How do you deal with severe doubt?

[HighwayMan]

I guess this could be relevant to people of all faiths...

So what do you do when you're struggling trying to figure out what you truly believe in and it's bringing you down?

I am not a very religious person, but I like to think of myself as spiritual...however there is this terrible doubt that has been chocking me and I can't shake it off.

I want to "believe" (in any sort of spiritual path/life after death), I want to believe so very much...but then there's thing called "reality" that is telling me that by every logic and every reason, I am mistaken. There is simply nothing. And deep down I know this. I know it, but refuse to accept it with every fiber of my being and that is why I try to convince myself that I really do "believe", when I don't.

I hate it. I try to tell myself it's some kind of test of faith the higher powers have put on everyone...but again the "reality-thinking" tells me this is simply what I want to believe.

Its like an endless mind-game I can't get rid off. It makes everything seem hopeless, empty. "If there really is nothing...what's the point of going on at all?" - questions like that are really getting to me hard.

I do suppose though that my lack of concrete religion is making this harder, as I have nothing but my own isolated beliefs to hold on to. I don't know who else to ask really, that's why I'm asking here, hoping other people can share their experiences/offer advice.

 

[Digit]

Hello HighwayMan ,

I think basically, you need to find something that you -want- to believe in, and then pursue it and see if it is believable. If that makes sense?

For a long time, I didn't have any beliefs and I didn't care about them. I knew what I didn't believe in, and that was anything that demanded I change my life at all, I was independant and free, my life was my own.

It's a little bit of a shock to come full circle and realise that my life isn't my own, and that I am held up to standards which are impossible for me to obtain. Oddly, it's not something I really wantto believe it, but there was a shift during my own seek whereby the truth becomes undeniable. Reality, is often presented as plain. C.S Lewis wrote in one of his books, that the enemy's greatest trick is to convince us how plain and ordinary everything is. It's difficult to look at a brick, in your wall, and then believe in God, a supreme creator. The brick is so ordinary, and by contrast so is all of life, yet God is so fantastical and supernatural, how can He exist - next to a brick? Hehe, it's a strange argument some will say, but it's a difficult mindset you need to break out from in order to find real truth where you can look at reality as you say, but see God in it instead.

I'm not sure if that helped, is there something in particular in reality that you are thinking of?

Cheers!
Digit

 

[tapero]

I guess this could be relevant to people of all faiths...

So what do you do when you're struggling trying to figure out what you truly believe in and it's bringing you down?

I am not a very religious person, but I like to think of myself as spiritual...however there is this terrible doubt that has been chocking me and I can't shake it off.

I want to "believe" (in any sort of spiritual path/life after death), I want to believe so very much...but then there's thing called "reality" that is telling me that by every logic and every reason, I am mistaken. There is simply nothing. And deep down I know this. I know it, but refuse to accept it with every fiber of my being and that is why I try to convince myself that I really do "believe", when I don't.

I hate it. I try to tell myself it's some kind of test of faith the higher powers have put on everyone...but again the "reality-thinking" tells me this is simply what I want to believe.

Its like an endless mind-game I can't get rid off. It makes everything seem hopeless, empty. "If there really is nothing...what's the point of going on at all?" - questions like that are really getting to me hard.

I do suppose though that my lack of concrete religion is making this harder, as I have nothing but my own isolated beliefs to hold on to. I don't know who else to ask really, that's why I'm asking here, hoping other people can share their experiences/offer advice.

Hi, I dont' know for sure of course, but your post is an unusual one in the sense that I've never seen one like yours.

So, due to that, I would like to suggest that God may be calling you.

As many before coming to Christ have an awareness that life is empty and meaningless and what you wrote just lends me to that thinking.

God says if you seek me with all your heart you will find me.

If you are interested in doing so, you might like to read about Christ in the gospels. Read what He says.

As a Christian of course, God is the truth, and very real, and the bible is the truth of God and of other things as well.

Prior to my coming to christ, had no study, knowledge, thought of God, nor thoughts of eternity. Just never thought of such things.

Shortly before coming to Christ, I had a spiritual awareness. It was a matter of less than a month in which I came to Christ.

So, is easy for me to know why many don't think of God, etc, cause I know how I was, and can tell you to this day no clue why I heard. Heard meaning coming to Christ or answering the call. The call was not something identifiable, it's only in retrospect I see it that way.

So, if God is working on your heart, could be good to read about Jesus and see where that leads you.

I do know many many years before coming to Christ, a song came on the radio, and that song (a pop tune) was saying life is meaningless. It struck me the song and I pondered the song for some time but not life, just the song.

So, for some reason it stood out to me.

Bless you in your journey,
tapero

 

[HighwayMan]

Hello HighwayMan ,

I think basically, you need to find something that you -want- to believe in, and then pursue it and see if it is believable. If that makes sense?

For a long time, I didn't have any beliefs and I didn't care about them. I knew what I didn't believe in, and that was anything that demanded I change my life at all, I was independant and free, my life was my own.

It's a little bit of a shock to come full circle and realise that my life isn't my own, and that I am held up to standards which are impossible for me to obtain. Oddly, it's not something I really wantto believe it, but there was a shift during my own seek whereby the truth becomes undeniable. Reality, is often presented as plain. C.S Lewis wrote in one of his books, that the enemy's greatest trick is to convince us how plain and ordinary everything is. It's difficult to look at a brick, in your wall, and then believe in God, a supreme creator. The brick is so ordinary, and by contrast so is all of life, yet God is so fantastical and supernatural, how can He exist - next to a brick? Hehe, it's a strange argument some will say, but it's a difficult mindset you need to break out from in order to find real truth where you can look at reality as you say, but see God in it instead.

I'm not sure if that helped, is there something in particular in reality that you are thinking of?

Cheers!
Digit

hmm yes, that may be close to what I'm feeling. Things often just seem so ordinary, so devoid of any life in them. You wonder where is God, or where is anything spiritual when everything seems so plain. The one exception is nature, which clearly follows an intelligent design...however that can also be a lucky coincidence.

I suppose I am also getting discouraged by the unending "triumphs of science". Once upon a time peoples believed that the Sun and the Moon were Gods and Goddesses, that the Earth was the center of the universe...but those theories were found out to be painfully wrong. Then Darwin and evolution came along...now with cloning and synthetic life forms...its like everything sacred people have believed in is going up in flames.

Seems like the only place I'm finding anything spiritual in is imagination. It's my final frontier for faith, so to say. It is in imagination that I feel a connection to higher notions, to something more in this world. But reality is the one thing that doesn't go away once I stop believing it. (someone famous said this once). It's always there, telling me I'm hiding in my delusions and don't want to face the truth.

lol sorry for sounding so confusing, but I am indeed greatly confused myself.

oh and one more thing: reading the Bible sometimes does help. Even though again - I'm not part of a specific religion, it is comforting to know that there are still many, many people that firmly believe.

 

[Digit]

Heya HighwayMan,

Glad to see you back here.

hmm yes, that may be close to what I'm feeling. Things often just seem so ordinary, so devoid of any life in them. You wonder where is God, or where is anything spiritual when everything seems so plain. The one exception is nature, which clearly follows an intelligent design...however that can also be a lucky coincidence.

I have issues with evolution in general. I can understand the mechanics, I just wish we could observe it. The problem I have is in the sheer amount of chance that it takes for something as complex as our world to have evolved. I have not adopted an origins theory one way or another, I find things doubtful in both camps, the one I can find most common ground with is intelligent design, as at least they posit that we had a designer. A watch doesn't make itself, someone designed it, to be a functioning machine, with a purpose. Anyhow, I'm getting off topic.

I suppose I am also getting discouraged by the unending "triumphs of science". Once upon a time peoples believed that the Sun and the Moon were Gods and Goddesses, that the Earth was the center of the universe...but those theories were found out to be painfully wrong. Then Darwin and evolution came along...now with cloning and synthetic life forms...its like everything sacred people have believed in is going up in flames.

I think one can do a great deal of study in these areas, and still only know the tip of the iceberg. I think it's important to understand that science and religion are not mutuall exclusive principles. I mean think about it, if we believe in God, we believe that He created everything and that includes our minds, logic and method of reasoning - science. God would not create something like this to oppose Him, it is we that oppose Him through our interpretations of the evidence. We (Chrsitians and non-Christians) all share the same facts, the same evidence and have the same methods of deducing a conclusion from them. The main core difference, is that we have a different axiom. An axiom is a presupposition, it's a fact that we cannot prove, but we assume to be true based on our beliefs. It's assumed to be true for the purposes of further study or investigation. Now Christians have an axiom, it's the Bible, non-Christians profess they do not have any presuppositions, but they do. All logical thought is based on axioms. Have a read if you will, it gets complicated be warned. Now science uses axioms as much as we do as much as anything that professes logic does, with it we reach a conclusion. However if the axiom is different, we may interpret the results differently. For example, if the axiom was that there is an intelligent designer, then we would wonder why carbon dating returns very old time-frames, maybe there is something wrong with it, maybe it's axioms are incorrect. The assumptions that the dating system is pure, (ie, Not contaminated) and has always been so, is a large one. We don't know this for a fact, it's just assumed.

Again, I am rambling, but let me put it this way, these things should not be the foundation of your faith. Because they change. Medical science changes daily, a good scientific theory is one that is seen to stand the test of time, ten years down the line if it's still solid. Why base something like faith in the supernatural, on ever-changing physical theories? Again, recall that the Bible tells us that mankind is imperfect, even if we don't want to believe it, look to real life for examples, we make mistakes all the time, I am a level designer btw, in my day job, I use the same tool day in and day out and have done so for over a year. I know it backwards, yet I still make mistakes, really obvious mistakes. Why do we put so much faith in what is shown to us to be demonstrably incorrect over and over?

Again, I reiterate that it's important that these are not the foundation of your faith. I can heartily recommend two particular areas in the Bible that have helped me.

1 Thessalonians 5:21
"Test everything. Hold on to the good."

God doesn't want you to be ignorant, go and find answers if you are interested in something, but remember that faith plays an important role:

1 Hebrews 11

This talks about faith, what comes from it and why it's important. For me, this is the foundation or at least a part of it. There are many branches, and origins theory, genetics and biology are very interesting, but in everything profess and maintain loyalty to God, not to man. Especially when you realise that we live what? 70 years? A tiny timeframe in the grand scheme of things, what if in 90 years time a discovery is made that actually allows science to being testing the supernatural? Where does that leave the people that lived beforehand, who discarded faith due to overwhelming physical science, by imperfect mankind? That's why I feel God felt faith is important.

All the best!

Cheers,
Digit

 

[Digit]

Sorry I missed this bit. >_>

lol sorry for sounding so confusing, but I am indeed greatly confused myself.

Don't worry about it, we get a lot of people here with varying degress of certainty in their beliefs, so it really doesn't matter to us at all.

There are many good resources around that deal with specific things. I would recommend Tektonics for a good all round apologetics site. Just do a search for anything that you are curious about, I would be careful for the moment of venturing into the whole evolution/creation debacle, as I don't think it will help. It confused me, and if you are already confused, I think it will compound the problem, rather than help it.

Cheers!
Digit

 

[GreenMunchkin]

I guess this could be relevant to people of all faiths...

So what do you do when you're struggling trying to figure out what you truly believe in and it's bringing you down?

I am not a very religious person, but I like to think of myself as spiritual...however there is this terrible doubt that has been chocking me and I can't shake it off.

I want to "believe" (in any sort of spiritual path/life after death), I want to believe so very much...but then there's thing called "reality" that is telling me that by every logic and every reason, I am mistaken. There is simply nothing. And deep down I know this. I know it, but refuse to accept it with every fiber of my being and that is why I try to convince myself that I really do "believe", when I don't.

I hate it. I try to tell myself it's some kind of test of faith the higher powers have put on everyone...but again the "reality-thinking" tells me this is simply what I want to believe.

Its like an endless mind-game I can't get rid off. It makes everything seem hopeless, empty. "If there really is nothing...what's the point of going on at all?" - questions like that are really getting to me hard.

I do suppose though that my lack of concrete religion is making this harder, as I have nothing but my own isolated beliefs to hold on to. I don't know who else to ask really, that's why I'm asking here, hoping other people can share their experiences/offer advice.

Hi I hope you sign in again.

Something you need to remember is spirituality is every bit as real as something as solid as a table. I'm not sure what path you're following spiritually, but in terms of Christianity, there is enough evidence, both historical and experiential, to warrant absolute faith. Because it's based on something tangible.

The thing is, logic and reason really *can't* explain everything. Take rainbows, for example. They're created when water droplets split light... we know the scientific explanation. And yet something so mundane creating something as extraordinary as colours in the sky is inexplicable.

Spirituality really is much the same. We people are inherently spiritual because we were created by a spiritual being - we were created by God, and we all have a spark of that in us. So we ache if we aren't in touch with that spark.

Society today is very atheistic, and spirituality is mocked mercilessly. It tells us that we're all soulless beings and that nothing really matters, but of course it does. There is more than what we see.

Look at love. No-one can figure it out; we have no explanation for it. Science and "reality" can't explain it beyond saying it's nerve impulses... what a woefully inadequate reason. If "reality" is to be believed, love doesn't exist. It's just our synapses firing. But we know different, because we feel it and we experience it. Your feeling this spirituality, and your feeling there's more than this is every bit as real as your being able to experience love.

The "reality" is there *is* much more than we can see

 

[OldChurchGuy]

I guess this could be relevant to people of all faiths...

So what do you do when you're struggling trying to figure out what you truly believe in and it's bringing you down?

I am not a very religious person, but I like to think of myself as spiritual...however there is this terrible doubt that has been chocking me and I can't shake it off.

I want to "believe" (in any sort of spiritual path/life after death), I want to believe so very much...but then there's thing called "reality" that is telling me that by every logic and every reason, I am mistaken. There is simply nothing. And deep down I know this. I know it, but refuse to accept it with every fiber of my being and that is why I try to convince myself that I really do "believe", when I don't.

I hate it. I try to tell myself it's some kind of test of faith the higher powers have put on everyone...but again the "reality-thinking" tells me this is simply what I want to believe.

Its like an endless mind-game I can't get rid off. It makes everything seem hopeless, empty. "If there really is nothing...what's the point of going on at all?" - questions like that are really getting to me hard.

I do suppose though that my lack of concrete religion is making this harder, as I have nothing but my own isolated beliefs to hold on to. I don't know who else to ask really, that's why I'm asking here, hoping other people can share their experiences/offer advice.

Congratulations on being a thinking person of faith. May your journey prove to be enlightening and give you an inner peace.

As you can tell, it is not an easy journey but, for me anyway, it is will worth it.

If you are interested in some reading, two books come to mind. The first is rather thin but a very thought provoking book by J.B. Phillips entitled "Your God is Too Small". It is written from a Christian perspective and explores the idea that God may be disappointing to some people because they have put limits on God and, therefore, see God only in a narrow light.

The other is one I am reading right now by a woman with the last name of Hecht. The book is titled "Doubt: A History". I suggest it because it may be of comfort to see how societies from the ancient Greeks, to India, China, the MidEast, etc. all wrestled with the idea of God. The book covers a number of religions / philosophies, seems to be well researched, and is well written.

Question: The ideal religion for you would have what characteristics? For example, would it have a God which can be proven to exist? A theology that promotes love and care toward others? A theology that promotes survival of the fittest? A theology that promotes rational thought? Or.......

Ever curious,

OldChurchGuy

 

[Catherineanne]

I do suppose though that my lack of concrete religion is making this harder, as I have nothing but my own isolated beliefs to hold on to. I don't know who else to ask really, that's why I'm asking here, hoping other people can share their experiences/offer advice.

Hiya, Highwayman.

The first thing I would say is, you are trying too hard. Having faith is not about this kind of struggle, but rather about stopping the struggle, and being who you are.

I would say, therefore, consider that question before the bigger picture. Who are you to your friends, and those who love you? Are you a decent kind of person, kind, considerate, thoughtful, that kind of thing? Or are you a bit of a git, and rather more selfish than anything else?

Then, what kind of a person do you want to be? Think of your ideal, who would that person be like? Have you any idea of a person you would like to emulate?

For me, as for many Christians, we find this ideal in the person of Christ himself. And you find him in the gospels. You find his actions and you find his words. So, if you want to find out what he said and did, then that is the place to start.

This is more than enough as a start of any journey of faith, and we are all on that journey. Our beliefs are not a destination, and none of us has arrived as yet. Belief is a roadmap for the journey, and you are right to think that the journey is easier with a map. But with or without the map, your journey will continue, one step at a time, one day at a time.

You are correct in saying that without God, without eternity, this life is meaningless. That is your proof; it is already within you.

I wish you well.

 

[Peregrino]

To have faith is to have doubt. Faith is not knowledge. We have faith in things unseen, as the Pauline Epistles put it, so we don't have faith in mountains, the clouds and the sun, because we can immediately observe it.

On the other hand, what you call SEVERE DOUBT will go away when you realize it's not a "faith down" but an emotional down. How can you tell? Easy: if you had real "severe doubt", you wouldn't be a believer. But you are since you're "struggling" with it. Your faith is strong enough that you feel it's a fight. It's your emotional down that's biting at you. God is always there, it's you who are not. Get help from a good counselor, pastor or psychologist.

We can't touch the sun, but we can feel its rays. God is there for all to feel.

Warm hugs,
Peregrino.

--------------
P.S. Make sure it isn't depression you have: http://psychcentral.com/depquiz.htm

 

[Yekcidmij]

I want to "believe" (in any sort of spiritual path/life after death), I want to believe so very much...but then there's thing called "reality" that is telling me that by every logic and every reason, I am mistaken. There is simply nothing.

Where do you think logic and your ability to reason come from?

And deep down I know this. I know it, but refuse to accept it with every fiber of my being and that is why I try to convince myself that I really do "believe", when I don't.

Maybe the reason you refuse to accept God's non-existence is because He is real after all and maybe you know He's real but don't want to believe it?

 

[hlaltimus]

I guess this could be relevant to people of all faiths...

So what do you do when you're struggling trying to figure out what you truly believe in and it's bringing you down?

I am not a very religious person, but I like to think of myself as spiritual...however there is this terrible doubt that has been chocking me and I can't shake it off.

I want to "believe" (in any sort of spiritual path/life after death), I want to believe so very much...but then there's thing called "reality" that is telling me that by every logic and every reason, I am mistaken. There is simply nothing. And deep down I know this. I know it, but refuse to accept it with every fiber of my being and that is why I try to convince myself that I really do "believe", when I don't.

I hate it. I try to tell myself it's some kind of test of faith the higher powers have put on everyone...but again the "reality-thinking" tells me this is simply what I want to believe.

Its like an endless mind-game I can't get rid off. It makes everything seem hopeless, empty. "If there really is nothing...what's the point of going on at all?" - questions like that are really getting to me hard.

I do suppose though that my lack of concrete religion is making this harder, as I have nothing but my own isolated beliefs to hold on to. I don't know who else to ask really, that's why I'm asking here, hoping other people can share their experiences/offer advice.

Hi, You are experiencing a need, the satisfaction of which need must arise from the spiritual realm, which realm you have confined under the lonely term of, "simply nothing." This is puzzling to you because of your dependence, (I think,) upon rational, credible evidence rather than empirical evidence or evidence that is based upon experience alone. Suppose, just suppose that the Lord is really in this giving you a call, only it's an unfamiliar spiritual call that has come to you in the form of a deep inner need for something yet unknown to you which will satisfy this mysterious longing within which no physical provision has ever yet been able to fulfill. It just might be the right time, little caterpillar, to expand your concepts towards flight and away from crawling. Our rational minds are great and untapped resources for accomplishment as history has proven again and again, but in point of knowing God, a sole and entire dependence upon our human intellect alone is tantamount to excavating the Panama Canal with a teaspoon....It just won't work. Here is where the caterpillar who has locked himself up in the past doesn't really want to be troubled with these silly, useless, cumbersome winglike things now sticking out of his body that only seem to make his progress in crawling the more difficult. This baffling and irreconcilable difficulty you find is in reality a golden opportunity to "step out" and "step in" to an as yet unexplored potential realm of delight!
You confessed essentially that your "reality, logic & reason" tell you that there just isn't anything out there and so the "doubt" of any divine Being or supreme Creator. Why don't you try talking to "nothing" just in case your wrong and this unseen, "nothing" answers you? Try using those wings, they just might work! Go ahead...What have you got to loose? I am very much not poking fun at you either...I'm very serious in this even though I am using unorthodox illustration to try to make a point.
Ask God to manifest Himself to you in some special and as yet unaccountable way...He is more than able to make Himself known to those who seek Him with all of their hearts. Now if limited human reason and scientific evidence here are correct, if we are only a coincidence of evolution and totally without any divine Maker, than "nothing" cannot possibly answer those prayers, but "someone" could and just might.

"You shall seek me and find me, when you search for me with all your heart." Jeremiah 29:13

He's there, but you must search for Him with the new tools of prayer and sincerity. It will be well worth it.

 

[rocklife]

I guess this could be relevant to people of all faiths...

So what do you do when you're struggling trying to figure out what you truly believe in and it's bringing you down?

I am not a very religious person, but I like to think of myself as spiritual...however there is this terrible doubt that has been chocking me and I can't shake it off.

I want to "believe" (in any sort of spiritual path/life after death), I want to believe so very much...but then there's thing called "reality" that is telling me that by every logic and every reason, I am mistaken. There is simply nothing. And deep down I know this. I know it, but refuse to accept it with every fiber of my being and that is why I try to convince myself that I really do "believe", when I don't.

I hate it. I try to tell myself it's some kind of test of faith the higher powers have put on everyone...but again the "reality-thinking" tells me this is simply what I want to believe.

Its like an endless mind-game I can't get rid off. It makes everything seem hopeless, empty. "If there really is nothing...what's the point of going on at all?" - questions like that are really getting to me hard.

I do suppose though that my lack of concrete religion is making this harder, as I have nothing but my own isolated beliefs to hold on to. I don't know who else to ask really, that's why I'm asking here, hoping other people can share their experiences/offer advice.

death is one reality that brings me to have hope in God. there has to be more than just death and nothingness. the reason we die is because of sin, the punishment for sin is death, and we inherited it from our parents and their parents and their parents all the way up to Adam and Eve. God has given us all the freedom to choose, and He wants us to choose life, offering us eternal life through Jesus. Learning Jesus ways and teachings can help you more. I have had a near-death experience, so it may be easier for me to have hope that there is more purpose to this existence than just dying, but God can show that to you too, hopefully without too hard a lesson.

Keep searching for truth. but remember, death happens to us all, and God does give us hope of a better life than just death and nothingness, if we choose Him and seek to live His way and with His plans for our life. He has a plan for your life, and He is loving too, which is a wonderful blessing.

and to answer the title thread question, I deal with doubt by continuing to study, but also having faith that God our Creator will eventually answer all the rest that I just don't know right now, the Bible even says this time is like a clouded mirror, we only see part, but then, later, we will know all, and the Bible has so much hope, I urge you to keep reading it and studying, especially about Jesus. God bless