How far do we let political correctness take us?

[edie19]

OK - this isn't about Reformed theology, but I don't know where to put it. Also, I love your input and insight.

edie

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20051221-121224-6972r.htm

 

[Cajun Huguenot]

I just read it on Drudge. God save us from politically correct Doofs like those in the article.

I am a disgusted U.S. Navy veteran.

Kenith

 

[Erinwilcox]

Another effort to quash religion. At my cousin's public middle school, the school board coined this term for the holidays--Happy Christmahannaukwanzaa. Alright, so it's good that they kept the "Christma" part, but do AMERICANS honestly need to give up their freedom of speech in order to keep everybody happy? Technically, at Target, I'm not supposed to really be saying "Merry Christmas" to people that I either help or check out. Notice the word technically. I've never been told outright. If the person looks like they are nice (which most do), I smile and cheerfully wish them a Merry Christmas--every one of the hundreds of people that I have said this to responded with an equally cheerful Merry Christmas. I desire to exercise my freedom of speech. If I want to wish someone a Merry Christmas, then I am going to do so. If Target wants me to stop, then I suppose I may have to stop off the clock, but you should hear me when I'm shopping!

It is such a shame that the rights of American citizens are being trampled on. What does it say about a country who won't even allow her chaplains to pray in the name of Jesus? What does GOD think about a country who won't let her chaplains pray in the name of His son? America is skating on thin ice and we as Americans should pray that God will not pour out His wrath upon our beloved country.

 

[McWilliams]

Do we not all have a part? In years past I know I was remiss in greeting everyone with 'Merry Christmas'. Now, since all the hassle I deliberately go out of my way to declare it every time I have an opportunity! Too little, too late?

Rather like, 'If everyone lit just one little candle, what a bright world this would be!'
We'd better start lighting!

 

[erin74]

It sounds to me like the military clergy are being used as puppets. Bring them out to say all the right things at the right times, and then put them back in the box. If they give them the job they should let them do it.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Oh well... Governments will be Governments.


When Jesus said: "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

When reading Romans 13, I read it as:
"Submit to Caesar (Government) what is Caesar's and Submit to God what is God's".

 

[Jon_]

Oh well... Governments will be Governments.


When Jesus said: "Give to Caesar what is Caesar's, and to God what is God's."

When reading Romans 13, I read it as:
"Submit to Caesar (Government) what is Caesar's and Submit to God what is God's".

I'm with you, Jim. It is also written:

(Acts 5:29 KJV) Then Peter and the other apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men.
​

Civil obedience is owed to the government, spiritual obedience is owed to God. Where the two clash, we obey God.

(Colossians 3:17 KJV) And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.
​

Soli Deo Gloria

Jon

 

[AndOne]

This is a problem that has existed in the Chaplain Corps in the military for quite some time. Its nothing new. I will say this though - I have seen more and more Chaplains who are much more bolder with their faith in regards to sharing the gospel and proclaiming Christ in recent years. This may cost them their jobs as officers in the military eventually - but their call to the ministry (which should be their primary duty) will remain firmly in tact.

In regards to Christmas - anytime I am in a situation in which someone tells me the term "Christmas" is considered inappropriate I will usually point out to folks that CHRISTMAS was officially established as a federal holiday on June 26, 1870 and signed into law by President Ulysess S. Grant. As long as it is on the books of the federal register of holidays - I fail to see the inappropriateness of the term.

 

[ClementofRome]

I say lets give Dec 25th back to the pagans and let's celebrate the birth of Christ some time in March, when it likely took place.

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

"Under God," the United States are (sorry, I meant is, since we are not States anymore, but State) only too happy to let Christians kill and be killed in the name of the Almighty State, but State forbid that we should pray in the name of Christ. Separation of church and state? I'm afraid you misunderstand. In America, the state is the church, and the one to whom all worship is due.

 

[JimfromOhio]

"Under God," the United States are (sorry, I meant is, since we are not States anymore, but State) only too happy to let Christians kill and be killed in the name of the Almighty State, but State forbid that we should pray in the name of Christ. Separation of church and state? I'm afraid you misunderstand. In America, the state is the church, and the one to whom all worship is due.

I am not sure if I understand your statement. If I am reading right, United States were never a Theoracy form of Government. Theocracy is a form of government in which a religion and the government are allied. America was created with the influence of Christian people as well as non-christians. We live in a country with a form of government which legislative decisions are made by the people themselves or by representatives who act through the consent of the people. Our form of government offers people the ability to exercise their faith freely and without interference from the government. To be fair to all faiths, our government is set up to not establish a state religion. This includes promoting one religion over another. Faith is something that individuals must accept or reject. People either take the leap and believe or they do not. It is not something that can be forced.

I think we should be patriotic in the godly way. We ought to look at God's providential care in the life of our nation by reading Romans 13:1-7. One basic theme of the Bible is that civil government is ordained by God. Christians are still bound personally by a higher priority established by a higher authority. In my view, We just need to look at the whole picture. God never commanded the governments to "spread the Gospels". God commanded to Christians to spread the Gospels. The Gospel is for "spiritual society" while the Governments are for "human society".

"My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence" (John 18:36)

In this explanation Jesus makes it clear that there is a definite separation between His kingdom and the kingdoms of this world. The fact that Jesus had not allowed His disciples to defend Him was evidence enough of this fact. Christ's kingdom is heavenly and seeks the reconciliation of the sinner to God, but civil and world governments are of this earth and seek for power and supremacy.

The Bible has much to say about the nature of human, the world, purpose, and etc. The world who are without Christ also have their own views. More often than not, the secular world view is in conflict with the bible. To Christians, this should NOT be a surprise. To the world who are without Christ, the issues we are facing is not a surprise either. It is bound to happen someday and it is happening.

The only time I will disobey the Government is when the Government asks me to disobey God as Daniel's experience in the Old Testament. So, at the mean time, I will just go with the flow and still tell others about Jesus Christ as long as I am here.

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

I am not sure if I understand your statement. If I am reading right, United States were never a Theoracy form of Government. Theocracy is a form of government in which a religion and the government are allied. America was created with the influence of Christian people as well as non-christians. We live in a country with a form of government which legislative decisions are made by the people themselves or by representatives who act through the consent of the people. Our form of government offers people the ability to exercise their faith freely and without interference from the government. To be fair to all faiths, our government is set up to not establish a state religion. This includes promoting one religion over another. Faith is something that individuals must accept or reject. People either take the leap and believe or they do not. It is not something that can be forced.

I think we should be patriotic in the godly way. We ought to look at God's providential care in the life of our nation by reading Romans 13:1-7. One basic theme of the Bible is that civil government is ordained by God. Christians are still bound personally by a higher priority established by a higher authority. In my view, We just need to look at the whole picture. God never commanded the governments to "spread the Gospels". God commanded to Christians to spread the Gospels. The Gospel is for "spiritual society" while the Governments are for "human society".

"My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence" (John 18:36)

In this explanation Jesus makes it clear that there is a definite separation between His kingdom and the kingdoms of this world. The fact that Jesus had not allowed His disciples to defend Him was evidence enough of this fact. Christ's kingdom is heavenly and seeks the reconciliation of the sinner to God, but civil and world governments are of this earth and seek for power and supremacy.

The Bible has much to say about the nature of human, the world, purpose, and etc. The world who are without Christ also have their own views. More often than not, the secular world view is in conflict with the bible. To Christians, this should NOT be a surprise. To the world who are without Christ, the issues we are facing is not a surprise either. It is bound to happen someday and it is happening.

The only time I will disobey the Government is when the Government asks me to disobey God as Daniel's experience in the Old Testament. So, at the mean time, I will just go with the flow and still tell others about Jesus Christ as long as I am here.

I'm afraid you are reading far more into my statement than was ever put there. For one thing, I am not in this statement advocating the establishment of any form of "theocracy" (notwithstanding my thoughts on the matter). What I am speaking of is, of course, the establishment of state-worship. It is the state to whom worship is due, according to the state. And this is, of course, disobedience to Christ, and therefore must be disobeyed. "Political correctness" is simply the liturgy of the state, the form of state-worship. It demands that we deny Christ in order to promote sensitivity to other faiths, and to maintain an overall "separation of church and state". When military chaplains are not permitted to pray in Jesus' name, they are being told to disobey Christ, and instead to honor the state. This is the furthest thing from freedom of religion.

I was noting that the state has no problem with killing Christian soldiers. What it has a problem with is allowing those soldiers to practice their religion. Can't have such insensitivity among soldiers.

We will either have God's law, or chaos. And if chaos, tyranny. We as Christians must oppose all attempts to deify the state.

 

[JimfromOhio]

I'm afraid you are reading far more into my statement than was ever put there. For one thing, I am not in this statement advocating the establishment of any form of "theocracy" (notwithstanding my thoughts on the matter). What I am speaking of is, of course, the establishment of state-worship. It is the state to whom worship is due, according to the state. And this is, of course, disobedience to Christ, and therefore must be disobeyed. "Political correctness" is simply the liturgy of the state, the form of state-worship. It demands that we deny Christ in order to promote sensitivity to other faiths, and to maintain an overall "separation of church and state". When military chaplains are not permitted to pray in Jesus' name, they are being told to disobey Christ, and instead to honor the state. This is the furthest thing from freedom of religion.

I was noting that the state has no problem with killing Christian soldiers. What it has a problem with is allowing those soldiers to practice their religion. Can't have such insensitivity among soldiers.

We will either have God's law, or chaos. And if chaos, tyranny. We as Christians must oppose all attempts to deify the state.

Okay... thanks for the clarification !!

 

[Paleoconservatarian]

Okay... thanks for the clarification !!

No problem. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm tryin' to pick a fight. I just don't want to be misunderstood.

 

[JimfromOhio]

Personally, looking at history, I don't think the Government is the problem. The problem is people and organizations like ACLU are taking advantage of United States laws for their purposes. Satan have been using people and organizations to abuse our government's laws so our own rights can be restricted. "Poor interpretations and selfish motives" are the most causes for this "political correction" problem.

 

[JimfromOhio]

No problem. I hope it doesn't sound like I'm tryin' to pick a fight. I just don't want to be misunderstood.

Me either but again, I do debate often especially with WOFs. I just want some clarification and when I read your post, I knew that you trying to say from your first post.

 

[ClementofRome]

In America, the state is the church, and the one to whom all worship is due.

Smacks of ancient Rome! uhh, and they hated Christians too!

 

[erin74]

hey this whole thread is starting to sound a little similar to the talks I've been posting links to - the Peter Jensen talks.

If you are interested he had some interesting things to say about the relationship a church has with government, and about not being a theocracy and yet not embracing secularism. It's very interesting.

 

[calmcoolandelected]

Personally, looking at history, I don't think the Government is the problem. The problem is people and organizations like ACLU are taking advantage of United States laws for their purposes. Satan have been using people and organizations to abuse our government's laws so our own rights can be restricted. "Poor interpretations and selfish motives" are the most causes for this "political correction" problem.

Amen to that, Jim!

CC&E

 

[calmcoolandelected]

Do we not all have a part? In years past I know I was remiss in greeting everyone with 'Merry Christmas'. Now, since all the hassle I deliberately go out of my way to declare it every time I have an opportunity! Too little, too late?

Rather like, 'If everyone lit just one little candle, what a bright world this would be!'
We'd better start lighting!

I'm just plain sick of the politically correct crowd co-opting our language! I have sometimes wished folks "Happy Holidays" -- meaning Christmas or Hannakah PLUS New Year's. Now I feel like if I say something like that people will think that I am deliberately omitting Christmas.

CC&E