breakfast, lunch, snacks, and dinner, and upon going to bed. Our Morning and Evening prayer are adapted from Cranmer's Daily Office and so include one or more of the Canticles, Collects, and Scripture appointed for the Office and the Lord's Prayer. Mealtime prayers vary with the meal, with the Collect of the Day at dinnertime on special observances.

I don't know if that helps at all, given that I'm not Lutheran. In contrast, even the most observant of our acquaintances at church (and we attend a Lutheran church) think we're a bit overboard in our prayer practices.

Cranmer was a Luther scholar and considered the theology to be the best.

 

[Xpycoctomos]

There was a clever little saying that I forget exactly how it goes but it;s like: what's the difference between the Muslim rule of prayer and the Christian rule of prayer?

Muslims are to prayer five times during the day;
Christians are to pray only two times a day: at set times and all the time

 

[KagomeShuko]

Yep, "Pray without ceasing." I'm always saying some type of prayer in my mind/talking to God. Then, sometimes, I'll say set prayers. . . ususally meal times and before bed - Before going to bed I usually say the Lord's Prayer, the Apostle's Creed, "now I lay me down to sleep," and I pray for others and my needs, too.

Stein Auf!
Bridget

 

[Melethiel]

We have family prayer in the morning right after waking up (not formal), and I do my own formal prayer before going to sleep. And of course, the "pray unceasingly" bit.

 

[SPALATIN]

Prayer is important. Books like Lutheran book of Prayer teach us how we should pray. Too often when I hear someone pray that is from the Baptist or other American Evangelical church their prayers are all over the place. As was noted above we must pray unceasingly.

 

[cableguy]

Thanks guys, very constructive.

 

[GreekWeasel]

There was a clever little saying that I forget exactly how it goes but it;s like: what's the difference between the Muslim rule of prayer and the Christian rule of prayer?

Muslims are to prayer five times during the day;
Christians are to pray only two times a day: at set times and all the time

Another difference is that Christians pray to the one true God!


GW

 

[LilLamb219]

How many times ARE we to pray?

I can easily see this as being a legalistic issue outside of Lutheranism.

It's not that we're forced to pray a certain amount of times or God will not love us, it's just that we, as His children, know that we can turn to Him in good times or bad, or just to talk Prayer is our way of talking to Him or even reiterating things He has said to us. Prayer is worship. By praying we hope that we aren't asking God to conform to our will, but that our prayers are in line with His will.

 

[KagomeShuko]

I can easily see this as being a legalistic issue outside of Lutheranism.

It's not that we're forced to pray a certain amount of times or God will not love us, it's just that we, as His children, know that we can turn to Him in good times or bad, or just to talk Prayer is our way of talking to Him or even reiterating things He has said to us. Prayer is worship. By praying we hope that we aren't asking God to conform to our will, but that our prayers are in line with His will.

I agree with this as well. .if there are definitely set times, then it becomes legalistic. . .the answer I put was just when I myself happen to pray and my normal habits, though, sometimes they are broken, too . . .

Stein Auf!
Bridget

 

[LilLamb219]

I hope you didn't think my post was aimed at you?

It wasn't aimed at anyone here at the board here at all. I've come across a lot of non-Lutherans on the web who feel very guilty about not praying enough and actually thinking their prayers turns God's will around

I pretty much like to "talk" to God at various times during the day whenever something comes up whether it's a problem I'm having or rejoicing about something wonderful I do a nightly prayer if I don't fall asleep first asking for protection of my household and thanking Him for the day, oh, and also asking (when I remember) for Him to increase our faith

 

[Xpycoctomos]

Not that I think it is always true, I like what CS Lewis once said: "I pray not to change God, but rather to change myself". There's a good chunk of truth to that. But, I still think our prayers somehow, mysteriously, CAN effect the outcome of situations. I guess I think this because of some OT stories like Abraham pleading with God not to destroy S and G and He would say "Im going to do it" and then Abraham actually bargained with God. It's interesting.

 

[ByzantineDixie]

Not that I think it is always true, I like what CS Lewis once said: "I pray not to change God, but rather to change myself". There's a good chunk of truth to that. But, I still think our prayers somehow, mysteriously, CAN effect the outcome of situations.

I completely agree with this.

But it's a delicate balance. Some people get carried away with the understanding that God answers our prayers and start piling conditions on how and when and why God answers our prayers and all of a sudden prayer becomes something akin to us being puppet masters and God being the puppet.

My sister-in-law is in spiritual crisis because she believes if her faith is strong enough God will give her what she asks for. Well, there was an illness in her family and she did not get the healing she asked for and her conclusion was her faith was not strong enough. I can't tell you how much junk is out there on how to pray "just right" to get what you want.

 

[GreekWeasel]

Not that I think it is always true, I like what CS Lewis once said: "I pray not to change God, but rather to change myself". There's a good chunk of truth to that. But, I still think our prayers somehow, mysteriously, CAN effect the outcome of situations.

Do we, as sinful human beings, change the will of God? The third petition of the Lord's Prayer: "Thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. What does this mean? The good and gracious will of God is done even without our prayer, but we pray in this petition that it may be done among us also."

Does our praying about something mean that God is going to do it? Or maybe it's if we don't pray, then God won't do it "among us also" because refusal to pray is a sign of unbelief.

But at the same time, God gives us many blessings even without our prayer, without our asking for it. In any case, His will will be done.


GW

 

[GreekWeasel]

I can't tell you how much junk is out there on how to pray "just right" to get what you want.

Can you say "Jabez"?

 

[Flipper]

God answers all prayers. Sometimes the answer is "no." Sometimes that answer is "not now." Trying to figure out why He answered what He answered, at the time He answered, will give you a headache. For me, sometimes it will be years before I understand why He answered as He did, but the understanding does come.

 

[KagomeShuko]

Not that I think it is always true, I like what CS Lewis once said: "I pray not to change God, but rather to change myself". There's a good chunk of truth to that. But, I still think our prayers somehow, mysteriously, CAN effect the outcome of situations. I guess I think this because of some OT stories like Abraham pleading with God not to destroy S and G and He would say "Im going to do it" and then Abraham actually bargained with God. It's interesting.

We cannot change God or the will of God. However, God hears all of our prayers. We can't say how God works and we don't know exactly how prayers work with God, either. We can just the comfort of knowing that God hears our wants, needs, desires, and thanks. It's all up to God, how our lives and things in our lives are handled. It's not for us to understand.

Stein Auf!
Bridget

 

[LilLamb219]

But, I still think our prayers somehow, mysteriously, CAN effect the outcome of situations. I guess I think this because of some OT stories like Abraham pleading with God not to destroy S and G and He would say "Im going to do it" and then Abraham actually bargained with God. It's interesting.

I don't agree that Abraham actually convinced God, but that God gave Abraham a chance to try to help his fellowman, but to then see that God WAS actually being a just God in the consequences that followed. God's hestitation to take immediate action wasn't for the people who died, but was a benefit for Abraham and His faith.

In a way it reminds me of the part in the New Testament where Jesus is encouraging the woman who gives the "crumbs" response. Our God doesn't always show us things immediately, but uses experiences as teaching moments.