Starting today August 7th, 2024, in order to post in the Married Couples, Courting Couples, or Singles forums, you will not be allowed to post if you have your Marital status designated as private. Announcements will be made in the respective forums as well but please note that if yours is currently listed as Private, you will need to submit a ticket in the Support Area to have yours changed.
No, not according to the Urantia revelation which provides much more information than we previously had on earth about what happened. We are betrayed and confused Quatona, then we suffered from a second default when the incarnate Adam and Eve, the worlds new spiritual rulers, were outflanked (tricked) and defaulted, leading to still more of a mess. But they did repent right away, the did not fully invest in the rebellion against the fathers rule.Lucifer didn´t believe a God existed?
Rebellion? I was asking about the belief in the existence of a God since that was your original claim ("atheist").No, not according to the Urantia revelation which provides much more information than we previously had on earth about what happened. We are betrayed and confused Quatona, then we suffered from a second default when the incarnate Adam and Eve, the worlds new spiritual rulers, were outflanked (tricked) and defaulted, leading to still more of a mess. But they did repent right away, the did not fully invest in the rebellion against the fathers rule.
You said it was proof that "the universe is not entirely material/mechanical". It isn't proof. Personalities are functions of brain activity. We know this because you can change a personality by changing what happens in the brain.You missed the point. The twins are indeed individuals, they are personalities. We are minds that transcend the purely mathematical, we are free to observe the same universe in different ways.
I guess it means 'metaphysical'...Here are some quotes from the UB that may be effectively penetrating:
"A mechanistic philosophy of life and the universe cannot be scientific because science recognizes and deals only with materials and facts. Philosophy is inevitably superscientific.
Life is a physical process. Mind too.Man is a material fact of nature, but his life is a phenomenon which transcends the material levels of nature in that it exhibits the control attributes of mind and the creative qualities of spirit."
No, it doesn't. It implies a material consciousness."The very claim of materialism implies a supermaterial consciousness of the mind which presumes to assert such dogmas.
Biological machines like humans can.A mechanism might deteriorate, but it could never progress. Machines do not think, create, dream, aspire, idealize, hunger for truth, or thirst for righteousness. They do not motivate their lives with the passion to serve other machines and to choose as their goal of eternal progression the sublime task of finding God and striving to be like him. Machines are never intellectual, emotional, aesthetic, ethical, moral, or spiritual."
Argument from incredulity fallacy."How foolish to presume that an automaton could conceive a philosophy of automatism, and how ridiculous that it should presume to form such a concept of other and fellow automatons!"
The scientist is part of the universe, and the laws, mechanisms, and uniformities which the scientist discovers are descriptions of his observations of the universe, so... No."The universe is not like the laws, mechanisms, and the uniformities which the scientist discovers, and which he comes to regard as science, but rather like the curious, thinking, choosing, creative, combining, and discriminating scientist who thus observes universe phenomena and classifies the mathematical facts inherent in the mechanistic phases of the material side of creation.
"Material mind is the arena in which human personalities live, are self-conscious, make decisions, choose God or forsake him, eternalize or destroy themselves."
Coo, I can agree with this.
"Material evolution has provided you a life machine, your body
Ah, the 'Thought Adjuster', Urantia's McGuffin; as if it somehow lends credibility...the Father himself has endowed you with the purest spirit reality known in the universe, your Thought Adjuster. But into your hands, subject to your own decisions, has been given mind, and it is by mind that you live or die. It is within this mind and with this mind that you make those moral decisions which enable you to achieve Adjusterlikeness, and that is Godlikeness."
Good grief... why does this remind me of similar nonsense in Scientology?I knew you would like it Mark.
53:4.2 "Self-assertion was the battle cry of the Lucifer rebellion. One of his chief arguments was that, if self-government was good and right for the Melchizedeks and other groups, it was equally good for all orders of intelligence. He was bold and persistent in the advocacy of the “equality of mind” and “the brotherhood of intelligence.” He maintained that all government should be limited to the local planets and their voluntary confederation into the local systems. All other supervision he disallowed. He promised the Planetary Princes that they should rule the worlds as supreme executives. He denounced the location of legislative activities on the constellation headquarters and the conduct of judicial affairs on the universe capital. He contended that all these functions of government should be concentrated on the system capitals and proceeded to set up his own legislative assembly and organized his own tribunals under the jurisdiction of Satan And he directed that the princes on the apostate worlds do the same." UB 1955
The world is a manifestation of what is on high...so...the answer to "how" evidence is is used, is that it is used the same way. And being of the world and knowing the ways of the world, you know the "how" of it. But the "what" you do not know, except that I have told you that physical evidence is physical, while spiritual evidence is spiritual. You have your example.Tell me how spiritual evidence is used in a spiritual court.
Our "report" and those who have gone before...is indeed, "our report." However, collectively, they are more than our report - they are an unavoidable reality of life in the world. Denying it, is selective blindness.Ah, it's just that when you said, "this is our report" I thought you meant, 'this is our report'...
The blind do indeed have their own knowledge, but fall short of the truth, until the actual truth comes to light - sometimes taking millennia. You are quoting a false dichotomy.You may not like it, but appeal to tradition and appeal to the masses are both well-known fallacies.
I claim nothing - but I do point out what you have so selectively missed:Your claim, your burden of proof - you show me that math you say supports your idea - if you can.
Stop beating around the bush, please. Did Lucifer believe that a God existed or didn´t he? Did he believe that a "Godless universe" existed (your personal definition of "atheist") or didn´t he?Lucifer had faith, but then he became an Atheist, dedicated to godless ideals.
Originally he did, but then he did not. He then declared an insurrection and demanded that people follow him like a God. He tried to do the undoable. Lucifer claimed that mind was infallible.Stop beating around the bush, please. Did Lucifer believe that a God existed or didn´t he? Did he believe that a "Godless universe" existed (your personal definition of "atheist") or didn´t he?
Yes. He concluded that the God of Michael, aka Jesus, his creator brother, was a fraud. That's the God that Jesus referred to as his "Father." Lucifer came up with this idea that the unseen Father/God didn't really exist, that there was no God beyond the personalities of the universe that he did know.So later he did not believe that a God existed?
Source?Yes. He concluded that the God of Michael, aka Jesus, his creator brother, was a fraud. That's the God that Jesus referred to as his "Father." Lucifer came up with this idea that the unseen Father/God didn't really exist, that there was no God beyond the personalities of the universe that he did know.
I wish you'd make up your mind.ScottA said:this is our report
...it is not a "report"
...Our "report" ... is indeed, "our report."
I'm not denying the report (as I already made clear); I'm denying that it necessarily reports reality. The plural of report isn't reality, or you'd have to acknowledge all other religious beliefs as true.... collectively, they are more than our report - they are an unavoidable reality of life in the world. Denying it, is selective blindness.
This is all rather random... I didn't quote anything, and there's no dichotomy there - false or otherwise. Are you sure you're OK?The blind do indeed have their own knowledge, but fall short of the truth, until the actual truth comes to light - sometimes taking millennia. You are quoting a false dichotomy.
I'm aware of the quote. Einstein's is just one of many interpretations of time held by physicists - and such a 4D block omnitemporal universe view doesn't help your case, implying, as it does, that all action is deterministic and inevitable, thus negating libertarian dualist ideas of free will. Try again.I claim nothing - but I do point out what you have so selectively missed:
"...for us physicists believe the separation between past, present, and future is only an illusion, although a convincing one." -Einstein
So spiritual logic must work in the same way on spiritual evidence in the spiritual court as worldly logic does on worldly evidence in a worldly court - otherwise the world wouldn't be a manifestation of what is on high in respect of how evidence is used. Which would seem to contradict your 'simple fact' that "physical worldly logic, is different then spiritual logic".The world is a manifestation of what is on high...so...the answer to "how" evidence is is used, is that it is used the same way. And being of the world and knowing the ways of the world, you know the "how" of it.
I wish you'd make up your mind.
I'm not denying the report (as I already made clear); I'm denying that it necessarily reports reality. The plural of report isn't reality, or you'd have to acknowledge all other religious beliefs as true.
This is all rather random... I didn't quote anything, and there's no dichotomy there - false or otherwise. Are you sure you're OK?
I'm aware of the quote. Einstein's is just one of many interpretations of time held by physicists - and such a 4D block omnitemporal universe view doesn't help your case, implying, as it does, that all action is deterministic and inevitable, thus negating libertarian dualist ideas of free will. Try again.
Another example of you being completely ridiculous. I said physical and spiritual are different...and that the evidence of each is used the same - two different aspects completely. Straighten up or be ignored.So spiritual logic must work in the same way on spiritual evidence in the spiritual court as worldly logic does on worldly evidence in a worldly court - otherwise the world wouldn't be a manifestation of what is on high in respect of how evidence is used. Which would seem to contradict your 'simple fact' that "physical worldly logic, is different then spiritual logic".
I think you'd be able to explain how 'spiritual logic' works if you knew anything about it - or if you hadn't made it up.
Can you not see that if you say, "...to examine said spiritual evidence could only occur in a spiritual court", and when asked about how that evidence is used, you say, "The world is a manifestation of what is on high...so...the answer to "how" evidence is is used, is that it is used the same way", you're saying that the spiritual court uses spiritual evidence the same way a worldly court uses worldly evidence? and, in a worldy court, they examine worldly evidence using worldy logic (reasoning)... the implication seems clear.Another example of you being completely ridiculous. I said physical and spiritual are different...and that the evidence of each is used the same - two different aspects completely. Straighten up or be ignored.
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?