How does one become a Theistic Evolutionist?

Mallon · Aug 15, 2009

PT Calvinist said:
Ah...This same logic is why most Atheists are Atheists...

But atheists don't reject God simply because the earth is older than 6000 years. They reject God because they believe that if science doesn't align with a literal interpretation of the Bible, we must choose between faith in God and science. This is actually more in line with neocreationism than evolutionary creationism. Evolutionary creationists see no conflict between science and faith. We don't buy into such a false dichotomy.
The problem isn't with evolution or deep time; it's with the belief that science can somehow dispel God. Atheists and neocreationists are both wrong in that respect.

sfs · Aug 15, 2009

WingsOfEagles07 said:
Number 6 - Evolution does the same exact thing. If it comes from a Creationist site, it must be wrong. Creation looks at an evolutionist site, it must be wrong.

Science is not done by looking at web sites. Scientists look at data and try to explain it. To date, evolution has provided a very good explanation for a vast range of biological data. It has also made numerous predictions that have been confirmed by later observations, and it provides a framework for formulating fruitful research questions.

Creationism does none of these things. Creationists routinely ignore vast swaths of evidence, make few predictions, and have a nearly nonexistent track record in constructing a research program.

Until that situation changes, biologists (except those too heavily constrained by religious ideology) will continue to accept evolution as the best explanation for the history of life.

K9_Trainer · Aug 16, 2009

PT Calvinist said:
I was just wondering how a Bible believing person becomes a Theistic Evolutionist...Is Theistic Evolution even Biblical? If so, where in Scripture does one derive it from?

Simple. The Bible is not, nor was it meant to be, a scientifically and geographically accurate description of how the earth was formed. Genesis is poetry, it's allegorical. I don't believe the authors ever even intended it to be used as a scientific explanation as some do. The message of Genesis is that God created, and because He created, it's good and holds meaning.

How exactly God created simply does not matter, it's not essential to my salvation and evolution does not threaten Christianity.

Mick116 · Aug 16, 2009

PT Calvinist said:
I was just wondering how a Bible believing person becomes a Theistic Evolutionist...Is Theistic Evolution even Biblical? If so, where in Scripture does one derive it from?

I was a young-earth creationist... then I got an education. More specifically, a degree in science with major in biology.

I accept the theory of evolution because it makes sense of the available facts.

Tenebrae · Aug 16, 2009

For me theistic evolution is the only theory that made sense.

I dont buy creationism IMHO its a very sloppy pseudo science at best.

And I dont buy that the wonderfully complex being that is man somehow just evolved out of nothingness

I'm current doing an anatomy and psyiology paper and an organic chemistry paper as a part of my nursing training. Currently leaning about blood. Now as I sit and study about haemostasis (what happens when you graze skin or cut skin) and learn about the complex series of reactions that happen in order to stop us bleeding to death, and I marvel at the workmanship behind it. It is like wow.

juvenissun · Aug 16, 2009

PT Calvinist said:
I was just wondering how a Bible believing person becomes a Theistic Evolutionist...Is Theistic Evolution even Biblical? If so, where in Scripture does one derive it from?

They looked their own body and compare it with other animals. This is what happened.

They forgot, and insist to forget that they also have something called mind.

What a pity.

Willtor · Aug 16, 2009

juvenissun said:
They looked their own body and compare it with other animals. This is what happened.

They forgot, and insist to forget that they also have something called mind.

What a pity.

What?! Juvenissun, you can't just make stuff up about us and hope that we don't notice.

juvenissun · Aug 16, 2009

Tenebrae said:
For me theistic evolution is the only theory that made sense.

I dont buy creationism IMHO its a very sloppy pseudo science at best.

And I dont buy that the wonderfully complex being that is man somehow just evolved out of nothingness

I'm current doing an anatomy and psyiology paper and an organic chemistry paper as a part of my nursing training. Currently leaning about blood. Now as I sit and study about haemostasis (what happens when you graze skin or cut skin) and learn about the complex series of reactions that happen in order to stop us bleeding to death, and I marvel at the workmanship behind it. It is like wow.

According to creationism, the thing God created on the first DAY is the _______.

Do you think it is an example of sloppy pseudo science? Hey, wake up and learn.

juvenissun · Aug 16, 2009

Willtor said:
What?! Juvenissun, you can't just make stuff up about us and hope that we don't notice.

What did I make up? I am speaking of truth all the time.

Is the evolution all about physical stuff? Why don't you become a communist? They are all materialism.

Willtor · Aug 16, 2009

juvenissun said:
What did I make up? I am speaking of truth all the time.

You made up that we forget that we have minds. I don't recall any evolutionist (theistic or otherwise) saying that. On the contrary, it's a big point of contention and study. Certainly for me, it's a topic to which I give a lot of thought and reflection.

I don't know whether you really believe what you are saying about us, but you are wrong. It is not true. After quoting Sun Tzu regarding understanding one's enemy (though, I don't know why we seem to be your enemies) I would think you would be more aware.

juvenissun said:
Is the evolution all about physical stuff? Why don't you become a communist? They are all materialism.

I can't parse this.

Mallon · Aug 16, 2009

juvenissun said:
They looked their own body and compare it with other animals. This is what happened.

They forgot, and insist to forget that they also have something called mind.

What a pity.

Every evolutionary creationist I know acknowledges the human mind. We just don't acknowledge that its existence somehow refutes the evolution of humans from apes.

metherion · Aug 16, 2009

I just realized I jumped right into debating instead of answering the OP first. Silly me.

I became a TE because i was never taught everything in the Bible had to be literal. Both my parents are actually Ph.Ds in philosophy, so i had a very strange childhood when it comes to things like critical thinking and religion. (Philosophy of religion is one of their specialties.) I was also a big science kid.

When I first ran into the idea, I, being a child at the time, asked my parents. This is what they replied, broken down of course.
1. Nowhere does the Bible say it must be taken literally.
2. Nowhere does the Bible say it was given word for word and must be historically true.
3. God created the earth JUST AS MUCH as God inspired the Bible.
4. Therefore the earth is the Work of God just as much as the Bible is the Word of God.
5. Therefore God's Work and God's Word will line up.
6. Therefore if an interpretation of God's Word contradicts God's Work, that interpretation must be wrong.

(I was fairly good at basic logic at like 8, and they broke that down to basic if-then statements for me.)

It just seems to be a lot of YECs tend to forget 3 and 4. God created the heavens and the earth. Denying what is evident in them is disrespectful to God. After all, He created it for us, didn't He? It doesn't matter HOW He did it, Genesis 1:1. He did it.

Metherion

MrJDSmith · Aug 16, 2009

metherion said:
I just realized I jumped right into debating instead of answering the OP first. Silly me.

I became a TE because i was never taught everything in the Bible had to be literal. Both my parents are actually Ph.Ds in philosophy, so i had a very strange childhood when it comes to things like critical thinking and religion. (Philosophy of religion is one of their specialties.) I was also a big science kid.

When I first ran into the idea, I, being a child at the time, asked my parents. This is what they replied, broken down of course.
1. Nowhere does the Bible say it must be taken literally.
2. Nowhere does the Bible say it was given word for word and must be historically true.
3. God created the earth JUST AS MUCH as God inspired the Bible.
4. Therefore the earth is the Work of God just as much as the Bible is the Word of God.
5. Therefore God's Work and God's Word will line up.
6. Therefore if an interpretation of God's Word contradicts God's Work, that interpretation must be wrong.

(I was fairly good at basic logic at like 8, and they broke that down to basic if-then statements for me.)

It just seems to be a lot of YECs tend to forget 3 and 4. God created the heavens and the earth. Denying what is evident in them is disrespectful to God. After all, He created it for us, didn't He? It doesn't matter HOW He did it, Genesis 1:1. He did it.

Metherion

I'm stealing this for a signature tag line.

juvenissun · Aug 16, 2009

Mallon said:
Every evolutionary creationist I know acknowledges the human mind. We just don't acknowledge that its existence somehow refutes the evolution of humans from apes.

That is what I am saying. Every "evolutionary creationist" is deliberately blind on the"evolution" of intelligence, because there is no evidence for it. That is why they think they are apes.

juvenissun · Aug 16, 2009

Willtor said:
You made up that we forget that we have minds. I don't recall any evolutionist (theistic or otherwise) saying that. On the contrary, it's a big point of contention and study. Certainly for me, it's a topic to which I give a lot of thought and reflection.

I don't know whether you really believe what you are saying about us, but you are wrong. It is not true. After quoting Sun Tzu regarding understanding one's enemy (though, I don't know why we seem to be your enemies) I would think you would be more aware.

I can't parse this.

When you insist evolution, you are not thinking.
When you think, you deny evolution.

You can not have both. That is what TE dreaming about.

MrJDSmith · Aug 16, 2009

juvenissun said:
When you insist evolution, you are not thinking.
When you think, you deny evolution.

You can not have both. That is what TE dreaming about.

I'm thinking and not denying evolution.
Post proven wrong.

Willtor · Aug 16, 2009

juvenissun said:
When you insist evolution, you are not thinking.
When you think, you deny evolution.

You can not have both. That is what TE dreaming about.

If that helps you get through the day...

Tenebrae · Aug 16, 2009

juvenissun said:
According to creationism, the thing God created on the first DAY is the _______.

Do you think it is an example of sloppy pseudo science? Hey, wake up and learn.

Get as snarky as you like

It doesnt change the fact that the evidence does not support a 6 thousand year old earth

MattLangley · Aug 16, 2009

PT Calvinist said:
Ah...This same logic is why most Atheists are Atheists...

This logic is also why we no longer think the world is flat, that we no longer bleed people to cure them, and what all of our modern technologies are based upon.

You find overwhelming evidence for something you don't stick your head in the ground and hide from it, you take it and re-evaluate your stance. Evolution in no way removes God, it simply explains how God created us. A much more elegant explanation than special creation (he poofed it).

@WingsofEagles:

I'm guessing since you are challenging evolutionists (which coincidentally make up just about all reputable scientists in any related fields) to give proof of the first life and how it happened I am assuming you have proof of how special creation happened?

So where's your recorded and observed example of an entire lifeform poofing into existence to support the possibility that God just spontaneously made us. Or where's your observed example of God creating something in front of your eyes?

When you have that then you can use that against evolutionists, until then your attacks only show your own weakness.

MattLangley · Aug 16, 2009

juvenissun said:
When you insist evolution, you are not thinking.
When you think, you deny evolution.

You can not have both. That is what TE dreaming about.

You do realize that evolution is overwhelmingly accepted by the mass majority of scientists, ridiculously so for those in fields related to biology.

So apparently those, the people who are currently making all of the discoveries and progress in science, aren't thinking when they apply the theory of evolution to their every day work and it works?

I would suggest you step back and think a bit yourself.

There are those like Francis Collins. He is a Christian and one of the leading geneticists in the world. He was the Director of the Human Genome project. Apparently he could think well enough to successfully guide the mapping of the entire human genome but not when it comes to his application of evolution in his career? I don't buy it

You argument makes little sense.

How does one become a Theistic Evolutionist?

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