How many points of TULIP must you believe to be considered Reformed?

bigsierra · Jul 24, 2004

T
U
L
I
P
Some combination of 2
Some combination of 3
Some combination of 4
All 5 and no less
You must believe all 5 plus other Reformed doctrine (eg. Westminster Confession of Faith)

Doh, If you wanted to say one point, and don't have that as an option just pick one of the TULIP and mention it in your post that any of the 5 will work. I was just guessing that if anyone said just one of the 5 was necessary, they would have one in mind, that sets Reformed doctrine apart.

BallRmDChamp · Jul 24, 2004

I went with 5 pt. +
A lot of Baptists call themselves "Reformed" because they hold to 5 pt. sovereign grace soteriology, but they reject infant baptism, are usually dispensationalists with no conception of the Regulative Principle, so in my view they don't technically qualify.

JM · Jul 24, 2004

You have to be 'Reformed' to be Reformed in theology. What you listed is only a part of Reformed theology (anthropology and soteriology include: doctrines of election, predestination, humanity's plight, and the origin and cause of Christ's redemptive mercies), called 'Doctrines of Grace' by those who believe in them and 'calvinism' by those who don't.

http://www.fivesolas.com/reform_r.htm

Hope this helps, God bless.

PS: I agree 100% with what the Bible teaches, PURE GRACE!

MKalashnikov · Jul 25, 2004

I went with 5 pt. +
A lot of Baptists call themselves "Reformed" because they hold to 5 pt. sovereign grace soteriology, but they reject infant baptism, are usually dispensationalists with no conception of the Regulative Principle, so in my view they don't technically qualify.

Most Reformed Baptists are NOT Dispensationalists.

cygnusx1 · Jul 25, 2004

It's so difficult to vote, I know a really good Reformed author and speaker Bruce Ware, he even shared a debate With Dr.Schreiner aginst 2 Arminians, Bruce Ware doesn't believe in Limited Atonement but Dr Schreiner does.
Incidently if you want this debate it is still available, and it does shine forth new problems, arguements etc, I just found it really refreshing.

I think even holding to once saved always saved is highly inconsistent for an Arminian,because it goes against his notion of Free-will....see Dave Hunt
The irony is that even Dave Hunt was attacked on-line for believing in the Final perseverance of the Saints!

I think perhaps a notion of Reformed, needs to be carefully analysed.
I myself hold many teachings straight from Calvin himself....God's desire for everyone to be saved, even the Reprobate, and yet many "reformed" don't accept that!

I am not big on Dispensationalism,some have about 50 dispensations,I see 2, some see about 10 covenants , again I see 2.

So what exactly is Reformed?

CSMR · Jul 25, 2004

If it's just the five points then Luther was reformed, which is a bit odd if reformed means Calvinist.

Bulldog · Jul 25, 2004

Most Reformed Baptists are NOT Dispensationalists.

Yep, most I've seen are either historic premil or amil.

If it's just the five points then Luther was reformed, which is a bit odd if reformed means Calvinist.

Luther changed his views on thedoctrines of grace later on in his life, he was more of a Cavlinist when he was influenced by Augustin'es writings.

Or so the Lutherans tell me.

Believing in the five points of Calvinism does not make one Reformed. One is Reformed by Reformed theology, which included such things as ecclesiology, sacramentology, etc, not jus soteirology. (which is what he five points are)

cygnusx1 · Jul 25, 2004

Bulldog said:
Yep, most I've seen are either historic premil or amil.

Luther changed his views on thedoctrines of grace later on in his life, he was more of a Cavlinist when he was influenced by Augustin'es writings.

Or so the Lutherans tell me.

Believing in the five points of Calvinism does not make one Reformed. One is Reformed by Reformed theology, which included such things as ecclesiology, sacramentology, etc, not jus soteirology. (which is what he five points are)

In which case I am not Reformed, neither are many Baptist Calvinists......

But there again many "reformed people" deny Calvin on God's will , desire to save the reprobate.......

rmwilliamsll · Jul 25, 2004

You ask a good question and one i think is impossible to answer.
For the Truely Reformed® you would divide over supra vs infra lapasarianism and the particulars of common grace. You would be sure your pastor's spoke Dutch as well as Greek, Hebrew, and Latin.

for the rest of us mere mortals who seem doomed to live in the real world, we accept that there are levels of understanding and that after the simple understanding of the Gospel fundamentals the rest is important but not-essential. The simple understanding of the Gospel includes all 5 points in soteriology, the right understanding of communion, but probably does not include infant baptism or a strictly believer's church. So that there are no Lutheran Reformed(since Luther), but there are Reformed Baptists.

essentially the division occurs somewhere(about 1/2 way) in Book IV of Institutes, but not in Book III. *grin*

BallRmDChamp · Jul 25, 2004

dittomonkey911 said:
Most Reformed Baptists are NOT Dispensationalists.

I thought we already established there are no Reformed Baptists. It's a contradiction in terms. Let's just call them Sovereign Grace Baptists or SGB's for short

Bulldog said:
Believing in the five points of Calvinism does not make one Reformed. One is Reformed by Reformed theology, which included such things as ecclesiology, sacramentology, etc, not jus soteirology. (which is what he five points are)

Yeah, that's right. Well said!

Lotar · Jul 26, 2004

Bulldog said:
Or so the Lutherans tell me.

Not really

Ken · Jul 29, 2004

BallRm, you said no Baptists have a "conception of the Regulative Principle"... well I am a Reformed or Sovereign Grace Baptist, and I have a conception of the Regulative Principle... so I must be ok then ehhh?? As you probably know, however, not even all Presbyterians adhere to the Regulative Principle, so are they not to considered Reformed?

Irishcat922 · Jul 31, 2004

I voted 5 points, but I think the concept of being reformed is just what our forum suggests "Semper Reformanda" Always reforming. I need to examine my personal convictions, beliefs, traditions, under the microscope of the word of God. If any of those points vary from the teaching of scripture I have to reform my thinking. Let God be true and every man a liar. Rom. 3:4

blessedbe · Jul 31, 2004

uhhhhmmm new calvinist here....what is Regulative Principle?? Sorry if I'm being totally ignorant, but most of you know, I found this room sort of by accident and realized that the Calvinists beliefs were extremely close to what I had developed quite on my own with personal study of the bible, so I really don't have any "education" in this.

I have gone to a few websites and read up on TULIP and the like, but don't have any real knowledge yet.....haven't gotten to the bookstore to pick up some of the reading that's been suggested....

winters · Aug 1, 2004

Here you go Blessedbe, http://www.reformed.com/pub/sola.htm

Irishcat922 · Aug 1, 2004

The regulative principle in a nutshell is the doctrine that everything in the church is regulated by Scripture. I personally feel that the regulative principle for the Christian should apply to every aspect of life.

blessedbe · Aug 1, 2004

Ok, I think I see, thanks for the link Winters. Good read, although not an easy one! LOL

I can see the advantages to this, and I think I agree with it. My question is how do you know if your church is following this if they are not a "reformed" church. I go to a non-denominational church,and it seems as if they follow this rule. Although I wonder how many would agree. We sing praise and worship music instead of hymnals. We have a lot of video type things going on. We have a team that puts together videos that are pertanent to the series our pastor is talking on. Not all the time, but sometimes. We have also had skits performed, etc etc. Now, I'm pretty sensitive to the issue of losing the 'meat' of worship to "reach the masses" if you know what I mean. I really don't like the idea of 'watering down' the scriptures to make it more appealing to the 'modern folk', and I especially don't like the idea of being 'liberal' in church. One thing I like about this church is that the Pastors and staff do a great job in making things relevant to 'today' without watering down the truth.
Now, I guess my question is whether or not you consider that using the "regulative principle" in church?? I see nothing taught that cannot be found directly in scripture, and our pastor very very rarely uses anything outside of the Bible in his sermons....yet it's done in a highly creative manner......

caitlincares · Aug 1, 2004

winters said:
Here you go Blessedbe, http://www.reformed.com/pub/sola.htm

Thanks for that link as well.
I also am new to learning about being "Reformed".

winters · Aug 1, 2004

No problem, glad to help.

Cajun Huguenot · Aug 18, 2004

Holding to all five points makes you a Calvinist. Being Reformed (IMHO) includes covenant theology, and this means holding to paedo-baptism.

Kenith

How many points of TULIP must you believe to be considered Reformed?

How many points of TULIP must you believe to be considered Reformed?

T

U

L

I

P

Some combination of 2

Some combination of 3

Some combination of 4

All 5 and no less

All 5 plus other aspects of Reformed doctrine

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