• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

How long to rebuild civilisation after an all out nuclear war?

greatcloudlives

Active Member
Dec 28, 2019
347
39
64
Oregon City
✟33,655.00
Country
United States
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
First of all let me save everyone from a lot of needless worry because the all out nuclear war everyone is talking about isn't going to happen. The United States has technical knowledge of how to stop nuclear missles from ever reaching the mainland. Russia loves there children too. They would have to be as insane as Hitler was to push the button on the missle launch system. So this whole discussion is pointless.
 
Upvote 0

eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
Dec 17, 2010
9,834
2,514
Sydney, Australia
Visit site
✟200,167.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Fine.
How's America dealing with the pandemic?
The collapse can also be from a super-virus - as per the novel Station 11 where 99% of the population are wiped out.

America goes from 330 million to 3.3 million in a month or so. People are struggling to eat.
Then what?
 
Upvote 0

FrumiousBandersnatch

Well-Known Member
Mar 20, 2009
15,405
8,144
✟356,992.00
Faith
Atheist
Apparently the most likely exchange scenario is thought to be system failure (hardware or communications) or human error. Many of the missile systems on both sides are old and in poor repair. I've heard some expert opinion (e.g. people who've worked with the systems) suggesing that we've been lucky so far.

Missile defence systems can only stop a percentage of incoming missiles; both sides assign MIRV targets based on their estimates of this percentage.
 
Reactions: Hans Blaster
Upvote 0

eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
Dec 17, 2010
9,834
2,514
Sydney, Australia
Visit site
✟200,167.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Exactly!
Also, no one forget the name Stanislav Petrov.
We owe this guy our current civilisation.
He stopped it happening.

Stanislav Petrov - Wikipedia
 
Upvote 0

eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
Dec 17, 2010
9,834
2,514
Sydney, Australia
Visit site
✟200,167.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Hey guys,
I thought I'd just ask what are your favourite collapse Sci-Fi novels? I like:-
1. Day of the Triffids &
2. The Chrysalids, both by John Wyndham.
3. "The Postman" by David Brin. It's a controversial choice as it was turned into a really b-grade movie (which I never saw for that reason) - but I just enjoyed the thoughts of the main character, a history teacher walking from village to village looking for something.
4. "The Road" Cormac McCarthy is more literature than sci-fi - it won the Pulitzer prize for fiction. But I warn you, it will break your heart. It is one of the bleakest post-nuclear things you'll ever read.
5. "Lucifer's Hammer" - Niven & Pournelle co-authorship. As usual for them, it's on a BIG canvas with lots of characters and points of view. A comet breaks up and parts hit the earth in the 1980's, so there's Cold War stuff as well.
6. "Footfall" an alien invasion novel by Niven & Pournelle again - with a great plot resolution I'll never forget!
MOVIES: "Book of Eli" and "Fury Road" - although I'm not sure this Mad Max movie actually is a movie, or is it more a weird modern art performance piece?
7. To finish it all off, back to Isaac Arthur's youtube essay on how quickly we could rebuild after an apocalypse - just to cheer us up again!
 
Reactions: Radagast
Upvote 0

Goonie

Not so Mystic Mog.
Site Supporter
Jun 13, 2015
10,439
10,024
48
UK
✟1,341,421.00
Country
United Kingdom
Gender
Male
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Single
If it's an all out nuclear war, humanity is gone. No coming back.
 
Upvote 0

Radagast

comes and goes
Site Supporter
Dec 10, 2003
23,896
9,865
✟344,561.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Single
Hey guys,
I thought I'd just ask what are your favourite collapse Sci-Fi novels?

Other novels (all set well after the collapse) include:
  • The Prince in Waiting trilogy by John Christopher
  • Damnation Alley by Roger Zelazny
  • A Canticle for Leibowitz by Walter M. Miller Jr. (my favourite)
 
Reactions: eclipsenow
Upvote 0

eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
Dec 17, 2010
9,834
2,514
Sydney, Australia
Visit site
✟200,167.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Other novels (all set well after the collapse) include:
  • The Prince in Waiting trilogy by John Christopher
  • Damnation Alley by Roger Zelazny
  • A Canticle for Leibowitz by Walter M. Miller Jr. (my favourite)
Cheers!
 
Upvote 0

eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
Dec 17, 2010
9,834
2,514
Sydney, Australia
Visit site
✟200,167.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Wood-gas
Wood gas could run agricultural zones and some cargo transport. It sounds crazy, but many cars during World War 2 were suddenly converted to running on wood. Well, more accurately, the wood is burned and the syn-gas fed through into the engine to burn the wood-gas. The wiki explains:-

Germany produced Gazogene units for vehicles including cars, trucks, artillery tractors and even tanks, to preserve the limited supplies of fuel.[1] Even in non-combatant countries, such as Sweden or Brazil, gasogene was popular, as oil became hard to obtain. In Brazil, a racer named Chico Landi won at São Paulo‘s Interlagos circuit in 1944, driving a wood gas-powered Alfa Romeo.[2]

If there was any doubt, America’s FEMA even have a manual on it for oil shortage emergencies. (And you can bet the government have wood gasifier kits in their survival bunkers.) During an oil shortage, most personal local transport would go back to cycling and rickshaws even some horse drawn carriages – for a while. But wood gasification could at least power farming and transport food to feed the nation.

Dirtier emergency fuels like coal-to-liquids might be used, which is not great from a climate point of view. But it might keep civilisation ticking over until other systems are up and running – like the emergency construction of electric trolley bus systems etc that might last longer.
 
Upvote 0

Brightmoon

Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.
Mar 2, 2018
6,297
5,539
NYC
✟166,950.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Episcopalian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Island in the Sea of Time. What happens to people if an entire small American island like Nantucket is transported back to BCE times. It was an interesting read because getting modern technology to work even with intact infrastructure was horribly hard without the knowledge to run it.
 
Upvote 0

eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
Dec 17, 2010
9,834
2,514
Sydney, Australia
Visit site
✟200,167.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Yes - that's my kind of Sci-Fi trip! I often wonder where we'd be by now if we went back to 100AD* and gave the Romans a dozen modern instruction manuals. You know, the top 10 tools to kick start the industrial revolution - but also a bunch of commandments on how to save the environment and ecosystems as well. Stuff like:-
  • The importance of reserving large intact ecosystems as national parks.
  • The importance of avoiding war and creating large trading blocks and super-states to protect everyone.
  • Germ theory and the importance of soap and washing your hands and face masks during pandemics.
  • The importance of public education and everyone being able to read all this extra knowledge!
  • How to build a large ship and get to New Zealand to save the giant Moa bird before the Polynesians arrive and drive them to extinction around 1300 AD - you know - stuff like that. Scientific principles, education, the best in public policy and medicare for all.
  • The wonders of designing intimate walkable townships around train stations, not car dependent suburbia.
  • How to use coal till they get to hydro and nuclear power - and the safest nuclear reactors and practices from the modern era.
  • How to build such an energy efficient civilisation that atmospheric CO2 doesn't go above 350ppm before they wean off coal onto hydro, nuclear, etc.
  • What else would you add?
Consider that the industrial revolution kicked off just over 200 years ago. If the Industrial Revolution kicked off in 100AD with not just the technical trickery but the public policy and wisdom we have from hindsight - where would they be by now? Would they have colonised the solar system? Would there already be a trillion people living in O'Neil cylinders? Would they have self-aware AI, fusion power, colonies around other stars?

(*Even in my speculative imaginings I don't want to interrupt the writing of the bible.)
 
Reactions: Ophiolite
Upvote 0

Brightmoon

Apes and humans are all in family Hominidae.
Mar 2, 2018
6,297
5,539
NYC
✟166,950.00
Country
United States
Gender
Female
Faith
Episcopalian
Marital Status
Single
Politics
US-Others
Something that would stop the emergence of rap artists, but ensure rhythym and blues.
that won’t happen , rap ( which I can’t stand either) comes out of poetry and storytelling traditions that’s very old . The ability to play with words is still prized within the African and Black American communities
 
Upvote 0

FrumiousBandersnatch

Well-Known Member
Mar 20, 2009
15,405
8,144
✟356,992.00
Faith
Atheist
It sounds good, but technology comes of age in its time; as an old cynic() I'd still put money on human nature making a mess of it - through selfishness, the will to power, false expertise, selective interpretation & understanding, tribalism, etc., etc. It might well be quicker and nastier than we've managed going the long route...
 
Upvote 0

eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
Dec 17, 2010
9,834
2,514
Sydney, Australia
Visit site
✟200,167.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Something that would stop the emergence of rap artists, but ensure rhythym and blues.
Ah but if they build up too quickly and nuke each other bad (the starting point of this thread) then we KNOW what the music from that era sounds like! It's awesome and portable - but not like an iPhone.
 
Upvote 0

dlamberth

Senior Contributor
Site Supporter
Oct 12, 2003
20,171
3,180
Oregon
✟942,858.00
Gender
Male
Faith
Other Religion
Politics
US-Others
In thinking about it, I don't know what civilization is. Are we today really civilized with our continuous wars with the capability to nuke the planet dead, millions of starving and even more with out a roof over their heads or no access to medical help, over population to where we have caused the 6th great extinction and so much more? Would we be better off not building up civilization again.
 
Upvote 0

eclipsenow

Scripture is God's word, Science is God's works
Dec 17, 2010
9,834
2,514
Sydney, Australia
Visit site
✟200,167.00
Country
Australia
Gender
Male
Faith
Anglican
Marital Status
Married
Having enlightened thoughts like that means you're part of a civilisation.
If you're not, you're often too busy just trying to survive the latest shift in the climate, migration patterns of animals, or whatever. Sure, some say the Australian Aboriginals in certain more abundant areas only worked 4 hours a day for food and had abundant time for family and friends. But on the other hand, we are close to getting a space industry and being able to build O'Neil Cylinders 8km wide and 32km long. Imagine an artificial ocean in space. Imagine being able to save the whales by having them in space or on a terraformed Mars! Now that's conservation - and all the benefits of modern medicine and agriculture and fine whiskies and fun shows like Star Wars and me being able to have this interesting conversation with you even though I'm thousands of km's away - that all makes civilisation seem worth it to me!
And the ultimate point of this thread is that even if we lost almost everything in an all out nuclear apocalypse, it wouldn't take long to build up again. We've learned things, and would have buried libraries that help us learn them again. It wouldn't take long.
 
Upvote 0