how does one walk as a new testement minister

[Ugilino]

I've just been wondering what does a new testement minister/leader look like? what does the new testement church act like? or what does the new testement service feel like?

the last of these is my biggest question, take a look at 1 cor 14:26... why is it that bible studies and prayer groups feel more like church than church feels like church?

if you have answers for the other two, that would be grand... I know I must not be the first to be asking these questions. But I don't understand why a Pastor looks more like a preacher and an adminsitrator, and a teacher, and somtimes is forced to negelect his sheparding so he has time to prepare for a sermon, or organize the finaces... Or why is it that (at least in america) we as the church allow our government to take on the burden of the poor, when that is our job as the church?

I guess my question is, "why isn't christianity, Christianity?" and, "what can we do to walk in new testement christianity, how can we change things, make things right?"

 

[wayoutsidethebox]

Welcome to CF.

I know what you're saying about feeling like church. Some of that feeling has is based on the intimate or informal setting of Bible study.
We've made Sunday worship so structured and by the numbers that God would have to knock everyone down to be acknowledged or move. This isnt true of all churches but it happens far too often.

Based on whats written in the NT, the NT church isnt about itself. It, the NT church, is about sharing the love and salvation of Christ with the lost, worshipping and being obedient to God (all week, not just on Sunday) and caring for people.

Regarding pastors and other obligations - thats part of pastoring. Its that combination of things that makes the function and ministry of pastoring happen. A pastor wears many hats at the same time: husband, father, son, brother, counselor, gardner, financial management specialist, janitor, dish washer, musician, pastor, teacher, friend, shephard, usher and babysitter... just to name a few things.
Although the pastor can and should delegate some of those tasks to ministers and deacons, the pastor is still held accountable by God when its all said and done.
The pastor has to be an outstanding steward of every resource given and available to him. Time, money, energy, thoughts and other things have to be used wisely. Read through 1&2 Timothy...

Christianity, for some, is a title... "I'm a Christian". Almost like a membership in a fraternity (maybe we should get bowling shirts or varsity jackets?). Others, its a social club. Have a weekly meeting and fashion show, network and exchange info, see how peoples children are doing, who has a new car, etc...
But, theres another group for whom Christianity is a way of life. Its that group that is trying to do and succeeding in doing the things God wants His church to do. There are churches that feed and shelter the poor, minister to those hurting and in need, share and offer salvation to the lost, encourage and energize those that are already in relationship with Him.

To change or make things right, requires a personal committment.
Think about that People PC commercial, when all the little blue people are styanding there paying too much for net service. One person decides to swith and tells someone else. One by one they decide to stop throwing money away and find another provider.
Its like that. We cant make everyone change from the hypocritical Christianity to a real burning and motivating relationship with Him. However, just like that one in the commercial, if someone stops the charade and tells another of their decision... it'll have a ripple effect.

 

[Ugilino]

maybe we should get bowling shirts or varsity jackets?

HAHAHA!!! That’s my kind of holiness... come on Nike... Sanctify me!!!...

Anyhow I think you’re totally right on... but still what about: 1 Corinthians 14

v26"...When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for the edification. v40. But all things must be done properly and in an orderly manner. v33 for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints"

So I don't read 1+2 Tim. or Titus as "pastoral letters" I read them as discipleship... or discipline letters. as in the other letters of the new testament were written to whole churches for their growth and edification, and these, said letters are for the growth and edification of individual believers... those whom Paul had a close relationship with.... yes every man and woman wears many hats... but there are many men and women in the body each wearing many hats... One man should not have the responsibility for all those hats; he will run out of closet space...

You see, even in the most general way God has laid out how he wants the New Testament church to look like...

What is the Old Testament comprised of.... a series of books, written by one man (each book had a different author of course... well... not each... but... anyway) under divine inspiration, God to man to Congregation. So often our churches mimic this system... we've taken the command to do things orderly to such an extreme, that freedom in the Spirit is muted and a spirit of religion comes in and chokes the maturing process.

how is the new testament written... the four different accounts of the God-man followed by a single book where the congregation grows rapidly under the guidance of God's Holy Spirit (in a simplistic way of describing acts) followed by a series of letters... these letters are the most obvious, yet mostly overlooked key to the structure of the church.... these letters are in fact correspondence from a man who is seeking after God, to other people who are seeking after God as well... Do you think Paul learned nothing about God from those in Rome, Corinth, Galatia, Ephesus, Philippi, of Collssae, or Thessalonica, or did he learn nothing from Timothy, or Titus, or James, Peter, and John.

Can it be proven that Paul knew everything about everything right after his conversion and three day fast? It could be argued I guess, but Paul also knew and interesting proverb, "you, therefore, who teach another, do you not teach yourself?"... Or in other words he had observed... probably in his own self that as you are teaching another, you learn as well... many of us have experienced that... I think God is letting us know there that Paul learned as he went, sort of stumbling down the trail, with only God holding him from falling...

(Sorry that was way off subject)

the new testament letters is a picture of the church, because it displays the community of believers exposing truth to one another... one man may have of the truth and another the other half... and then when the two connect (or when the body connects) the Truth is revealed... it shows that even when they weren't assembled together physically, they still brought, each one, a psalm, a teaching, a revelation, a tongue, an interpretation, all to lift one another up.

My last point is this... the Pastoral system however good and however efficient it may be, however easy it is for me to dump my responsibilities on someone else, is not the biblical way to do things. Why... people respond well under pressure, they grow under stress... when there is responsibilities there is a heart, a soul, a mind, a spirit, that is maturing. When each and everyone in the congregation is responsible for bringing something to the table for the edification, they grow... as for efficiency let’s look at 1 Sam 4-7.

in these three chapters Israel goes to war with the philistines in v10,11 Israel is defeated and the philistine army makes off with the ark of the covenant and they bring it to Ashdod, and their god Dagon was destroyed and God smote them with tumors. So they wanted that thing out of Ashdod and the bring it to Gath and there the Lord put a spirit of confusion on the city and also smote them with tumors, so the people of Gath were like, "lets get this thing out of here!" so they sent it to Ekron and God smites them too... so the philistine priests and diviners get together and decide to send it back to Israel with a guilt offering of five golden mice and five golden tumors and they load the Ark of the Covenant in chp6 v7 on to a new cart and send it back to Israel, but before this the Ark was fastened to poles and carried around by the Levites.... so the people of Israel receive the Ark and send it on its way to the house of Abinadab where it stays for twenty years and doesn't get moved until... 2 Sam 6

Then King David in v3 taking his cue from the philistines puts the Ark of God on a new cart... now what is a cart? It is nothing but boards and big wheels, or comities and big ideas or big ideas. Now this cart was being led by Uzzah and Ahio... Uzzah at the reigns and Ahio out front clearing the way... Uzzah literally means strong one Ahio means brotherly. So, what do we have, we have the charismatic, friendly, brotherly guy out front shaking hands and kissing babies and we have Uzzah the strong one, the go to guy, if you ask him to do it can do it, no problem at all for Uzi after all he is the strong one. in v5 ... David and all of Israel are celebrating before the Lord with lyres, harps, tambourines, castanets and cymbals.... all of these things you have to hit in some way to make a loud noise... they're trying to make the loudest noise possible so God Can Hear Them.. now in v6 there coming to the threshing floor of Nacon, and they hit a bump in the road the Ark gets stirred a little bit, and Uzzah, the go to guy, the strong man sees that the ministry that he is leading falters a bit, and knowing that he is the guy that can get things done, he reaches out and puts his hand and the Ark of God to steady it, and he died there when he did, God struck him down.

So now in vv8-11 David is first mad at God for killing Uzzah then he is afraid of the Lord and doesn't bring the Ark into the City of David, but instead brings it to the house of Obed-edom and it remained there three months. In v12 David finds out that the house of Obed-edom had been abundantly blessed so went there, and grabbed the Ark... Not putting it again on a cart but carries it by the acacia polls. We find in v15 that they are no longer praising God with all their noise makers, but they go before the Lord with Shouting and Trumpet blasts, they start praising him with their mouths with their breath, these things pour forth from the heart, and they begin to worship God in spirit (breath) and in truth (heart)...

But something else interesting is going on here in v13... the bearers of the Ark would take six steps and stop while Dave wearing a linen ephod, a priest's garment would build an alter to offer up a sacrifice to the Lord. One two three four five six, stop, build alter, sacrifice, one two three for five six, stop, build alter, sacrifice..... every six steps, can you imagine how fast they would have been there if they only had a cart?!?!, but instead they would take six steps crucify their flesh, seek the Lord, and take six more steps in the direction the Lord told them to go... the Lord does not care about blow by efficient journey, what he desires is thorough comprehensive growth.

now I am aware that this presents a logistical problem... how are we going to find time for a even a hundred people to say something... well there are two ways to solve that...

One. It is obvious that David didn't care about time, so the easy answer is: don't worry about time, fellowship with your brothers and sisters and worship the Lord in Spirit and truth until the wee hours of the morning. After all we are trying to store up treasures in heaven, right?

Two. Break up the congregation into smaller groups for 3/4s of the service use the other 1/4 for worship, don't give a sermon, oh proud pastor oh Uzzah. Maybe you can try shepherding, facilitating the teaching and preaching, serving and evangelizing of the sheep... after all... isn't it the sheep who produce the milk for the babes, doesn't the Pastor merely lead the fold to the right field.

Now, I speak to the nameless, faceless pastor, and quite poorly at that... because when I read through this it looks to me like the petty grumblings of youth mad at the system. So if you think I am talking about you... then it is not me talking but God, because my simple words are nothing to fear