Archaeopteryx
Wanderer
How do you find truth if not by detecting and remedying errors in your thinking?
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How do you find truth if not by detecting and remedying errors in your thinking?Is science really self-correcting? Or is it what is true that is correcting it?
So it could be said that truth is correcting science because science is not trying to figure out the absolute truth, yet is continuously being corrected by what is true.
Seems like a flawed system that I don't want to trust. I'd rather trust truth.
Always in the direction of more and more accurate knowledge.That's what they say, but what science thinks one day has often been changed the next.
Not at all the same. Your knowledge of the OT god comes from the knowledge of Hebrews living thousands of years ago.To put blind faith in it (science) is not much different from putting blind faith in God.
That's one reason I like it, and at the same time do not blindly trust it. It has this ability (imperfectly applied since done by human beings) to be self-critical and to self-correct.
Well, in defense of theism, they do change their views from time to time.It's a characteristic I find lacking in the major religions... "hang on, we've been getting this badly wrong for at least the last few hundred years. We need a total rethink..."
It is being adjusted, by scientists, to be more in accord with what is true. Yes, reality, examined, results in amendments to our mental maps and models of reality. Which is what we operate by.Is science really self-correcting? Or is it what is true that is correcting it?
So it could be said that truth is correcting science because science is not trying to figure out the absolute truth, yet is continuously being corrected by what is true.
Seems like a flawed system that I don't want to trust. I'd rather trust truth.
It still depends on fallible human minds. Ancient myths depended on fallible human minds as well.
What doesn't depend on fallible human minds is truth.
Basically ~do you hold to free will or predestination~
PERHAPS YOU WILL ACCEPT FOLLOWING:Right, God created us in His image. He has free will, so He created us to have free will, the problem is that we are free to not accept Him, but He only does what is right and true. If someone rejects what is right and true, it will not end well for them.
God bless!
Yes. But that isn't the point. The point is that there is no reason why such a God cannot exist.
Like not believing cigarettes cause cancer?
Or stopping to believe that smoking is healthy?
Are you familiar with the Santa Clause issue?
If a man can believe he is a woman trapped in a man's body without any physical evidence then I guess another person can believe in God without any physical evidence.
If a man can believe he is a woman trapped in a man's body without any physical evidence then I guess another person can believe in God without any physical evidence.
Additionally, if someone does not believe in a god why would they believe that that god they do not believe in could punish them?
Of course people need evidence before they believe something, but the evidence does not have to be evidence that someone else that believes otherwise would accept as convincing. What direct physical evidence is there that any number of things exist that people choose to believe exist because of indirect physical evidence?
A belief, by definition, has to be chosen, if it's your personal belief. .
noted and lThere might be thibgs you here people say, and you're like 'oh, that sounds like it might be true'. But the thing that makes it your belief is the moment you choose- even if it's subconsciencly- to believe it..
We do? Only operating within the framework of certain beliefs, not universally held.And we all have a responsiblity to believe what the Bible tells us.
Name one reason to believe I should stop believing in the Bible.
Since there are none, I still believe it.
Christians are not closed minded...
...About evolution, it's not a good thing that some Christisns want to belief it.
I certainly am not going to argue against what you've said here, but I have been thinking that there's something missing from this whole thread (although the author of the OP may have intended to keep the topic to just the parameters he chose).
Yes, it is. But it isn't merely the formation of values.
You are again conflating the mere act of forming values, something that everyone does, with "religion," a term laden with supernatural baggage.
This is does not follow. That something is based on one's preferences does not imply that it is therefore supernatural.
We aren't talking about trivialities like cars and football teams here though . We are talking about things that cause people to fashion their behavior against their own instinctual preferences. things like belief in ecological purity , the brotherhood of man, the collective consciousness, the advance of civilization, the betterment of the species, etc. and there is no lack of religious dedication and zealous fervor that attends the devotees in those areas. The only difference from an Abrahamic or pagan religion being that these high priests and their followers are deniers of their own religiosity despite its obvious presence among them on the slim basis that they have not invoked any gods.Something, but there's no massive consensus as to what it is, nor is there usually the promotion or execution of any such at a level that I would consider "religious dedication".
Even with (almost all) those said to worship their car, or their football team, it would be hard to make a serious case, as opposed to a mocking one.
Chris
I never suggested that there was something "mere" about it. Read the context.I would suggest that there is nothing mere about one's value system.
Having principles that one abides by does not entail that one is religious.One's values are fairly important to one. So much so that one is sometimes willing to forego what one sees as one's own best interest to conform to them. When that is the case one does not see those values as fleeting and fungible but overriding and insistent. In other words one is religious in following a moral code. When one finds that one's moral code influences one's conduct despite the fact that such a moral code does not stem from one's own basic needs or wants but from something one sees as greater than even one's own self that is religion as it is based upon the belief that there is something greater than oneself that has the right to command one's respect and to demand action or inaction from one.
That's not all religion is though, is it?So if one person acts benevolently or decides against acting malevolently because of their belief in a god while another does so because of their belief in the brotherhood of man or the collective or whatever other thing they esteem above their own personal comfort that is based upon the same basic thing i.e. a belief system which holds that something is greater than oneself and has the right to demand conformity. That is exactly what religion is all about.
That something is not tangible does not entail that it is therefore supernatural. That something is considered important, that it is valued, does not entail that it is therefore supernatural.Esteeming something above oneself enough to be informed of what one ought to do and refrain from doing. For some that something happens to be a god for others it is something else. But for a large percentage of the population it is something supernatural , a god, an idea, a philosophy or a vision of some utopian society none of which are tangible and natural things but supernatural in that they are seen as more important than the physical universe in terms of allegiance and preeminence in the life of the believer.
You're attempting to inject the supernatural into it. I'm merely pointing out that your reasoning doesn't follow. The propensity to form values is universal, and not intrinsically religious per se.Values are not formed from nothing some are arrived at by reason but if we are honest those are very few in number . Some may well be innate but IMO most are given to us by our predecessors or we are indoctrinated into them by our peers using the "supernatural" as guide. You seem hung up on the supernatural part as if you conflate supernatural with imaginary or magical. If one sees the supernatural simply as something not physical that is not bound by physical properties one does not find the term as demeaning or as confining to the magical and whimsical as you seem to think it ought to be .
This does not appear to follow. Why would "the natural" have you follow your instincts only? In what way does the supernatural enable you to form values?I did not say anything about being based on one's preference now did I? If something is based upon something other than the natural that is perceived as having moral authority over actions greater than the natural, then from what I can see it is supernatural. If I do not do what I want to do instinctively but do something else because I believe in something greater than myself that is what I would consider being influenced by the supernatural because the natural would have me follow my instinct.
I don't think you've provided an explanation at all. You've simply stated that you consider our tendency to form values supernatural. That's it.If you have a better explanation for this phenomenon where we act against our basic natural instincts, I am all ears.
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