How many of you creationists...

OldStyleBlues said:

Umm Skunks? Camels? Zebras? Three toed tree sloths? Piggies. Peacocks? Stink Bugs? Baboons? Cause if I had an ark, I'd make sure that those amimals were a priority.

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No stink bugs allowed on the ark. Sorry.

Wiccan_Child said:

Vegetable rafts . But then, Noah took unclean animals with him as well:

"Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah." -Genesis 7:8-9

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Doi. Fair enough

AV1611VET said:

Their "kinds" boarded:

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How did Noah manage to get their "kinds" from the other side of the planet onto the Ark? Did he arrange a shuttle?

The Lady Kate said:

Or... the Bible used primative terminology because it was primative.



Have you taken into account that you don't think "all ages of time" is going to last more than a generation or two?



Granted... but even Jesus said that his message was never meant to be understood by everyone... that's why he spoke in parables.



Accomplishing that which Jesus himself went through great lengths not to do.

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Excellent point.

Cabal said:

Doi. Fair enough

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My exegesis is stronger than yours .

loveiseverywhere said:

How did Noah manage to get their "kinds" from the other side of the planet onto the Ark? Did he arrange a shuttle?

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i heard on the radio one time that the sons of noah rode about on winged dinosaurs, and got stuff like the brazilian forest mouse, tuatara and moa from new zealand, the sumatran rhino etc.

Hespera said:

i heard on the radio one time that the sons of noah rode about on winged dinosaurs, and got stuff like the brazilian forest mouse, tuatara and moa from new zealand, the sumatran rhino etc.

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Or maybe Noah just used little spheres like in the movie The Day the Earth Stood Still....

loveiseverywhere said:

How did Noah manage to get their "kinds" from the other side of the planet onto the Ark?

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God handled that, Himself --- and as far as "the other side of the planet" is concerned, the earth consisted of one giant supercontinent at that time.

Called 'Pangaea' by the Greeks (?) --- and 'Eden' in the Bible.

Wiccan_Child said:

My exegesis is stronger than yours .

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Of one verse, although let's not check to see how many verses you know better than me

AV1611VET said:

God handled that, Himself --- and as far as "the other side of the planet" is concerned, the earth consisted of one giant supercontinent at that time.

Called 'Pangaea' by the Greeks (?) --- and 'Eden' in the Bible.

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Saying "God handled that" is not a scientific explanation. That's like saying that plants are green because God made them that way when in truth they are green because plants absorb the blue and red spectrum and the green passes through, therefore they appear green to us.

Even if your explanation were true, which I doubt, how did Noah clean up after all these animals? They would have lived in an ark with animal feces piling up all over the place. Or did they just throw it overboard?
4. Caring for the Animals

Special diets. Many animals, especially insects, require special diets. Koalas, for example, require eucalyptus leaves, and silkworms eat nothing but mulberry leaves. For thousands of plant species (perhaps even most plants), there is at least one animal that eats only that one kind of plant. How did Noah gather all those plants aboard, and where did he put them?
Other animals are strict carnivores, and some of those specialize on certain kinds of foods, such as small mammals, insects, fish, or aquatic invertebrates. How did Noah determine and provide for all those special diets?
Fresh foods. Many animals require their food to be fresh. Many snakes, for example, will eat only live foods (or at least warm and moving). Parasitoid wasps only attack living prey. Most spiders locate their prey by the vibrations it produces. [Foelix, 1996] Most herbivorous insects require fresh food. Aphids, in fact, are physically incapable of sucking from wilted leaves. How did Noah keep all these food supplies fresh?
Food preservation/Pest control. Food spoilage is a major concern on long voyages; it was especially thus before the inventions of canning and refrigeration. The large quantities of food aboard would have invited infestations of any of hundreds of stored product pests (especially since all of those pests would have been aboard), and the humidity one would expect aboard the Ark would have provided an ideal environment for molds. How did Noah keep pests from consuming most of the food?
Ventilation. The ark would need to be well ventilated to disperse the heat, humidity, and waste products (including methane, carbon dioxide, and ammonia) from the many thousands of animals which were crowded aboard. Woodmorappe (pp. 37-42) interprets Genesis 6:16 to mean there was an 18-inch opening all around the top, and says that this, with slight breezes, would have been enough to provide adequate ventilation. However, the ark was divided into separate rooms and decks (Gen. 6:14,16). How was fresh air circulated throughout the structure?
Sanitation. The ungulates alone would have produced tons of manure a day. The waste on the lowest deck at least (and possibly the middle deck) could not simply be pushed overboard, since the deck was below the water line; the waste would have to be carried up a deck or two. Vermicomposting could reduce the rate of waste accumulation, but it requires maintenance of its own. How did such a small crew dispose of so much waste?
Exercise/Animal handling. The animals aboard the ark would have been in very poor shape unless they got regular exercise. (Imagine if you had to stay in an area the size of a closet for a year.) How were several thousand diverse kinds of animals exercised regularly?
Manpower for feeding, watering, etc. How did a crew of eight manage a menagerie larger and more diverse than that found in zoos requiring many times that many employees? Woodmorappe claims that eight people could care for 16000 animals, but he makes many unrealistic and invalid assumptions. Here are a few things he didn't take into account:

• Feeding the animals would take much longer if the food was in containers to protect it from pests.
• Many animals would have to be hand-fed.
• Watering several animals at once via troughs would not work aboard a ship. The water would be sloshed out by the ship's roll.
• Many animals, in such an artificial environment, would have required additional special care. For example, all of the hoofed animals would need to have their hooves trimmed several times during the year. [Batten, 1976, pp. 39-42]
• Not all manure could be simply pushed overboard; a third of it at least would have to be carried up at least one deck.
• Corpses of the dead animals would have to be removed regularly.
• Animals can't be expected to run laps and return to their cages without a lot of human supervision.

For your reading pleasure: http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/faq-noahs-ark.html

loveiseverywhere said:

Even if your explanation were true, which I doubt, how did Noah clean up after all these animals? They would have lived in an ark with animal feces piling up all over the place. Or did they just throw it overboard?

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I have a whole thread on this --- you'll want to start about here: 40.

AV1611VET said:

I have a whole thread on this --- you'll want to start about here: 40.

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I'm not going to waste my time reading through unscientific responses such as, "God did it."

On one hand you claim that God is the author of science, yet on the other hand you try your very best to debunk that very same science, thereby discrediting it's very author.

You will be glad you didn't read it.

It involves putting the water on one of the planets if I remember... a warning to angels entering out solar system was it?

What I want to know is a banana still the Atheists nightmare?

MoonLancer said:

You will be glad you didn't read it.

It involves putting the water on one of the planets if I remember... a warning to angels entering out solar system was it?

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"You cant make this stuff up!"


hmmm

OldStyleBlues said:

What I want to know is a banana still the Atheists nightmare?

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Note that the banana:

1. Is shaped for human hand
2. Has non-slip surface
3. Has outward indicators of inward content:
   Green-too early,
   Yellow-just right,
   Black-too late.
4. Has a tab for removal of wrapper
5. Is perforated on wrapper
6. Bio-degradable wrapper
7. Is shaped for human mouth
8. Has a point at top for ease of entry
9. Is pleasing to taste buds
10. Is curved towards the face to make eating process easy

To say that the banana happened by accident is even more unintelligent than to say that no one designed the Coca Cola can.




Point number 8 there is kinda creepy.

]Umm no. The banana that we eat today was domesticated between 5000 to 8000 years ago by inhabitants of Papua New Guinea. After thousands of years after farming and domestications the banana evolved. Google "Wild Banana" and you will see that they are hardly easily edible or user friendly.

OldStyleBlues said:

]Umm no. The banana that we eat today was domesticated between 5000 to 8000 years ago by inhabitants of Papua New Guinea. After thousands of years after farming and domestications the banana evolved. Google "Wild Banana" and you will see that they are hardly easily edible or user friendly.

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I am reading Dan Koeppels book, "Banana- The fate of the fruit that changed the word". Pretty interesting!

Your version is way simplified, but yes the domestic banana(s) are not that much like the wild varieties.

My point is that "the Atheists nightmare" is the result of mans actions not some magical being.

loveiseverywhere said:

I'm not going to waste my time reading through unscientific responses such as, "God did it."

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Fair enough --- it'll certainly simplify this conversation, won't it?

I'm not sure why you're here then, but I sure don't plan on letting you spread any Godless scientific rhetoric unchecked, either.