How does the 'Indwelling of the Holy Spirit' transform a Christian?

[reddogs]

The transformation of a true christian so that sin is cleansed from his heart and mind and he begins to show the fruits of the Holy Spirit seems to be simple enough. Yet the actual bearing of fruit seems to be unclear, so lets take a look at what the scripture says:

Life by the Spirit

16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. Galations 5:16-26


1Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children 2and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
3But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[a] 6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7Therefore do not be partners with them.
8For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9(for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10and find out what pleases the Lord. 11Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, 14for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said:
"Wake up, O sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you."
15Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, 16making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is. 18Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. 19Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, 20always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 21Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Ephesians 5: 1-21

So if we are led by the Spirit, we are not under the law, does that mean we can sin and go against it, I dont think thats what is meant. The indwelling of the Holy Spirit does not stop us from doing Gods will and showing love as that is the essence of the law, but it will puty into our hearts and minds the spirit of the law which is even better than the "letter of the law" that sinners use every means to 'get around'. Those who are transformed by the Holy Spirit follow Gods will so there is no need of the Law to show them sin.

It's possible as we see from story the rich young ruler to keep the "letter of the law" even without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in their lives, but those who have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in their lives will not only keep the "letter of the law" but the spirit of the law as well.

Here is a excellent explanation on the fruits of the Spirit in this excerpt from Richard W. O'Ffill:

"...Although the first work of the Gospel in the life is cleansing from sin, this work is only the preparation for the primary purpose, which is the infilling of the Holy Spirit in the life. "A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you [the new birth]...And I will put My Spirit within you..." (Ezekiel 36:26, 27).
The promise in these verses has two components. The first is to give us a new spirit; that is, our own spirit is renewed and quickened by the work of the Holy Spirit. When this has been done, the rest of the promise states, "I will put My Spirit within you" to dwell in that new spirit.

God created man's heart for His dwelling. Where God is to dwell, He must have a habitation. With Adam He had to create a body before He could breathe the spirit of life into him. In Israel the tabernacle and the Temple had to be built and completed before God could come down and take possession. Likewise, a new heart is given and a new spirit put within us as the indispensable condition of God's Own Spirit being given to dwell within us.

But God's original purpose for man was frustrated. The purpose of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus, remember, was to re-create a dwelling place of which it could be said, "The kingdom of God is within you" (Luke 17:21).

While Jesus walked this earth as a man, He was personally with His disciples. But it would not be until Pentecost that the promise of John 14:16, 17 would be fulfilled: "And I will pray the Father, and He shall give you another Comforter, that He may abide with you forever; even the Spirit of truth; Whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth Him not, neither knoweth Him: but ye know Him; for He dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."

A wonderful and sobering thought is expressed in 1 Corinthians 6:19, 20: "What? Know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own? For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's."

While not smoking and drinking or going to movies and dancing, omitting mustard, vinegar, and black pepper in the diet, worshipping on the seventh day, and following a dress code are laudable, none of these things requires that a person be born again or, for that matter, even be a follower of Christ (the Hindus are traditionally vegans).

A true Christian is one whose heart is not only swept and clean but is filled in a wonderful and mysterious way with the Holy Spirit...."

"..As the Holy Spirit is welcomed and begins His work, the fruits of the spirit will begin to manifest itself in the transformation of the person, producing that which is in essence the very character of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

We are acquainted with the qualities of the fruit of the Spirit as shown in Galatians 5:22, 23: "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law." This list, however, is not exhaustive. There are other qualities enumerated in 1 Timothy 6:11, Romans 5:3-5, 2 Timothy 3:10, and 2 Peter 1:5-7.

Jesus made it clear: Those who claim to be His followers but do not bear fruit will be plucked up and taken away (John 15:2). He also declared that, inasmuch as many will profess to be His followers (Matthew 7:21, 22), the deciding factor will not be what they profess to believe or even what they do, but rather the kind of people they are (Mathew 12:33).

On looking back at much of our emphasis as Seventh-day Adventists in days gone by, Jesus might say to us, "These things ought you to have done, but not left the other undone."... In the past we were not wrong in teaching what not to do on the Sabbath, but we should have included Be kind, (gentle, joyful, and longsuffering, etc..). In some ways our lifestyle did not require a change of heart, only a change of mind.

Rest assured, in spite of impressions we might have received from our charismatic friends, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit does not lessen the impact of the letter of the law in our lives, but it will assure that we have the spirit of the law. While people can keep the letter of the law without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in their lives, those who have the true Spirit in their hearts will not only keep the letter of the law but the spirit of the law as well...."

"Those who receive the seal of God will be those who have not only been swept and cleaned but who have been the dwelling place of the Holy Spirit and as a result have manifested His fruit in their lives..."

Here is Ellen White on the same topic:
"The mighty power of the Holy Spirit works an entire transformation in the character of the human agent, making him a new creature in Christ Jesus.... The peace that dwells in the soul is seen on the countenance. The words and actions express the love of the Saviour. There is no striving for the highest place. Self is renounced. The name of Jesus is written on all that is said and done."—Ellen G. White Comments, SDA Bible Commentary, vol. 6, p. 1117.

Just as leaven transforms a lump of dough into delicious bread, so the Holy Spirit transforms our lives into people who reflect Christ's character:

"As the leaven . . . works from within outward, so it is by the renewing of the heart that the grace of God works to transform the life. No mere external change is sufficient to bring us into harmony with God. There are many who try to reform by correcting this or that bad habit, and they hope in this way to become Christians, but they are beginning in the wrong place. Our first work is with the heart." - Christ's Object Lessons, p. 97.

 

[Eila]

It's possible as we see from story the rich young ruler to keep the "letter of the law" even without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in their lives, but those who have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in their lives will not only keep the "letter of the law" but the spirit of the law as well.

What do you mean by the "spirit of the law"? 2 Corinthians 3 " who also made us sufficient as ministers of the new covenant, not of the letter but of the Spirit; for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life." I see the Bible talking about the Spirit, but not about the "spirit" or essense of the law.

Rest assured, in spite of impressions we might have received from our charismatic friends, the indwelling of the Holy Spirit does not lessen the impact of the letter of the law in our lives, but it will assure that we have the spirit of the law. While people can keep the letter of the law without the indwelling of the Holy Spirit in their lives, those who have the true Spirit in their hearts will not only keep the letter of the law but the spirit of the law as well...."

Again, the "spirit of the law" What is that?

 

[reddogs]

The 'spirit of the law' is to show love one to another and to love God as is His will from creation. I testify with each and every word of the scripture my eyes are openned more and more, to the glory of God and His Son Jesus Christ. I am shocked and saddened and very surprised to read and come to a fuller understanding what the scripture says are the fruits of the indwelling Holy Spirit as it convicts almost each of you who post of not bearing the fruit of the Spirit. (Present company not excluded and that includes myself)

Almost everyone of you have shown either arrogance, anger, hatred, prejudice, foolishness, elitism,discord, jealousy, fits of rage, dissensions, factions,abusiveness, self aggrandizement, combativeness, etc... in your postings. Your own words convict you as everyone can read what you have written, not one of you can truly say that they have been transformed by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as shown by the fruits you have shown here. Shame on you, sin abounds on every word in your fight to prove you know more or better or more precisely the very word of God that convicts you. I confess my sin and ask all I have offended and Jesus Christ for forgiveness.

We are all sinners, I testify that almost everyone of you has not been cleansed and purified or transformed and have much need of repentance, and conviction of your sins, and much prayer that Jesus Christ may in His infinite mercy cover them with grace and send the Holy Spirit to begin its work.

I testify that you still have need to crucify the sinful nature with its passions and desires as they still dwell within you. I rebuke those who know their sin and will not begin with names as you see the writing in the sand, confess your sins, repent and let the Lord Jesus Christ hear your plea as he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Confess your faults, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed.

I dont know if you can even claim to call yourselves "christians" with the spirit of evil you have shown. Where is the true love that "suffereth long, and is kind;...envieth not;...vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things" (1 Corinthians 13:4-7).

Where is the true joy, that comes as the result of hope. Where is the peace, then, that comes as a fruit of the Spirit and I testify I have not seen much patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. I do not speak my own words but what the Holy Spirit has allow me to see....

Now that the word of God has shown us our sin of our lack of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control, we must turn from them and put ourselves at the feet of Jesus Christ and accept grace and let the Holy Spirit cleanse ourselves of these sins and be filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

I testify this as the Spirit compels me.

 

[Eila]

The 'spirit of the law' is to show love one to another and to love God as is His will from creation. I testify with each and every word of the scripture my eyes are openned more and more, to the glory of God and His Son Jesus Christ. I am shocked and saddened and very surprised to read and come to a fuller understanding what the scripture says are the fruits of the indwelling Holy Spirit as it convicts almost each of you who post of not bearing the fruit of the Spirit. (Present company not excluded and that includes myself)

Almost everyone of you have shown either arrogance, anger, hatred, prejudice, foolishness, elitism,discord, jealousy, fits of rage, dissensions, factions,abusiveness, self aggrandizement, combativeness, etc... in your postings. Your own words convict you as everyone can read what you have written, not one of you can truly say that they have been transformed by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit as shown by the fruits you have shown here. Shame on you, sin abounds on every word in your fight to prove you know more or better or more precisely the very word of God that convicts you. I confess my sin and ask all I have offended and Jesus Christ for forgiveness.

We are all sinners, I testify that almost everyone of you has not been cleansed and purified or transformed and have much need of repentance, and conviction of your sins, and much prayer that Jesus Christ may in His infinite mercy cover them with grace and send the Holy Spirit to begin its work.

I testify that you still have need to crucify the sinful nature with its passions and desires as they still dwell within you. I rebuke those who know their sin and will not begin with names as you see the writing in the sand, confess your sins, repent and let the Lord Jesus Christ hear your plea as he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. Confess your faults, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed.

I dont know if you can even claim to call yourselves "christians" with the spirit of evil you have shown. Where is the true love that "suffereth long, and is kind;...envieth not;...vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things" (1 Corinthians 13:4-7).

Where is the true joy, that comes as the result of hope. Where is the peace, then, that comes as a fruit of the Spirit and I testify I have not seen much patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. I do not speak my own words but what the Holy Spirit has allow me to see....

Now that the word of God has shown us our sin of our lack of love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control, we must turn from them and put ourselves at the feet of Jesus Christ and accept grace and let the Holy Spirit cleanse ourselves of these sins and be filled with the fruits of righteousness, which are by Jesus Christ, unto the glory and praise of God.

I testify this as the Spirit compels me.

Reddogs, what can I say but it makes me sad that you see things that way.

 

[ricker]

Hi! I am new to this forum, and this is just an observation, but I see that apparently someone likes to start long rambling threads that are jam packed with out of context proof texts and questionable statements. When anything he/she writes is questioned, it is apparently considered "arrogance, anger, hatred, prejudice, foolishness, elitism,discord, jealousy, fits of rage, dissensions, factions,abusiveness, self aggrandizement, combativeness". This is SOP with cults. They attack anyone who disagrees with them and discourage independent thought or study. Of course, I am not calling Adventism a cult, but certain attributes are surely there.

 

[reddogs]

Since you are new, there many threads that you have not seen where many here who claim they have been filled with the indwelling of the Spirit have had many unchristian like fights, insults, and outright hatred was instigated along with the resulting warnings. Those who posted them know who wrote what so I will not go over them. But to say you are filled with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and God within you and show those attributes of evil shows there is a lot of man "saying they have been filled with the Spirit" and "transformed" that from these text it shows it obviously has not happened.

Here are the text again, if you have ones more in context please share them with us....

Life by the Spirit

16So I say, live by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the sinful nature. 17For the sinful nature desires what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the sinful nature. They are in conflict with each other, so that you do not do what you want. 18But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under law.
19The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; 20idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions 21and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. 24Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the sinful nature with its passions and desires. 25Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit. 26Let us not become conceited, provoking and envying each other. Galations 5:16-26


1Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children 2and live a life of love, just as Christ loved us and gave himself up for us as a fragrant offering and sacrifice to God.
3But among you there must not be even a hint of sexual immorality, or of any kind of impurity, or of greed, because these are improper for God's holy people. 4Nor should there be obscenity, foolish talk or coarse joking, which are out of place, but rather thanksgiving. 5For of this you can be sure: No immoral, impure or greedy person—such a man is an idolater—has any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.[a] 6Let no one deceive you with empty words, for because of such things God's wrath comes on those who are disobedient. 7Therefore do not be partners with them.
8For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Live as children of light 9(for the fruit of the light consists in all goodness, righteousness and truth) 10and find out what pleases the Lord. 11Have nothing to do with the fruitless deeds of darkness, but rather expose them. 12For it is shameful even to mention what the disobedient do in secret. 13But everything exposed by the light becomes visible, 14for it is light that makes everything visible. This is why it is said:
"Wake up, O sleeper,
rise from the dead,
and Christ will shine on you."
15Be very careful, then, how you live—not as unwise but as wise, 16making the most of every opportunity, because the days are evil. 17Therefore do not be foolish, but understand what the Lord's will is. 18Do not get drunk on wine, which leads to debauchery. Instead, be filled with the Spirit. 19Speak to one another with psalms, hymns and spiritual songs. Sing and make music in your heart to the Lord, 20always giving thanks to God the Father for everything, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. 21Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ. Ephesians 5: 1-21

 

[IamAdopted]

Jesus being who He was stood up to the truth. The truth as it is written in His word. So what are you saying here? It is in Christ that we have our being. We are dead to the Law and alive in Christ. What the law could not do Christ did.

 

[Eila]

Since you are new, there many threads that you have not seen where many here who claim they have been filled with the indwelling of the Spirit have had many unchristian like fights, insults, and outright hatred was instigated along with the resulting warnings. Those who posted them know who wrote what so I will not go over them. But to say you are filled with the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and God within you and show those attributes of evil shows there is a lot of man "saying they have been filled with the Spirit" and "transformed" that from these text it shows it obviously has not happened.

Reddogs,

Just a few points

• You are judging based on words in a forum. Words in a forum do not always present themselves in their true meaning because 80% of what is said is in how it is said. That 80% part of communication is hard to do on a forum. The smilies help, but don't make up for the lack of nonverbal communication and tone of face to face communication.
• Since you made this a public issue I am saying this here. You say the Spirit compelled you to write that. Please reference Matthew 18:15-17 The Spirit does not go against the Word. Sometimes what we think is the Spirit is actually our flesh.
• If you don't wish to hear opposing views you should keep your posts to the SDA forum. You will be less likely to hear opposing views there.
• If a person demonstrates anger or exasperation it doesn't mean they do not have the Spirit living in them. If a person sins and hates his brother it doesn't mean they don't have the Spirit living in them. The Spirit is not there because of a person's goodness, but because of Jesus' goodness.
• Reddogs, I do love you. I admit at times it has been difficult to do so. If my posts have appeared as hatred I apologize - that was not my heart in any of my posts. I will stand for what I believe as the truth and will continue to do so especially to those who desire to be married to the shadows. I love SDAs and still have a strong connection to them. My whole family is all SDA and strongly desire for all SDAs to see the light of the Gospel even while in the shadows.

 

[reddogs]

Reddogs,

Just a few points

• You are judging based on words in a forum. Words in a forum do not always present themselves in their true meaning because 80% of what is said is in how it is said. That 80% part of communication is hard to do on a forum. The smilies help, but don't make up for the lack of nonverbal communication and tone of face to face communication.
• Since you made this a public issue I am saying this here. You say the Spirit compelled you to write that. Please reference Matthew 18:15-17 The Spirit does not go against the Word. Sometimes what we think is the Spirit is actually our flesh.
• If you don't wish to hear opposing views you should keep your posts to the SDA forum. You will be less likely to hear opposing views there.
• If a person demonstrates anger or exasperation it doesn't mean they do not have the Spirit living in them. If a person sins and hates his brother it doesn't mean they don't have the Spirit living in them. The Spirit is not there because of a person's goodness, but because of Jesus' goodness.
• Reddogs, I do love you. I admit at times it has been difficult to do so. If my posts have appeared as hatred I apologize - that was not my heart in any of my posts. I will stand for what I believe as the truth and will continue to do so especially to those who desire to be married to the shadows. I love SDAs and still have a strong connection to them. My whole family is all SDA and strongly desire for all SDAs to see the light of the Gospel even while in the shadows.

I am not judging anyone, their own words are what convict them and you know ro seen some of the posts and what was said and in what spirit and it was not from the Holy Spirit or even in a christian manner.

As for the Spirit being the flesh, that is what I have been saying, you declare yourself filled with the Spirit but more often than not, the words used point to the flesh not the Spirit talking.

You know I have nothing against opposing points of view as I have gone over many things with you and others in a very friendly manner with everyone blessed with much more understanding than they began with.

What we were talking about and I am speaking about is the tranformation or bearing the fruits of the Spirit which many here have claimed even to the level of perfection, I testified against those who claimed that and still had anger, hatred, prejudice, foolishness, elitism,discord, jealousy, fits of rage, dissensions, etc.. They are fooling themselves if they claim they are bearing the fruits and have been transformed and still have the full attributes of evil.

You know I have always said you are honest in what you feel and have been patient with you over hundreds of posts. Your christian love is evident and I appriciate what you say. But there have also been times when there have been uneeded and unchristian jabs, I have ignored them and forgiven them as unintended, but it can cause others into evil and cause them to sin.


If you truly love God, then your purpose should be to show His truth as contained in His word in a loving manner, declaring others to be in the shadows is not what I would call sharing the gospel in a loving manner. It gives the appearance of arragonce and a unloving spirit, maybe it would be more positive if you presented it as a different understanding of the gospel. Then no one is harmed and evil is averted...


Your brother in Christ
Red

 

[Eila]

I am not judging anyone, their own words are what convict them and you know ro seen some of the posts and what was said and in what spirit and it was not from the Holy Spirit or even in a christian manner.

If their own words convict them then your post didn't need to be made.

As for the Spirit being the flesh, that is what I have been saying, you declare yourself filled with the Spirit but more often than not, the words used point to the flesh not the Spirit talking.

A person can be filled with the Spirit and still do things of the flesh.

You know I have nothing against opposing points of view as I have gone over many things with you and others in a very friendly manner with everyone blessed with much more understanding than they began with.

See this is why forums are not a good indicator of the intent. There have been many many posts that I have read from you that I have perceived as anything but friendly and I have personally not see non-SDA blessed with more understanding. I'm sure that it is your perception that you have always been friendly, but the intent of typing on a forum is not perceived because we only have the words to go by.

What we were talking about and I am speaking about is the tranformation or bearing the fruits of the Spirit which many here have claimed even to the level of perfection, I testified against those who claimed that and still had anger, hatred, prejudice, foolishness, elitism,discord, jealousy, fits of rage, dissensions, etc.. They are fooling themselves if they claim they are bearing the fruits and have been transformed and still have the full attributes of evil.

I still don't think you understand what I have been saying. I am perfect. But how? Because I have His perfection. It is not based on what I do. The perfection is based on Him and He will never be anything but perfect. Now, I am not without sin and am still maturing.

Again, I don't think you can judge people based on a forum. If you met them in real life and they were consistantly showing hatred, rage, etc then that may be another thing. I don't think anyone on here hates you Redddogs. People have probably been frustrated by you and angry at what you teach, but that doesn't mean you are not loved by them.

You know I have always said you are honest in what you feel and have been patient with you over hundreds of posts. Your christian love is evident and I appriciate what you say. But there have also been times when there have been uneeded and unchristian jabs, I have ignored them and forgiven them as unintended, but it can cause others into evil and cause them to sin.


If you truly love God, then your purpose should be to show His truth as contained in His word in a loving manner, declaring others to be in the shadows is not what I would call sharing the gospel in a loving manner. It gives the appearance of arragonce and a unloving spirit, maybe it would be more positive if you presented it as a different understanding of the gospel. Then no one is harmed and evil is averted...

Would you call it evil if you tell others that they are following the wrong spirit? Would you call it evil if you tell others that they are deceived because they believe Saturday is not the Christian Sabbath?

Would you call this statement to me evil?

As I said, you are not following the word of God as the words are clear that these are Gods Law, His Commandments that Jesus points to and the truth is right in front of you but you reject it. It is not the Holy Spirit but a deceiving spirit that is not of God that you are following and this false spirit is not allowing you to discern truth and tells you a lie so you continue to hold unto iniquity and feel no need to repent from sin or be cleansed from it.

Would you call this statement to me evil?

I guess the concept of love is hard for you to discern....

Would you call this statement evil?

I dont know if you can even claim to call yourselves "christians" with the spirit of evil you have shown. Where is the true love that "suffereth long, and is kind;...envieth not;...vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up, doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil; rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth; beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things" (1 Corinthians 13:4-7).

 

[reddogs]

If their own words convict them then your post didn't need to be made.



A person can be filled with the Spirit and still do things of the flesh.



See this is why forums are not a good indicator of the intent. There have been many many posts that I have read from you that I have perceived as anything but friendly and I have personally not see non-SDA blessed with more understanding. I'm sure that it is your perception that you have always been friendly, but the intent of typing on a forum is not perceived because we only have the words to go by.



I still don't think you understand what I have been saying. I am perfect. But how? Because I have His perfection. It is not based on what I do. The perfection is based on Him and He will never be anything but perfect. Now, I am not without sin and am still maturing.

Again, I don't think you can judge people based on a forum. If you met them in real life and they were consistantly showing hatred, rage, etc then that may be another thing. I don't think anyone on here hates you Redddogs. People have probably been frustrated by you and angry at what you teach, but that doesn't mean you are not loved by them.



Would you call it evil if you tell others that they are following the wrong spirit? Would you call it evil if you tell others that they are deceived because they believe Saturday is not the Christian Sabbath?

Would you call this statement to me evil?



Would you call this statement to me evil?



Would you call this statement evil?

I quess you didnt understand a word, a testimony is not something you diagnose, it comes from the heart as the Spirit allows, you seem to have a gift to pull apart the words and letters, but dont comprehend the meaning. I dont know what to say.....

 

[Eila]

I quess you didnt understand a word, a testimony is not something you diagnose, it comes from the heart as the Spirit allows, you seem to have a gift to pull apart the words and letters, but dont comprehend the meaning. I dont know what to say.....

Yes, all testimony should be judged by the Bible. Testimony should never be accepted willy-nilly, but it has to line up with the Word of God and testify with our spirit.

My understanding of your post here is that you feel it is okay to tell others that they are following a false spirit, not following God, or not Christian because you say the Spirit led you to say those things? And at the same time when others say things like you are living in the shadow and not understanding the reality of the Gospel - that is done with an unloving intent because you don't agree with it?

There is alot of mention of the Spirit. Can you tell me your understanding of what the Spirit is? You were talking about the spirit of the law - how does that relate to your understanding of the Spirit?

 

[reddogs]

I was quoting the Bible so there wasnt much to check, the words were straight from scripture......


As Bill Clinton so apptly put it" I did not have sexual relations with that woman", he was going by the literal 'letter of the law' as he did not have direct sex. But he failed in the understanding of 'spirit of the law' that if he truly loved his wife he would not even think to lustfully look at another woman, much less have a affair. If he had followed that he would have avoided the adulterous affair, his wife's outrage, and the 'legal entanglements' of the laws of impeachment for lying about the affair.

Now I can look up the post, but it was you who said that we were not directed to "love God" and I should find you a text that supported loving God. Well:



21In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight.
22All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him.
23And he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see: 24For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them.
25And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself. 28And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live. Luke 10:21-28

 

[Eila]

I was quoting the Bible so there wasnt much to check......

As Bill Clinton so apptly put it " I did not have sexual relations with that woman", he was going by the literal 'letter of the law' as he did not have direct sex. But he failed in the understanding of 'spirit of the law' that if he truly loved his wife he would not even think to lustfully look at another woman, much less have a affair. If he had followed that he would have avoided the adulterous affair, his wife's outrage, and the 'legal entanglements' of the laws of impeachment for lying about the affair.

How does your understanding of the "spirit of the law" relate to the Spirit? What do you consider the Spirit to be?

 

[reddogs]

You dont seem to get certain American phrases, are you American? Here is a good description:

"people who behave according to the letter of the law maybe be technically correct, but they may miss the point or spirit of why the law was made in the first place. "

 

[Eila]

You dont seem to get certain American phrases, are you American? Here is a good description:

"people who behave according to the letter of the law maybe be technically correct, but they may miss the point or spirit of why the law was made in the first place. "

I understand that you believe the spirit of the law is the essense of the law, but I am asking about the Spirit (capital S). What do you believe the Spirit is and how does it relate to the spirit (lower case) of the law?