How do you know?

HI Trippe,
I haven't been around for awhile so I don't know your history. So what I write here applies to the disorder of OCD which I'm assuming you may be afflicted with. I say this because your comments are pretty typical of religious OCD. I like to call them abnormally, normal as far as OCD goes.
I struggled for a very long time trying to gain a feeling of certainty about those very same questions. But all that struggliing and looking for the perfect reassurance is part and parcel of the compulsive side of the disorder and the more you engage in those activities the worse the OCD will get.
So...(and this a difficult task), since those activities make the disorder worse you have to learn to stop enaging in them.
I had to turn away from those questions and just accept the feelings of uncertainty that they caused. I had to choose to believe in and follow Christ without my emotions cooperating with me. I just had to give up that war because the harder I fought it the worse I felt. I even ended up saying something like this: "Even if He never saves me, even if I end up in hell after all I will still follow Him to the best of my ability and ......even in Hell I would still praise His name." Now making that statement wreaked havoc with my emotions, especially in the beginning. But in the end it helped me to ignore the obsessions when they came and eventually over a long period of time they lost their power to frighten me. The quote above is an example of aggressive exposure therapy being applied to the worst of my obsessions. It's like fighting fire with fire. It's saying to the fear... OK.. I give in ... bring it on.. throw your worst at me and I'll not flinch!! Meaning - "I'm not gonna run from you, fight with you or give in to your demand that I keep on seeking reassurance."
OCD is a bully and the only way to handle a bully is to let him know that he can't intimidate you anymore.
I know that my posts can seem really annoying. It may appear that I'm insensitive or lack empathy for your concerns. Trust me that's not the case. I am intimately aquainted with your pain. I won't, however, cooperate with your OCD by providing reassurances about the content of your obsessions because I know that to do so will only drive you deeper into the obsession/compulsion cycle.
I'm in your corner though, pulling for you in prayer.
Mitzi

trippe said:

How do you know that you truly believe in your heart and that you have accepted, recieved, had faith and trusted in Jesus for your salvation? I have been told that when you ask Jesus into your heart that you are saved but anyone can say words. Im afraid the attitude of my heart is all wrong and that i will never be saved if im not already. I already know what it takes to be saved and what the Bible says about it all but i think my heart is too hard and the unbelief is too bad to ever get any better. I just wish i would get better.

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trippe said:

How do you know that you truly believe in your heart and that you have accepted, recieved, had faith and trusted in Jesus for your salvation? I have been told that when you ask Jesus into your heart that you are saved but anyone can say words. Im afraid the attitude of my heart is all wrong and that i will never be saved if im not already. I already know what it takes to be saved and what the Bible says about it all but i think my heart is too hard and the unbelief is too bad to ever get any better. I just wish i would get better.

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While "ocd" has a habit, a continous one to cause someone to question things, this is also a question that is common amongst those who do not have it (imagine that )

Our faith when we first come to Him is full of impurities, our Faith and Heart is like a gemstone, through trials and tribulations He will refine it in the fire, the fire gets hot at times but in the very end of it all, all of the impurities all the dross will be removed and your faith and heart will become pure.

Many people even on this forum are going through this fire, and they realize it not.

Scriptures say that Jesus is the author and the finisher of our Faith. You can be sure that He will finish you out.

The whole "what if I do not believe" , "what if my faith will not endure" is a common suggestion(vain imagination) that rides inside the mind (the battlefield)

It is very common in the body of Christ.

Most of our intentions and attitudes for coming to Him and trusting in Him can be false, we need to renew our minds, and God will change and give you the right intentions and attitude that HE wants.

The Christian walk is a long and hard road.

Our heart becomes hard through the decietfulness of sin scriptures say. That is why we need to confess these sins and repent from them, God is more than able to give us a flesh of heart and cause us to walk in HIS ways.

Keep fighting the good fight of faith.

trippe said:

How can i claim the promises of the Bible when I dont think that i truly believe in the existence of God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit or even if the Bible is true. I want to more than anything and i beg God all the time to save me and i hate the unbelief as well as all my other sins but it never stops it never ends. Im so tired physically, mentally, spiritually and emotionally.

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If you want it more than anything mate, than what youu need to do is ask the Lord to give you that ounce of faith and capability to believe.

It is easy for things to come together and realize that His Word is Truth when you get yourself a strong foundation.

God will give you the capability, but we need to take that leap of faith in the begining at times.

Look around you, the creation, how everything is orchestrated to perfection, how all things work out for the good as scriptures say.

If you seek Him with all of your heart, scriptures say that you will find Him.

I am very poor in apologetics so for me to try to explain to you how I know God exists is not going to work.

Jesus said that if we abide in Him, and are obedient, and not compromise His Word not only will He manifest Himself in us but He will show us the deep things about Him.

trippe said:

I have asked God for that, read the case for faith, wathced the case for christ, the case for a creator, and the case for faith. I have read books i read the bible twice a day i talk to pastors and many other christians. Yet i still dont understand how to have faith or what it means i dont know how to do the things that i have mentioned in my previous posts. People tell me that you just do it but that doesnt make sense to me my mind wont work let me operate like that. I just dont know anything anymore.

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Hi Trippe,
Do you think faith is a feeling or a choice? I can't feel my faith is the biggest hurdle to get over for those of us with OCD. Faith in God must be chosen. It's meant to be acted "out of" in the same way we see "out of" our eyes. CS Lewis said (paraphrased by me) " that if we were to try and take our eyes out of our head and examine them to see if they were working properly that we'd no longer be able to see. In the same way - when we try to take our faith out and turn it over and over to examine whether or not it's real or valid all feelings of faith seem to flee from us." All the books that you read can only persuade you to choose to believe in or have faith in Christ. Once you've chosen to place your faith in Him you begin to live your life based upon that choice and in so doing you are acting "out of" your faith. I don't know if that helps you at all but it really helped me to let go of searching for proof or evidence that my faith was real or valid. I choose to believe in Christ. I choose to trust in Him and have faith in His offer of salvation because there is no other path that gives my life meaning and purpose. Then I do my level best to act upon that faith by living out my faith in the activities of my life.
Praying for you.
Mitzi

Do you think faith is a feeling or a choice? I can't feel my faith is the biggest hurdle to get over for those of us with OCD. Faith in God must be chosen. It's meant to be acted "out of" in the same way we see "out of" our eyes.

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This is all very complicated because unfortunately christianity as in the institution of christianity has made it complicated .The institution with all its branches and dogmas left and right , this ism this ist .this label that label is like a Government Beuracracy ..In other words the truth is there but if you leave it up to them you will be hard pressed to find it in many many cases .So I dont think the problem just lyes in your ability or disability to believe Trippe ..I think man has brought a great deal of confusion to man and its just riducolous . so don't put so much pressure on yourself . frankly you can choose to believe sort of but you cant force yourself to believe something that you don't truelly believe ..its actually intellectually dishonest ..and its also a fraud ..

For example Some Christians will use the threat of Hell to force people in believing or have a conversion experience and while fear of hell Is a LEGITIMATE reason to come to Christ ..Somehow i dont think that Jesus came to scare the Bejesus out of people .. And i think Good pastors in their zeal and love for others have procured thousands of false conversions based on fear alone . And then they wonder why they start living their old lives again .. well ..what do you expec

But getting back to you personally you cannot make yourself believe what you dont believe and truely be sincire at the same time .. Now God can create faith in us ..and we can choose to throw ourselves on the mercy of God if he is there and say Lord if you are there if its all true show me the way .. but we have to come as we are and we have to come as honestly as we can and we need to be honest with ourselves ... which you are doing quite well .

trippe said:

How do you know that you truly believe in your heart and that you have accepted, recieved, had faith and trusted in Jesus for your salvation? I have been told that when you ask Jesus into your heart that you are saved but anyone can say words. Im afraid the attitude of my heart is all wrong and that i will never be saved if im not already. I already know what it takes to be saved and what the Bible says about it all but i think my heart is too hard and the unbelief is too bad to ever get any better. I just wish i would get better.

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Don't worry, there's a God. How else did all this stuff get here? A simple idea, pray to God, to help your unbelief.

trippe said:

How can i claim the promises of the Bible when I dont think that i truly believe in the existence of God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit or even if the Bible is true. I want to more than anything and i beg God all the time to save me and i hate the unbelief as well as all my other sins but it never stops it never ends. Im so tired physically, mentally, spiritually and emotionally.

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Trippe,
How can you hate a feeling of unbelief or sinful behavior without faith? Why should they be wrong or upsetting to you if there is no God? Why should you care two hoots about going against the scriptures if you are utterly devoid of any belief that they are true? Who are you talking to when you "Beg God to save you"? You obviously have faith in God but your OCD is doing it's darndest to make you doubt whether you do or not. That is why it's called "the doubting disease".
I'll say it again. Faith is a choice. It is not something that we set about to prove scientifically. It's not dependent on our emotional condition. "We walk by faith - not by sight."
Maybe you can relate to this quote from Sheldon VanAuken in his book:
"A Severe Mercy" (It encourages me)
"A choice was necessary: and there is no certainty. One can only choose a side. So I - I now choose my side: I choose beauty; I choose what I love. But choosing to believe is believing. It's all I can do - choose. I confess my doubts and ask my Lord Christ to enter my life. I do not know God is, I do but say: Be it unto me according to Thy will. I do not affirm that I am without doubt, I do but ask for help, having chosen, to overcome it. I do but say; Lord, I believe - help Thou my unbelief."

It is clear to me Trippe - that rejection of Christ is no option for you. You love Him too much. You desire Him too greatly. So follow Him. Shove right on past the feelings and accusations of doubt which are greatly exaggerated by your OCD. Walk Trippe - "walk by faith - not by sight."
"He knoweth my frame - He remembers that I am dust."
Mitzi