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Oh, I don't think the OP is as specific as the poster intended from the discussion so far.
I would however like to add an element that I don't thing either of us has touched on that might be important to the discussion and fits your analogy well. That is the role of landmarks. I think even in beliefs, we can have landmarks that help us find out way. Scripture even talks about not leaving man without evidence. I think of these as more of landmarks to mark our way than anything else. Man seems to be drawn to God, the trick is finding our way to Him. Just a thought for what it's worth
what would be just? If one breaks a law, what would be the just way to handle it?Actually, this was the main motivation of the book. You see, unlike traditional Christianity, I do not believe in eternal Hell. It is more of an event, like throwing someone into a Lake of Fire and destroying them. I too, have a problem with God creating an eternal torture chamber and this is a good argument against eternal Hell. This doesn't glorify Him. Those in Heaven could not enjoy eternity with this knowledge of people suffering endlessly, so He would have to erase that from our memories. Even if He did, (and sin and evil memories would be logical to erase in Paradise), He would still have this awareness Himself. Why sustain punishment for people who have only sinned for a few decades or even eighty years? That is not justice as I see it. This is not the justice he teaches us in the Bible. Anyways, I partly agree with you. That said, if I am wrong, I would still worship God because I want to live forever and I'm sure His plan is perfect and just. We don't always understand, it's above our ability. Think about it, you know yourself and everything you did in life. God knows you better and 7 billion other people as well.
and answer to the question asked would be nice rather than a post that is intent on avoiding the question...that is usually how questions and answers work.What kind of answer were you expecting?
not sure what part of my post you are addressing, if you could be more specific I might know how to respond.Right, hell was created because of the wrong choices of satan and his demons. Or do you think satan didn't actually have a choice? I don't think God created hell for the heck of it, he has his righteous reasons for allowing things to exist and hell is the result of evil actions.
oh, I totally agree...I can agree with that absolutely.
Sometimes those landmarks may not be visible immediately or we don't see them till our state of mind or strength of faith allows it and I think it may even be possible we never consciously see them but that doesn't mean we didn't or they aren't helpful to us.
And I do realize this is spacey sounding stuff.
Disagree, don't have much for ya.
So your unwillingness to pray to God and give Him a the benefit of the doubt and then to top it off laugh it off ... not much more I can say to you. Bye.
Assuming God can create beings who are truly free to listen to him and do right or not, then it's the wrong actions of God's creation that creates hell. IOW, there would be no hell if we'd all just listen to God and do what's right and this is why God is worthy of our worship.
not sure what part of my post you are addressing, if you could be more specific I might know how to respond.
So you think it would just for a government to torture you for not crossing the road at the lights? I'm not talking about a prison sentence either, but never-ending torment. Would that be fair or grossly out of proportion with the crime?The analogy is perfect, your disconnection from reality, refusal to see it, and ability to throw a bunch of meaningless words at it, in attempt to refute it, is perfect as well.
First, what is this torment? Life in prison is likely torment, if it weren't some kind of torment, what's the point? Is Hell more or less torment? How much more or less, oh, you don't know?
Secondly, God just goes to different levels, just as someone may not like a prison, because they don't like the punishment doesn't make it unfair. The authority doesn't care if you *think* it's unfair.
The analogy is and analogy, not an exact replica and once again, works just fine, and not something you can refute, but I always get a kick out of watching you try...have at it.
what about all the atheists turned christian? Like our friend from church? I don't see any connection between the quoted poster and your comment, please explain the connection so we can follow your argumentWhat about all the atheists that used to be Christians? Like me for example...
Could you show how I have twisted the argument or apologise for lying about my position?please stop trying to twist arguments to suit your agenda...it wasn't even my argument and I can see how badly you twisted it...let's discuss in peace not with intent to stir anger and hostility, okay?
What about all the Christians turned atheist? Like me.what about all the atheists turned christian?
what would be the benefit of such a creation?An omnipotent god could have created us so that we always listened. And before you bring it up, this god could have done so without affecting free will.
we can say all kinds of things, but the quote you are responding to pointed out that scripture says that God created hell for Satan and his demons. It's a pretty straight forward comment, a bit hard to misunderstand I would think.I think it's important to understand that God created or prepared hell because of evil actions. If there were no evil actions, then hell would not exist. So you could say that evil actions is what caused hell, not necessarily God.
An omnipotent god could have created us so that we always listened. And before you bring it up, this god could have done so without affecting free will.
from experience, I have learned that doing so is against forum rules.Could you show how I have twisted the argument or apologise for lying about my position?
The analogy is perfect, your disconnection from reality, refusal to see it, and ability to throw a bunch of meaningless words at it, in attempt to refute it, is perfect as well.
I don't know, I asked you to explain how your comment related to the quote you were responding to, I did not ask you to repeat yourself as if I didn't read what you said. IOW's I don't know what you post had to do with the quote you were responding to, which is far different from not reading your post.What about all the Christians turned atheist? Like me.
Showing me how I have "twisted" another person's argument is against the rules, but wrongfully claiming that I have done so isn't against the rules?from experience, I have learned that doing so is against forum rules.
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