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Yes, they do. But they are confused as to how to love themselves properly.LittleLion said:...Alcoholics, drug users, sado-mascohists, suiciders, etc. and the usual normal person who comfort eats himself every now and then and then feels sick -- do they love themselves?
Not so. It is an obvious fact that in countries that are predominantly Muslim (or other religion) that high percentages of the children follow the same path. Any sociologist can tell you that. Even clients of mine (I'm a counselor) who hang out with alcoholics are more prone to relapse when around these people. If we just go through life without using our heads (logic) we will be prone to many disasterous decisions. And society or the world as the Bible calls it does affect us. For that reason Paul tells us to not conform to the ways of this world (Romans 12:2).
And if it wasn't for logic we would all still be waiting for the tooth fairy or Santa Clause on Christmas.
God gave us a mind we shouldn't let it go to waste!
When I talk about faith with reason I am just saying don't let your faith be blind. There are so many people who don't use logic and reason and join cults and end up dead on the 10 o'clock news. I think we can all agree that it would have been good if they done some more thinking and checking.
Even what you are doing (seeking and asking questions) is using your God given brain and reason. You don't appear to me to be blindly making decisions. That's all I'm saying.
Even if there is evidence (outward signs) for anything when you have hundreds of signs it can be quite compelling.
And even if evidence is finite, it can still be helpful and compelling. That's why it is used in court rooms.
On your third point you are absolutely correct. No evidence is needed to have faith in God. Someone could place their faith in Christ with no evidence and find God. It is the people who are not so fortunate that I am concerned about.
We all can be mislead and many of us may want to make sure that at the very least what we believe in doesn't contradict itself.
"How can that be irrelevant?!
How can that be irrelevant?"
Because it doesn't change the fact that we are loved by God.
I think I already answered this question. Evidence and reason only help in the making of the decision to believe. I cannot prove without a doubt that God exists or that Jesus is God. I still have to demonstrate faith and this faith is in God.
"What is the proof that one has received the Holy Spirit?"
Very difficult to explain ... I might mess it up. You have to take the red pill and see what happens.
Well we may need to agree to disagree on that one. Morpheus did say "there is no turning back ... you stay in wonderland and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes."
Neo made a choice to seek the truth and he trusted (had faith) that Morpheus had the answers. He chose to get in the car and not turn Morpheus in to Smith when interrogated and believed that Morpheus was not a terrorist. He was putting things together from the moment he followed the white rabbit. Then Trinity new everything about him, Morpheus new the building he worked at so well. Neo used his head and reason and it helped him to trust Morpheus.
NO. Already answered this too. Faith not based on evidence but it helps.
As I said evidence is not necessary but may help.
Radagast said:Yes, they do. But they are confused as to how to love themselves properly.
Dante, in the Purgatorio (see my notes) points out that all sin results from misdirected love.
Love and help can be evidence of God. Maybe the problem is in calling it that, focussing on the result rather than the process.LittleLion said:They need love and help, not "evidence of God".
And you would want to know true things, not so? Things that justify action. Evidence is "at least some things".If I do not know something, then I cannot consciously, repsonsibly act on it or towards it. This is why I must know at least some things.
I don't think he is, just for citing the evidence he deems necessary to have a foundation to build one's faith on. Paul didn't say "and if Christ is not risen, our faith is futile" for no reason. The faith depends on the reality, and the reality cannot but have some things that can be known empirically. Faith may not need these things, but it does not deny these things either.Then you are still clinging on to evidence, and think faith is based on evidence.
To whom do you have to prove that God exists, and why do you feel called to do so?
John gave this simple test (although it does not go into detail about the fruit of the Spirit and other evidence - see 1 John 3 and Gal. 5:16-26), which connects with what I said above:No. This is not good enough.
Love and help can be evidence of God. Maybe the problem is in calling it that, focussing on the result rather than the process.
And you would want to know true things, not so? Things that justify action.
Evidence is "at least some things".
I don't think he is, just for citing the evidence he deems necessary to have a foundation to build one's faith on.
Paul didn't say "and if Christ is not risen, our faith is futile" for no reason.
Well, no, I'm not.LittleLion said:You are employing the problem-solving strategy of re-organizing the problem. This can bring one a lot further, yes.
What I meant was -- drug addicts, alcoholics, anorexics etc are searching for something which drugs, alcohol, starvation etc cannot deliver.
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