• Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.

How far is too far? (wait, there's a twist!)

hamster_head

Active Member
Nov 18, 2003
39
0
42
Fresno, CA
✟149.00
Faith
Non-Denom
I'll apologize because I know this is probably one of (if not) the most brought up topics in this section. But lately I've needed to re-evaluate my stance on this. I've read tons online and on forums, it's been my favorite religious subject for quite a few years...I'm pretty sure I've heard/read just about ever standard argument on this topic. So, what I'm asking for is not general opinions, what the bible says about the issue, suggesting to pray about it, ect. I want to know if anyone feels they just have an extremely unique and profound stance on the subject or may know a link to a place that does. I don't care if the opinion is that groping is okay, but only when using a large foam hand...the more bizzare and unique your theory the better (although obviously I want it to be a real opinion with real reasoning behind it).

Okay, thanks!
 

CDN Red Raider

Active Member
Apr 11, 2004
194
12
40
✟22,880.00
Faith
Christian
Here is an article I found:

4. Going Steady



When Peter and Susanna Marie determine not to date anyone

else, that is called ``going steady.'' This is more than saying,

``I don't want to date anyone else;'' it is a commitment not to.

This means they spend quite a bit of time together. Going steady

is really a time of determining compatibility for marriage, just

as conversation and friendship was a time of determining

eligibility. You'll want to make this determination very well,

and that means you'll need to spend plenty of time together.

Don't jump the gun and decide to get married after a week or two

of going steady. This is a 30-mile-per-hour zone.

When a couple first begins going steady, sometimes they feel

almost like they are married already. So I always advise that a

couple avoid a lot of holding hands and embracing at first. Let

the relationship develop before taking any action or giving any

gift that says ``commitment.'' On the marriage end of going

steady, of course, holding hands and embracing are more

appropriate expressions of commitment. Inexpensive gifts and

flowers are appropriate for couples going steady, but intimate

gifts should always be reserved for after the vows have been

made.

Now here are a couple of things going steady is not. If

Sarah Jane says, ``We've gone together for two years now. Sam

goes to school in Washington, and I go to school in Alaska,''

that is not going steady. They've probably seen each other only

rarely in those two years. All they can say honestly is that they

haven't gone out with anybody else in two years.

If Mary and Bruce both live in the same town, but he works

six twelve-hour days a week and they only get to see each other

on Friday nights, are they ready for marriage after two months?

Is that really ``going steady?'' All the time they've really had

on which to build their relationship is eight dates, hardly

enough to determine whether or not they are compatible and

whether they should commit themselves to a life-long

relationship.

Going steady means getting togetherin a group and alonevery

often, like every Monday, Wednesday, Thursday and all day on

Saturday and Sunday. After three or four months of that, a couple

might get to know one another quite well.



5. Considering Marriage



Step 5 should never precede Steps 1, 2, or 4. Nor should a

couple ever move on to Step 6 without passing Step 5. Considering

marriage is a small step, but it is essential in the dating

process. It is a conscious fading out of going steady into

preparing for engagement.

After going steady for a long time but before being engaged,

a couple must discuss issues that will be vital to a good

marriage. This is where Jim tells Michelle that he wants to have

eleven children, like his mother did. This is where Michelle lets

Jim know she's always wanted to get married in the spring. This

is where both Jim and Michelle know it's getting serious. This

really is the last opportunity either will have to disembark

gracefully before the plane races down the runway for takeoff.

During this time, a couple should feel comfortable holding

hands. And here's where our famous term controlled kissing comes

in. It means you remain totally in control of what you are doing.

While you are kissing, the other functions in your body don't

start going haywire. That's controlled kissing, and that is as

far as you should go before engagement.

This also is the time when you should frankly discuss any

past personal problems you have: prison records, diseases,

children born out of wedlock (especially if they are not living

with you and are not obvious to your potential spouse),

abortions, sterilization, barrenness, heavy indebtedness. It

would be absolutely unfair to save this kind of news until after

engagement.

Even things that seem like little quirks should be ironed

out at this time. If you're thinking, ``I really want to marry

him, but I hope he learns to quit combing his beard in public,''

now is the time to say itbut kindly, of course! While you've been

dating, you see, you've been putting your best foot, your best

clothes, your best eyes forward. You've bought new clothes, had

your hair done. It is a good image, really, but it is also

somewhat false. So sometime before engagement, you must allow the

real you to be exposed. It involves communication at a more

personal level.

``Do you know that when you eat, you chew with your mouth

open?'' says she.

``I do not,'' says he.

``Did you ever look at yourself while you're eating?'' says

she. ``See! Right there! You just did it again.'' She may add,

``You know, I've thought about it, and I don't believe I could

sit across from that for the next thirty years!''

Couples approaching engagement must learn to communicate as

they never have before. If this conversation took place after

marriage, the spouse might well ask, ``Why didn't you say

something about this before?'' These things should be

communicated before engagement and certainly before marriage.



6. Engagement



I believe in longer courtships and shorter engagements

(preferably ten to fifteen weeks). But engagements are a must for

a good marriage, for there is much to be done once a couple has

decided to tie the knot.

For one thing, the couple should spend a lot of time

discussing their plans for the future. They should engage in pre-

marital counseling with their pastor. They should reach

agreements on birth control, family goals, debt limits,

occupation, size of family and other things that are important to

each of them.

And then, there are preparations that must be made for the

wedding ceremony. These may be very simple or very elaborate, but

even the simplest wedding requires some planning and advance

preparation. Carol Benjamin has written a very complete book for

brides-to-be called So You're Getting Married! I recommend it

highly for some sound advice about wedding preparations, be they

simple or elaborate.

There is never a time before marriage or even after marriage,

for that matter when it is appropriate for a couple to display

intimate affection in public. We call it ``hanging all over each

other.'' Even after you're engaged, please don't kiss intimately

in public. (Even after you're married, you should avoid such a

display unless you're saying good-bye to your wife, and then make

it a quick one.) Make yourself a rule that says, ``Don't do

anything that would cause others to be embarrassed.'' This will

regulate your public conduct both before and after the wedding.

Intimate times should always be reserved for when you are alone

together.

Read this part:
But up until the wedding vows are spoken, a couple should

never spend prolonged periods of time alone. Of course, there

will be times when he will stop by to pick her up, and he'll have

to come in and wait for a few moments. They will be alone in the

car as they drive to their destination. But there should never be

a time when they sit at home together and watch television for a

few hours or share the dinner by candlelight at his or her home.

In such a situation, a couple would become an accident just

waiting to happen, no matter how spiritual they think they are.

Protect yourself from crashing and burning. Avoid many

situations when it's just the two of you, with soft lights, low

music, you're talking about your future, and nobody will be

around for twenty-four hours. One practical reason for this is

that your neighbors will observe that. Consider what they will

think is happening in there. What did you make them think is

happening? You drew a picture for them; it would be unfair of you

to accuse them of having an evil mind for thinking you were

having an intimate affair. But a more important reason to avoid

such a situation is that you are lying to yourself if you think

that you can do this very often and not fall into sin. No matter

how spiritual you are, you are still human flesh and blood, and

Satan is out to destroy you. Don't give him the occasion to do

it. Avoid being secluded alone very often, even during your

engagement.

 
Upvote 0

FaithfulServant

The Lord directs my steps
Apr 10, 2004
1,403
133
40
Texas, the best state :)
✟2,235.00
Faith
Christian
Marital Status
Married
Here is another helpful link:

http://www.kaleo.us/Studies/02_01_04_Biblical_Courtship_Fairchild.doc

You might want to try to concept of biblical courtship, not dating. I am in college so my parents can't exactly "pick out a mate" and I sure wouldn't want them to But it's a good idea to have their input and their opinions on who you are "courting".
 
Upvote 0

hamster_head

Active Member
Nov 18, 2003
39
0
42
Fresno, CA
✟149.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Mr.Cheese said:
What is your reason for asking?

Because I haven't evaluated the topic for some time, and really none of the stances seem to make complete sense to me, nor have I been able to compile the arguments needed to make a logical conclusion on the issue myself.

The two articles that were left here are a bit too basic and cliche' for what I'm searching for. However, I do genuinely appreciate the thought.
 
Upvote 0

Glamgoddess

Active Member
Jan 12, 2004
37
0
40
✟22,649.00
Faith
Christian
Isn't this going a LITLE too far??

Saying that you can't be alone during the engagement??

I think it said that when you are "going steady" it invo9lves getting together in groups and alone...but wait-
It says that during engagement, you are not to be alone together, does it not??! Uh-why?? What is wrong with having a cadle lit dinner? Or even soft music?? I mean, come on!! I made a special lobster dinner for my now EX-BF, on his biorthday last year, and we ate it by candle light, and I don't think my neighbours would've been trying to watch, or observe what I was doing, and if they were, isn't that called spying....and isn't spying illegal?

I respect everyones right to lead their personal relationships they way they see fit, but I believe that for me, it's a bit extreame (and bizarre) to say it's O.K to spend time along when you are going steady, but not when you are engaged...which is meant to be more commited than the former relationship.

Am I right...or just confused here??
 
Upvote 0

jesus_is_my_life

Active Member
Feb 12, 2004
118
5
41
Wisconsin
Visit site
✟268.00
Faith
Christian
I think it all has to do with the fruit of the spirit "self control" Some can have dinner by candle-light, some can't cuz' it would be too much of a temptation for them. You prolly should just follow your inward witness and do what He says, cuz' He knows us better than ourselves

And I found this wonderful article from www.siverringthing.com:

~How Far is Too Far?

Let's cut to the chase. How far is too far is asking, "What technically, can I do and still be pure?"

Think of a car. Everything in it is built so that it can move. It wasn't built just to sit in your driveway. It was built to travel. But it can't move until you put the key in the ignition and start the engine. However, you can't drive unless you have a license. Right? If you don't have your license or a permit, you are not going anywhere. There is a right time for you to drive.

Your body is the same, in a sense. It was built for a purpose. It was built to be able to have sex. It was built to enhance the relationship in a marriage. Sex isn't the only aspect of a marriage. In fact, it shouldn't even be a PART of the relationship UNTIL marriage.

So how do you know what your limits should be? Think about these questions:

1. Would you be comfortable doing it with your parents in the room?
2. If you saw your boyfriend or girlfriend doing it (IT=whatever actions you're not sure about) with a member of the opposite sex, would you be jealous or have a problem with it?
3. What do you want to save for your future husband or wife?
4. Do you expect the best when you are married?
5. What would you NOT want your husband or wife to do with a member of the opposite sex? - You probably shouldn't do that either right now.
6. At what point does your body kick in and make it hard to stop when you're intimate with the opposite sex?
7. What things would you not be comfortable doing in front of your grandparents?
8. What about you is special?
9. What about you do you treasure?
10. Would you eat a cookie that already had a bite taken out of it?

So, here is the line. When you feel your body "turn on the engine" ... you have gone too far. At the point when you start wanting MORE you need to stop. It is not a bad thing that you want more... it is only bad when you act on it. It is a lot harder to stop a moving car than a parked car, right?~

This article really helped me put things in the right perspective!
 
Upvote 0

AmeriLovesJesus

BELIEVING IS SEEING
Jan 18, 2004
944
48
42
New Jersey
Visit site
✟23,850.00
Faith
Christian

You are not confused.. u r right!!!

I just think all that is nonsense...


Its all about self control!!! ... I cannt believe someone would say... Avoid watching movies together... being alone together.. candle lit dinners... WOW!! ... The whole meaning of spending quality time with a loved one.. Just because you are watching movies... doesnt mean anything.. other people are stronger... then others.. I believe God will gives us strength.. to be able to do those things... and still be under control.. When something like that happens... Pray... if you feel something coming on that you dont want to happen... Pray...


What! ..Thats not unfair.. Being nosey is just wrong.. and assuming something is wrong.. and its their fault they have a dirty mind.. They can think all they want.... If you live life worrying about what others think... wow!! Thats just crazy!!!

I agree with you Glamgoddess!! ...
 
Upvote 0

enslow

Active Member
Jun 26, 2003
326
11
105
✟23,016.00
Faith
Christian
Glamgoddess and Jesusismylife,

People may notice that your parents went out, then your boyfriend came over for a few hours. They aren't spying on you, they just happen to observe these things. In these modern times, what are your neighbours going to think? I know what I would think, even if I were to keep it to myself.

This was an issue for me and my fiancee because I bought my own place a couple of years ago, so my parents don't live with me. What I did was to turn the lights on in the bedroom, leave the blinds open enough for anyone to have the opportunity to see what was going on. Because we never went in the bedroom, people would know that nothing was going on.

You might ask "why should I be worried about what others think? It's my business!" I would say that while that is your business, it's also your business to be a good role model.

I do think that you can have a dinner by candle light and soft music. But you do need other mechanisms in place so that you know you won't fall.

Enslow
 
Upvote 0

Glamgoddess

Active Member
Jan 12, 2004
37
0
40
✟22,649.00
Faith
Christian
I'm sorry, maybe it;s just me, but I've never had neighbours who are observing me THAT closely, and even when I was living away from home in my own apartment, everyone in the block kept to themselves. No one knew anyone, and firstly, just because a man happens to enter the aparment, who's to say it is my boyfriend anyway? For example, I have brothers who would come over, I also have male friends, so in the course of a week, seven different men could come into my place, and the nighbours don't know the relation these men have to me...so the neighbours might also assume I'm a sleazy woman who sleeps around...do you see my point?

Is the dating/courting system different over there in America? Do people go up to all their surrounding neighbours and introduce them to their BF'S or GF's, and kind of 'invite' the neighbours to watch/observe them? I mean.....be honest now people, if you live in an apartment, and you see a man go into next door, do you even know who he is? He could be a couson/brother/friend/workmate/or even a stranger......so who's able to tell that closely?

Sorry....I'm venting.

I understand that you have to be careful about what your FAMILY and FRIENDS might think.....but the dude across the hall??

I respect everyones different veiws and thoughts on this topic.
 
Upvote 0
N

netal

Guest
I honestly don't think anyone can say how far is too far for anyone else. I believe it is a personal decision- to stop before you are out of control. I think it varies for everyone. As long as you feel you are being respectful and honest with God (and to your partner), and not letting your desires cloud your judgement, I think we need to decide for ourselves.
 
Upvote 0

tesnusxenos

Active Member
Apr 17, 2004
226
8
64
Tesnus, Texas
Visit site
✟22,896.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
Neighbors should be a mission feild and as such your Christian witness is important.
Ephesians 5

3But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people.
 
Upvote 0

JillLars

It's a Boy! Jace David- Due 1/20/07
Jan 20, 2003
3,105
115
42
New Hope, MN
Visit site
✟3,944.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
Neighbors should be a mission feild and as such your Christian witness is important.
Ephesians 5

3But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people.


Having a guy over to your apartment is not sexual immorality, if it is, then I'm in a lot of trouble cause I had 4 or 5 guys over last weekend, I also had two younger guys over the week before that (my brothers), and the week before that my 16 year old brother spent the night at my apartment.

People gossip. That is wrong.

Now I agree, we shouldn't be ruining our witness by doing un-christ-like things, but it is possible to take this a little too far. We need to remember that God is our judge, not our neighbors, and while we should try to reflect Christ to everyone we meet, it is impossible to please everyone. We can only serve one God and if we spend our time trying to please everyone we meet, we lose sight of the original goal.
 
Upvote 0

tesnusxenos

Active Member
Apr 17, 2004
226
8
64
Tesnus, Texas
Visit site
✟22,896.00
Faith
Calvinist
Marital Status
Married
I am not saying that having five guys over is sexual imorality I am saying that it may have the appearance (hint) of that and cause people to gossip or look at you(and all Christians) as hypocrits.
Romans 14
12So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God.
13Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Instead, make up your mind not to put any stumbling block or obstacle in your brother's way. 14As one who is in the Lord Jesus, I am fully convinced that no food is unclean in itself. But if anyone regards something as unclean, then for him it is unclean. 15If your brother is distressed because of what you eat, you are no longer acting in love. Do not by your eating destroy your brother for whom Christ died. 16Do not allow what you consider good to be spoken of as evil. (NIV)
In my opinion,it is your responsability (for your witness to them) to let your neighbors know that what is going on there with your male friends is pure and rightous. Don't let them stumble because of your actions
 
Upvote 0

JillLars

It's a Boy! Jace David- Due 1/20/07
Jan 20, 2003
3,105
115
42
New Hope, MN
Visit site
✟3,944.00
Faith
Lutheran
Marital Status
Single
In my opinion,it is your responsability (for your witness to them) to let your neighbors know that what is going on there with your male friends is pure and rightous. Don't let them stumble because of your actions

Well, I won't be going door to door announcing what I am doing with my male visitors. Frankly, it is none of my neighbors business, and I'm pretty sure they could care less. I don't want them to stumble because of my actions, but how do you think it makes people feel to assume that they will gossip and think the wrong thing. What ever happened to giving people the benefit of the doubt (on both ends of the spectrum.)
 
Upvote 0