How do you discern?

[mendicant]

Hello all, first time poster here. I'm trying to find an answer to something, particularly how to distinguish OCD vs God/Holy Spirit. I'd love some fellow believers' input.

I was diagnosed with scrupulosity last year. My themes are almost entirely moral ones involving confession/restitution. (Things we can all agree have a place in the Christian faith, but which OCD can corrupt, like it can anything else it seems.) I've lurked on the forums for a long time to see if anyone has run into the problem of distinguishing between discerning God's will from OCD. The threads I've read about it have sometimes touched on it, but didn't seem to get really deep into it.

I've read things like:
1.) "Conviction is God pulling you towards Him, vs condemnation is full of fear, with no direction."
2.) "OCD never rests, always changes. Conviction will be definitive."
3.) "If it's conviction, you will have a peace about it."

I was rather shocked the other day when I spoke to a Christian (non-OCD) friend about this. Apparently, it is very abnormal (at least for non-OCD folk) to be unable to distinguish guilt, condemnation, conviction. To me, they've always felt the same, just one giant alarm bell. Fulfilling obsessions with compulsions always feel like they are obeying Him, and (transiently, of course) bring about a feeling of peace.

Can anyone relate? Please share. AND: In your day-to-day life, how do you distinguish between following God's will and plugging your ears to the OCD monster?

Thanks!

 

[SkyWriting]

Hello all, first time poster here. I'm trying to find an answer to something, particularly how to distinguish OCD vs God/Holy Spirit. I'd love some fellow believers' input.

I was diagnosed with scrupulosity last year. My themes are almost entirely moral ones involving confession/restitution. (Things we can all agree have a place in the Christian faith, but which OCD can corrupt, like it can anything else it seems.) I've lurked on the forums for a long time to see if anyone has run into the problem of distinguishing between discerning God's will from OCD. The threads I've read about it have sometimes touched on it, but didn't seem to get really deep into it.

I've read things like:
1.) "Conviction is God pulling you towards Him, vs condemnation is full of fear, with no direction."
2.) "OCD never rests, always changes. Conviction will be definitive."
3.) "If it's conviction, you will have a peace about it."

I was rather shocked the other day when I spoke to a Christian (non-OCD) friend about this. Apparently, it is very abnormal (at least for non-OCD folk) to be unable to distinguish guilt, condemnation, conviction. To me, they've always felt the same, just one giant alarm bell. Fulfilling obsessions with compulsions always feel like they are obeying Him, and (transiently, of course) bring about a feeling of peace.

Can anyone relate? Please share. AND: In your day-to-day life, how do you distinguish between following God's will and plugging your ears to the OCD monster?

Thanks!

God requires no actions from people. The only "Work" God requires is Trust
that He has everything planned for your best interest. Once you accept God
as having already made all the plans and taken all the actions, then you are
walking in God's plan for your life. His Will is for you to Trust Him.

 

[Halbhh]

God requires no actions from people. The only "Work" God requires is Trust
that He has everything planned for your best interest. Once you accept God
as having already made all the plans and taken all the actions, then you are
walking in God's plan for your life. His Will is for you to Trust Him.

We must remember Paul's grace doctrine in it's most elegant form in Ephesians 2 is *3* verses, not only 1 or 2. In full --

8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
10 For we are God’s handiwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do.

Sometimes people leave out part, and that has caused many to be led wrongly I think. If faith is real, then good works will be happening. If there are no good works, then there is no faith. This is valuable to know because the Spirit will pull us to do good works, and we must not rebel and ignore that feeling, that pull, to do what God has prepared for us to do! We need to know this as knowledge -- that we are to be doing good works, and then we can pay attention when the Spirit leads us, even if we have to delay some worldly plan we had in motion.... I may have thought it was important to finish mowing the lawn, because A, B, C, or D reasons, but when a neighbor looks at me, and I feel the pull that I should pause and talk with them, then in obedience to the Spirit I must give up that plan to finish mowing quickly, this time.

 

[Halbhh]

Hello all, first time poster here. I'm trying to find an answer to something, particularly how to distinguish OCD vs God/Holy Spirit. I'd love some fellow believers' input.

I was diagnosed with scrupulosity last year. My themes are almost entirely moral ones involving confession/restitution. (Things we can all agree have a place in the Christian faith, but which OCD can corrupt, like it can anything else it seems.) I've lurked on the forums for a long time to see if anyone has run into the problem of distinguishing between discerning God's will from OCD. The threads I've read about it have sometimes touched on it, but didn't seem to get really deep into it.

I've read things like:
1.) "Conviction is God pulling you towards Him, vs condemnation is full of fear, with no direction."
2.) "OCD never rests, always changes. Conviction will be definitive."
3.) "If it's conviction, you will have a peace about it."

I was rather shocked the other day when I spoke to a Christian (non-OCD) friend about this. Apparently, it is very abnormal (at least for non-OCD folk) to be unable to distinguish guilt, condemnation, conviction. To me, they've always felt the same, just one giant alarm bell. Fulfilling obsessions with compulsions always feel like they are obeying Him, and (transiently, of course) bring about a feeling of peace.

Can anyone relate? Please share. AND: In your day-to-day life, how do you distinguish between following God's will and plugging your ears to the OCD monster?

Thanks!

I feel a huge aid would be to find and read carefully what Christ said is the "greatest commandment", and do all 4 parts (I think the Gospel of Mark version which includes "with all of your might" -- everything you've got -- is very helpful) -- do all together even, fully. This is hard at first I remember, because I had to really focus. But *trying* is the key, because you will get there if you try.

Then, with this happening, you will be in a much better place to do all you should, and distinguish the real compared to just a compulsion. It will become easier to "love your neighbor as yourself", and you will more easily think of that in the moment, was my experience, because it brought me more into relationship with Him, and then I wanted more to do as He said to do.

 

[SkyWriting]

Sometimes people leave out part, and that has caused many to be led wrongly I think.

I always leave that part out.
Using the associative principal people conclude that
doing works will then save them or prove they are
saved. Not the case.

That passage poorly explains works.

 

[Halbhh]

I always leave that part out.
Using the associative principal people conclude that
doing works will then save them or prove they are
saved. Not the case.

That passage poorly explains works.

With all 3 verses, how could anyone miss "and not by works"? Perhaps someone could, but my feeling is that people thinking to be saved solely by works simply have never heard the grace doctrine. It's possible to go to the other mistake -- thinking grace means one can ignore the commandments of Christ.

That's just as bad, or according to Romans 2:6-16, even worse.

I like to say something like "grace and works go together like a hand and fingers" or "a fishing pole and fishing line" -- they are meant to be together, and we must come to Christ to be saved. But I notice that Paul's wording in the 3 verses is better than my metaphor, really.

 

[SkyWriting]

With all 3 verses, how could anyone miss "and not by works"? Perhaps someone could, but my feeling is that people thinking to be saved solely by works simply have never heard the grace doctrine. It's possible to go to the other mistake -- thinking grace means one can ignore the commandments of Christ.

No churches embrace that mistake.
The majority do think that works saves.

 

[SkyWriting]

I like to say something like "grace and works go together like a hand and fingers" or "a fishing pole and fishing line" -- they are meant to be together, and we must come to Christ to be saved. But I notice that Paul's wording in the 3 verses is better than my metaphor, really.

Like work and sweat. Sweat results from work
but does not prove work is present. Charming
enough for a new bible?

 

[Halbhh]

Like work and sweat. Sweat results from work
but does not prove work is present. Charming
enough for a new bible?

Now that I think on it a bit more, I think really Paul has worded this so well that it is sufficient simply to fully quote it. It has quite a message -- that through faith we are able to do good works God has prepared for us to do.

 

[AlexDTX]

Hello all, first time poster here. I'm trying to find an answer to something, particularly how to distinguish OCD vs God/Holy Spirit. I'd love some fellow believers' input.

I was diagnosed with scrupulosity last year. My themes are almost entirely moral ones involving confession/restitution. (Things we can all agree have a place in the Christian faith, but which OCD can corrupt, like it can anything else it seems.) I've lurked on the forums for a long time to see if anyone has run into the problem of distinguishing between discerning God's will from OCD. The threads I've read about it have sometimes touched on it, but didn't seem to get really deep into it.

I've read things like:
1.) "Conviction is God pulling you towards Him, vs condemnation is full of fear, with no direction."
2.) "OCD never rests, always changes. Conviction will be definitive."
3.) "If it's conviction, you will have a peace about it."

I was rather shocked the other day when I spoke to a Christian (non-OCD) friend about this. Apparently, it is very abnormal (at least for non-OCD folk) to be unable to distinguish guilt, condemnation, conviction. To me, they've always felt the same, just one giant alarm bell. Fulfilling obsessions with compulsions always feel like they are obeying Him, and (transiently, of course) bring about a feeling of peace.

Can anyone relate? Please share. AND: In your day-to-day life, how do you distinguish between following God's will and plugging your ears to the OCD monster?

Thanks!

I am having a little trouble understanding your dilemma. First of all, you are using a secular humanist concept against biblical truth. Obsessive Compulsive Disorder is not addressed in the Bible. Perhaps it is indirectly in an Old Testament story, but I am not aware of any such story.

And you seem to be using the OCD concept as an explanation for guilt and shame. Guilt and shame are most certainly in the Bible, but in regards to the new birth, the blood of Jesus washes all of that away. Hebrews speaks of the effectiveness of Christ's blood over the blood of bulls and goats in these terms:

Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Heb 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.​

Sin is not an issue that separates us from the love of Christ. Likewise, Paul tells the Romans:

Rom 8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.​

If you are struggling with guilt and shame there are only two possibilities. Either you have never experienced the new birth and are a Christian by name only, or, you do not believe that the blood of Jesus has permanently washed all your sins away and you are free from sin that separates you from the love of God.

I am speaking of our relationship with God through faith in the grace given us by Christ. I am not speaking about sin that impacts our lives and others. The consequence of sin still remains and if you are struggling with something such as pornography, Christ knows where you are and is there to help you through your difficulties. He gives us grace to repent, and aids us in our repentance.

I hope I have been helpful.

 

[Quad]

Hello all, first time poster here. I'm trying to find an answer to something, particularly how to distinguish OCD vs God/Holy Spirit. I'd love some fellow believers' input.

I was diagnosed with scrupulosity last year. My themes are almost entirely moral ones involving confession/restitution. (Things we can all agree have a place in the Christian faith, but which OCD can corrupt, like it can anything else it seems.) I've lurked on the forums for a long time to see if anyone has run into the problem of distinguishing between discerning God's will from OCD. The threads I've read about it have sometimes touched on it, but didn't seem to get really deep into it.

I've read things like:
1.) "Conviction is God pulling you towards Him, vs condemnation is full of fear, with no direction."
2.) "OCD never rests, always changes. Conviction will be definitive."
3.) "If it's conviction, you will have a peace about it."

I was rather shocked the other day when I spoke to a Christian (non-OCD) friend about this. Apparently, it is very abnormal (at least for non-OCD folk) to be unable to distinguish guilt, condemnation, conviction. To me, they've always felt the same, just one giant alarm bell. Fulfilling obsessions with compulsions always feel like they are obeying Him, and (transiently, of course) bring about a feeling of peace.

Can anyone relate? Please share. AND: In your day-to-day life, how do you distinguish between following God's will and plugging your ears to the OCD monster?

Thanks!

The discernment between OCD and the Holy spirit can be hard to explain because it happens on a psychological level. It's hard to put into words, so you have to get a 'feel' of it.

I look at it like this. When you are going through a peroid of OCD, there will be two types of pains you will experience.

A good pain, and a bad pain.

The good pain comes from God/Holy spirit. Think of it as a sword being tempered in fire. Even though the fire is painful, the sword becomes stronger through the burning flame. Through hardship and leaning on christ, you become renewed, and stronger than ever. This is a healthy pain that helps to overcome a lot of problems, including OCD.




The bad pain comes from OCD. There is nothing good that comes from indulging in OCD. It destroys your wellbeing and leaves you broken, and mentally damaged. You do not truly get stronger by acts of OCD. When you experience bad pain, you will feel really stressed out, and you will feel a lot worse than good pain.

You always want good pain, not bad pain.

But how do you truly discern your thoughts from God? The answer is logic.

There is nothing logical about OCD. Repeated handwashing, obsessive thoughts. Those thoughts don't make any sense. Those thoughts are illogical and hurt you.

God is logical. God makes sense. If you have a thought in your head that seems valid, reasonable, and morally valid, then chances are it's coming from God.

You must try to trust yourself to make the right choice to discern. It's also good to trust in the Lord, but don't underestimate the power you have in yourself to rely on your intuition. Your body doesn't lie to you.

 

[LoveHisPresence]

It's really interesting you said you suffer from scrupulosity confession/restitution. I think I suffer something similar to that where right now I ask forgiveness of people for, in my brothers words, "dumb stuff". I have an overactive conscience or a weak conscience as the bible puts it. I don't know the difference between condemnation or conviction either. It seems like they are one. I get both and have to do something about it. About God will, I am preoccupied with god daily moment by moment will for my life. I need to know so I can stay in fellowship with god because for many years of my Christian life I ignored God.
My instincts tell me (though, lately, that it's completely spiritual. At least in my case I believe, though the reason I'm posting here is because I have a per existing mental disorder and have been told by my psychiatrist that I have an obsession with morality. I put it this way, I make every decision a moral decision) the answer is spiritual. I'm still not completely clear on your specific struggles, but the bible calls my problem a weak conscience. And the answer I've read is to obey your conscience even if triggered easily.

 

[AlexDTX]

I look at it like this. When you are going through a peroid of OCD, there will be two types of pains you will experience.

A good pain, and a bad pain.

The good pain comes from God/Holy spirit. Think of it as a sword being tempered in fire. Even though the fire is painful, the sword becomes stronger through the burning flame. Through hardship and leaning on christ, you become renewed, and stronger than ever. This is a healthy pain that helps to overcome a lot of problems, including OCD.

This is nonsense. If you are experiencing psychological pain it is either from your own doing or a demonic attack. To attribute this to God is nonbiblical.

2Ti_1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.

But how do you truly discern your thoughts from God? The answer is logic.

God is logical. God makes sense. If you have a thought in your head that seems valid, reasonable, and morally valid, then chances are it's coming from God.

Very slippery slope. Even with the new birth we need our minds renewed and it is easy to see God from a natural, ie., logical mind.

1Co_2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Spiritual discernment is founded upon a healthy knowledge of the Bible. The Word of the Lord is forever settled in heaven. The communication of the Lord always agrees with Scriptures. We discern the Lord by the content of the communication agreeing with Scripture, not by logic. This is a dangerous point of view.

 

[Quad]

This is nonsense. If you are experiencing psychological pain it is either from your own doing or a demonic attack. To attribute this to God is nonbiblical.

2Ti_1:7 For God hath not given us the spirit of fear; but of power, and of love, and of a sound mind.


Very slippery slope. Even with the new birth we need our minds renewed and it is easy to see God from a natural, ie., logical mind.

1Co_2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

Spiritual discernment is founded upon a healthy knowledge of the Bible. The Word of the Lord is forever settled in heaven. The communication of the Lord always agrees with Scriptures. We discern the Lord by the content of the communication agreeing with Scripture, not by logic. This is a dangerous point of view.

It's not nonsense. Every tribulation, ordeal we go through, we always have a chance to come out of it stronger. We learn from our mistakes and grow a resistance to it. Overcoming a problem can be painful, but in return, it makes you stronger. That is a good pain.

I agree with you. Spiritual discernment is founded upon strong knowledge of the bible, but having a strong mind compliments that discernment.

The reason I talk about logic, is because a strong sense of logic is your first line of defense against a spiritual attack.

When the devil wants to destroy us, he will attack our mind with illogical fallacies, lies, and deceit. When we have a strong sense of validity (logic) about ourselves, which includes our spiritual and mental state of health; our defenses cannot be penetrated.

Our Holy spirit, faith, and mind, are one of our best weapons to defend against such attacks.

 

[AlexDTX]

I agree with you. Spiritual discernment is founded upon strong knowledge of the bible, but having a strong mind compliments that discernment.

A strong mind that remembers who we are in Christ, not just using natural logic.

 

[Quad]

A strong mind that remembers who we are in Christ, not just using natural logic.

Exactly, but when it is used correctly, natural logic is an aid with your walk with christ.

 

[mendicant]

Thanks all for the replies!

If you are struggling with guilt and shame there are only two possibilities. Either you have never experienced the new birth and are a Christian by name only, or, you do not believe that the blood of Jesus has permanently washed all your sins away and you are free from sin that separates you from the love of God.

AlexDTX, that has definitely been on my mind lately. I don't agree that just because something can be defined as a medical diagnosis, it should automatically be disregarded as humanist. A number of others have struggled with scrupulosity: John Bunyan, Martin Luther. (John Bunyan's Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners comes to mind as a great account of the struggles he went through.) Whether it is a psychological manifestation of a spiritual problem or a psychological weakness that becomes a spiritual thorn is more along my line of thought.

That said, this struggle did lead me to realize something. I have recently come to realize that the entirety of my faith has been fear-based, and I've come to question whether I have been regenerated. Looking back I see parallels between me and the Elder brother: always the 'good' sibling, always followed the rules. My acceptance to others has been performance based.

I have no doubt Jesus Christ is the Son of God. That's not a question for me. Unfortunately, I think that I'm in Nicodemus'/Elder brother shoes: lots of head knowledge, but when it comes to heart, I've been 'manufacturing' my obedience out of a wrong mindset of fear. I love little, because I see God as demanding as I repeatedly fail to live up to His standards. "He who is forgiven little, loves little."

So, I've gone back to basics, and have been asking God to do something only He can: "Create a new heart within me". True obedience will come from that naturally. Also, meditating on Romans 4:5, Matthew 11:28, Luke 11:13.

 

[AlexDTX]

Thanks all for the replies!



AlexDTX, that has definitely been on my mind lately. I don't agree that just because something can be defined as a medical diagnosis, it should automatically be disregarded as humanist. A number of others have struggled with scrupulosity: John Bunyan, Martin Luther. (John Bunyan's Grace Abounding to the Chief of Sinners comes to mind as a great account of the struggles he went through.) Whether it is a psychological manifestation of a spiritual problem or a psychological weakness that becomes a spiritual thorn is more along my line of thought.

That said, this struggle did lead me to realize something. I have recently come to realize that the entirety of my faith has been fear-based, and I've come to question whether I have been regenerated. Looking back I see parallels between me and the Elder brother: always the 'good' sibling, always followed the rules. My acceptance to others has been performance based.

I have no doubt Jesus Christ is the Son of God. That's not a question for me. Unfortunately, I think that I'm in Nicodemus'/Elder brother shoes: lots of head knowledge, but when it comes to heart, I've been 'manufacturing' my obedience out of a wrong mindset of fear. I love little, because I see God as demanding as I repeatedly fail to live up to His standards. "He who is forgiven little, loves little."

So, I've gone back to basics, and have been asking God to do something only He can: "Create a new heart within me". True obedience will come from that naturally. Also, meditating on Romans 4:5, Matthew 11:28, Luke 11:13.

God bless you Mendicant! I hope you find the peace in knowing that you are loved regardless of what you do, and that you are accepted into the beloved solely because of the finished work of Christ. May your heart become free in Him!