How Do You Understand This Verse?

[MrJim]

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

I'm particularly wondering about the part in bold.

Why wasn't scripture the pillar and ground of truth?
Why wasn't the Holy Spirit the pillar and ground of truth?

It's an interesting passage that has caused me some trouble-I know how the "organized" church interprets this-what is yours?

 

[ffinder]

I think that the church of the living God it refers to is all born again believers everywhere regardless of denomination i.e. i can learn much from baptists pentecostals the house church movement even orthodox minus the unscriptural. The sum of all is the pillar and ground of the truth.

 

[New_Wineskin]

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

I'm particularly wondering about the part in bold.

Why wasn't scripture the pillar and ground of truth?
Why wasn't the Holy Spirit the pillar and ground of truth?

It's an interesting passage that has caused me some trouble-I know how the "organized" church interprets this-what is yours?

It is a bit difficult to tell from that particular version so I read it in the one that I use . I consider that he is discussing that the Body is where the Lord has given truth . It almost looks like God could be the the pillar and ground depending on how the languages use such things .

I am certain that he is not writing what the groups calling themselves "churches" say he is writing . And , I am glad that there is no mention of the Scriptures in any way to link them to that passage .

 

[Johnnz]

Christ is the Truth
The church is Christ's body
His Truth is contained in His people - but not just as doctrine, but primarily as we truly reflect the reality of the indwelling Christ.

John
NZ

 

[MrJim]

And , I am glad that there is no mention of the Scriptures in any way to link them to that passage .

I'm not following...

 

[New_Wineskin]

I'm not following...

You asked :

Why wasn't scripture the pillar and ground of truth?

And , I am glad that there is no mention of the Scriptures in any way to link them to that passage .

People worship the Scriptures enough without more passages that they can twist to make them more of an idol . That is why I am glad . Not mentioning the Scriptures as the pillar or ground for truth is a good thing .

 

[MrJim]

You asked :



People worship the Scriptures enough without more passages that they can twist to make them more of an idol . That is why I am glad . Not mentioning the Scriptures as the pillar or ground for truth is a good thing .

I gotcha!

 

[New_Wineskin]

I gotcha!

 

[BalaamsAss51]

Hello Menno.

The properly functioning church exhibits and supports the truth by which its members live and move and have their being, the truth being nothing less than the incarnate and exalted Christ Himself. To use another Pauline image, in beholding the body of Christ, the church, men can come to know Christ.

Therefore, the church is where you go to be taught the truth about Christ. Certainly the Holy Spirit guides what the church does and Scripture is God's Word to us. But it is in the church that an individual is brought face to face with these things. Another translation of the word "ground" is bulwark. The church is a place where the truth is protected from false teaching.

Pax

 

[Honibee]

I'm reminded when Jesus told Peter He would build His church on truth Peter stated-
that Jesus IS the Son of the Living God, who had the words of life...

 

[Just Me Garry]

Actually Paul was writing to the Bishop (Pastor) and the deacons in the church.

1Ti 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

This was especially directed to the deacons of the church. Read the whole chapter and it will make more sense to you.

What did Jesus tell Peter:

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

 

[neviander]

I just did a quick strongs search on the word church; vedy interesteeng.

But to stay on topic, the whole passage: 1Timothy 3:14-15

"These things write I unto thee, hoping to come unto thee shortly: But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth."

This was directly after Paul explained how "bishops" and "deacons" should act and how they should maintain their own households, basically qualifications for being either; I imagine so there wouldn't be any bickering over it.

So, the "house of God" would be wherever the "church of the living God" meets. As for "the pillar and ground of the truth" well, God chose to spread the good news through us (all glory to Jesus of course) so we, the vessals of God, the church, are the pillars and ground of truth that rest on the foundation that Jesus laid. WOO HOO what a glorious thing God hath wrought! (not bragging, just happy)

 

[2cents]

Actually Paul was writing to the Bishop (Pastor) and the deacons in the church.

1Ti 3:15 But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

This was especially directed to the deacons of the church. Read the whole chapter and it will make more sense to you.

What did Jesus tell Peter:

Mat 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

Well, actually Paul is addressing his letter to Timothy, Timothy was not a Bishop or a Deacon, but Pauls missionary assistant. If I'm not mistaken, not one letter of the New Testament is addressed to a person called the "pastor" of such and such church, the "pastor" as we moderns use the term, did not exist as such in early Christianity, but is derived from the Roman Catholic priesthood.

 

[simplyg123]

the pillar and ground would be the support and foundation

The church is christians

The truth is The Gospel

It is up to us as christians to spread the truth

Therefore Brothers and sisters in christ are the foundation of the Gospel

 

[BrotherDave]

God is the pillar and ground of the truth.
The pillar and ground of truth (I Tim 3:15, Matt 16:18) cannot modify the word “church.” These words must modify the word “God.” The church of “God the pillar and ground of truth.” Christ is the Word, He is the truth. His name is True (1 John 5:20,Rev 19:11). How could it be that faulty sinful men (Rom 3:10) meeting in some solemn ecclesiastical meeting can ever be the foundation of truth?

This wrong understanding has set up a great many churches to neatly come out from being under the authority of the Bible. They have set themselves up to be the authority that rules over the Bible. It is this kind of thinking that has fostered an intense lack of fear of God. After all, as long as we carefully follow the doctrines our church holds recognizing that the church is the pillar and ground of truth, then we know we are being faithful to all that God would have us believe. Unfortunately, and sadly, this attitude must be considered to be dreadful arrogance and pride. The situation in the local churches of our day is very parallel to that which existed in Israel in the days of Jesus. For almost 1500 years, national Israel had been appointed by God to be the caretaker of the Word of God. No other people in the world were as intimately associated with God as was Israel. In fact, God used holy men of Israel to write the Bible as the Holy Spirit moved them. And the Lord Jesus our Messiah came from the nation of Israel. Nevertheless, as God neared the time when He would shift from the institution of the nation of Israel being the caretaker of the Bible to the church age, Jesus had very ugly things to say about national Israel (Matthew 23:27-29,33; John 8:43-45).
God also says in Ephesians 2:20, 21:

And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord:

The apostles and prophets cannot be the foundation of the holy temple. The foundation of the apostles and prophets is the Word of God, Jesus Christ being the chief corner stone. Jesus is the Word that became flesh and dwelt among us. Thus, Christ is the foundation (I Corinthians 3:11). We could paraphrase this verse to read, “And are built upon the Word of God which is the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief-corner stone.”

Believing that the local church is the source of truth and is indestructible fosters the same kind of wrong thinking that Lucifer fell into. He wanted to be God (Isaiah 14:13-14), when in actuality, he had been created to be a ministering spirit (Hebrews 1:13).

We have to let God be true (Rom 3:4) and every man a liar. God is the pillar and ground of truth.

 

[Ben12]

“Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out.” (Revelation 3:12)

A pillar is one who supports, bears the load without wavering, always stedfast, faithful. There is a place in God where we are “stedfast, unmoveable”, (I Corinthians 15:58), “being rooted and grounded in love”, (Ephesians 3:17).

God is establishing His pillars, and upon them He shall build His kingdom in the days ahead. The process of producing OVERCOMERS results in receiving those who do gain the victory, and thus qualify for becoming His “pillar and ground of the truth”, (I Tim. 3:15), from whence the kingdom shall arise. Settled in Christ they are not blown about by every wind of doctrine. Founded upon the Rock they need not run to and fro, to seek Christ in the desert or in the far city. He dwells within them, and they dwell in Him.

“All ye inhabitants of the world, and dwellers on the earth, see ye, when He lifteth up an ensign on the mountains,” (Isa. 18:3). God’s ensign, His pillar and ground of the truth, shall not be pointing in first one direction, and then with a change of mind point in another direction. These shall KNOW THEIR GOD, and they shall consistently point men to HIM. Their lives shall be a solid, living declaration of truth. Their state of being shall challenge men and women to right-ness.

The opposite of this elect company is found in Proverbs 5:6, which well describes the religious harlot systems of Babylon, “Lest thou shouldest ponder the path of life, her ways are moveable, that thou canst not know them”. Moveable ways! Nothing stable. As the waves of the sea, driven and tossed, double minded in all their ways. Trying to serve God and the flesh at the same time, it is utter con-fusion.

But the “pillars” whom the Lord is preparing “know in Whom they have believed”, thus changing circumstances do not alter their standing. Trials and testings do not dim their vision. HE IS, and they are IN HIM.

 

[Jimmie1947]

1 Timothy 3:15
But if I tarry long, that thou mayest know how thou oughtest to behave thyself in the house of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and ground of the truth.

I'm particularly wondering about the part in bold.

Why wasn't scripture the pillar and ground of truth?
Why wasn't the Holy Spirit the pillar and ground of truth?

It's an interesting passage that has caused me some trouble-I know how the "organized" church interprets this-what is yours?

This is from the NIV version.

1Ti 3:14 Although I hope to come to you soon, I am writing you these instructions so that,
1Ti 3:15 if I am delayed, you will know how people ought to conduct themselves in God’s household, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and foundation of the truth.

If you are going to read King James may I suggest using the New King James version?

 

[Jimmie1947]

You asked :



People worship the Scriptures enough without more passages that they can twist to make them more of an idol . That is why I am glad . Not mentioning the Scriptures as the pillar or ground for truth is a good thing .

Do you really understand what scripture is?

Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
Jn 1:2 He was with God in the beginning.
Jn 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.
Jn 1:4 In him was life, and that life was the light of men.
Jn 1:5 The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.
Jn 1:6 There came a man who was sent from God; his name was John.
Jn 1:7 He came as a witness to testify concerning that light, so that through him all men might believe.
Jn 1:8 He himself was not the light; he came only as a witness to the light.
Jn 1:9 The true light that gives light to every man was coming into the world.
Jn 1:10 He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him.
Jn 1:11 He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
Jn 1:12 Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God—
Jn 1:13 children born not of natural descent, nor of human decision or a husband’s will, but born of God.
Jn 1:14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the One and Only, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.
Jn 1:15 John testifies concerning him. He cries out, saying, "This was he of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has surpassed me because he was before me.’ "
Jn 1:16 From the fullness of his grace we have all received one blessing after another.
Jn 1:17 For the law was given through Moses; grace and truth came through Jesus Christ.
Jn 1:18 No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only, who is at the Father’s side, has made him known.