How do you balance evolution and creation?

[dbot]

Or do you at all?

I'm studying to be a marine biologist....or...to do something in that field anyway. Well I took a class titled "Natural history of Vertebrates", which was essentially an evolutionary biology class with a focus on marine life. And I have to tell you all. I really think I believe that evolution is true. I believe that dinosaurs probably turned into birds, and that all life probably has a common ancestor somewhere, and that we are a more derived version of some now extinct something or another.

However, right now, as I type this, I'm watching Planet Earth on dvd. And literally right now, is a part about grizzly bears who ascend to the barren, rocky parts of the Rockies. The bears are digging, turning over rocks, searching for something. They are searching for moths that are under the rocks. These moths are rich in fat, and help provide fat for the bears for coming hibernation. There is also a section that talks about distant rainfalls on a mountain in Africa spreading miles and miles away, turning some lowlands into flooded wetlands, allowing numerous species much needed water. And how when a whale dies and finally descends to the bottom of the ocean, it provides a feast for numerous species down in the abyss as well, some of which are only found on the skeletons of dead whales.

I see all this, and the one thing I've begun to take away as I rewatch this series, is simply this:

God Provides.

To me, its so incredible to see God at work in all of creation. Him watching over the bears and wolves and crocodiles and sharks and even mosquitos.

But my attempts to reconcile my differing views on life have run me aground. I've read christian authors present untruths about the theory of evolution, and talk about it as if evolution claims to have answers to everything, which science most certainly doesnt.

Has anyone else run into trouble with this as well?

And this is NOT AT ALL meant to be a debate between the two, so I would sincerely ask that no debate happen here. I am open to views from everyone, but I'm really just kinda looking for advice and for others thoughts.

I havent been here in forever either, and it's good to be back.

 

[Sketcher]

God certainly does provide, and He certainly knew what He was doing when He created everything and arranged it to be in the times and places where they are found.

How this happened, I do not know. I will say that Christians who believe in evolution have not satisfactorily explained how sin and death fit into the picture. We know they both exist, and that death for people is a consequence of sin and nothing else. We know that God made everything good, and the planet came under a curse when Adam and Eve disobeyed. And we of course know that the solution to that is the death and resurrection of Jesus Christ. We know that this happened.

 

[unkern]

Here are 2 sets of Youtube videos that may help you with this:

"Everything is spiritual part 1-5" by Rob bell

"Case for a creator" by Lee strobel

 

[K9_Trainer]

Simple....I'm a thiestic evolutionist.

God is the force behind evolution.

I had the same questions as you....I'm a science person myself, a wildlife biology major. I just quit letting people tell me I had to believe the Creation story to be a Christian. Truth is, you don't. I believe that to God, how we believe the earth came into question doesn't matter. We aren't going to be sent to hell for not believing what the human authors of Genesis wrote, that's silly.

I've learned to embrace evolution and science as a part of God's work. Whenever I look at Darwin's studies and other studies of evolution, I see God and how magnificant and powerful He is. How can something so complex and perfectly designed and organized be anything BUT God?

 

[Sketcher]

Simple....I'm a thiestic evolutionist.

God is the force behind evolution.

I had the same questions as you....I'm a science person myself, a wildlife biology major. I just quit letting people tell me I had to believe the Creation story to be a Christian. Truth is, you don't. I believe that to God, how we believe the earth came into question doesn't matter. We aren't going to be sent to hell for not believing what the human authors of Genesis wrote, that's silly.

I've learned to embrace evolution and science as a part of God's work. Whenever I look at Darwin's studies and other studies of evolution, I see God and how magnificant and powerful He is. How can something so complex and perfectly designed and organized be anything BUT God?

I'm curious, how do you deal with the origins of sin and death? I'm not after you or anything, I just want to know what theistic evolutionists say about that.

 

[BobW188]

Like K9 Trainer, I am a theistic evolutionist. I believe the Genesis creation accounts are poetic/metaphoric retellings of the evolutionary process, directed to a people who would not have comprehended today's scientific accounts, even if these could be reduced to Biblical brevity.
I might add that I think there is truth in metaphor and poetry. That my wife does not have a slender green stem and a petalled head does not mean she is "like a red, red rose.
At some point in our evolution, we reached a point that we don't think any other life form has: knowing what was right, we could (and too often did and do) choose to do wrong. This is really the basis of sin. as to death, I'll let someone else try that one; but will offer that it just may be that humankind is the only species that can forfeit immortality, not the only species who can acheive it.

 

[dbot]

but will offer that it just may be that humankind is the only species that can forfeit immortality, not the only species who can acheive it.

I would agree with that statement. If humans are the ones who sinned, then that would infer that the animals (who God does indeed care for) would still be perfect, doing Gods will for what they would do in their lives. Every time a dog runs to the window and barks at a squirrel, thats the dog doing what God put him on earth to do. When a Great White clobbers a sea lion from below, thats the shark doing what God put him on earth to do. If sin is going against God, then that would be something we do quite quite often, essentially making us imperfect, and incapable of entering into heaven.

LONG STORY SHORT, I believe that animals go to heaven.

 

[unkern]

I dont understand how one says that only part of the bible is correct, The bible is either all real or not choose one?
-did you know that Darwin became a christian and renounced his whole theory before he died.

Please check out the video's you'll like them.

 

[EspressoDuck]

I think that among Christians, evolution gets a really bad rap. Our first tendency is often to equate the word with some evil and entirely non-Christian belief.

I agree with those who believe that animals have adapted and evolved, under the control of the Creator.

Honestly though, I find the entire thing pretty dang irrelevant to my life. Knowing whether every animal was created in its final form or not doesn't really affect my walk with Jesus, KWIM?

 

[Blackguard_]

unkern,

It's not that hard actually. Some people use things to judge the bible e.g. reason, history, instead of judging everything by a literal interpretation of the bible.

Regarding the bible as all true does not mean you have to regard it as all literal.

Jesus, the guy who supposedly inspired the bible, taught almost exlusively in parables. God also delivered a lot of cryptic messages through the prophets.

Do you think the story Nathan told David about the rich man who stole a poor man's sheep actually happened? How about the story of the prodigal son? Do you think the end times are going to involve literal fire-breathing lion-headed horses? Do you beleive the damned will be thrown into the 1st century city dump of Jerusalem for eternity, i.e. Gehenna, the 'hell" Jesus talks of in English Bibles aside from one verse when he talks of "the gates of Hades", the Greek underworld?

Why should the the creation account(s) in genesis be taken literally?

Do you take Jesus literally when he said "this is my body/blood" about the bread and wine of communion?

 

[peanutbutter12]

dbot, being that I am on the board of directors for a Zoological Society in Pennsylvania, I feel where you're coming from. Evolution has been under attack by Christians for no good reason since around the 50's or 60's. People who are opposed usually have nothing biblical to back their statements when it comes to why evolution is a bad thing in the eyes of God... simply because it isn't. I personally feel we are part of creation. Things have taken millions of years to become what God intended them to be, which is a split second for him. So we see evolution in the process. We see life being made the way God intended it to be. Things don't just pop into view in perfect form, and who are we to limit God and say "he can't change this"?

That's just my whole view on it after seeing all the information for myself.

 

[Singapore]

Hm...maybe animals evolve but man doesnt? Haha cos man was God's fave creation!

 

[Jonesie]

I too have been recently struggling with this, but hopefully I am reaching solid ground with it. Several things need to be pointed out to Christians.

1) The Bible does not necessarily have to be taken literally in every single situation. Adam and Eve is a perfect example of this. Not only do we receive two creation accounts in two chapters, but the text was written much later than the actual event would have taken place. If you look at many other races and societies, you will find countless creation stories. This is man's nature to try to explain where he came from. I of course believe in God, but I have recently taken to the view that he created everything, and molded His creation into place. I must take this view because it is the only view that makes sense. Augustine also took the position that we should not try to take Scripture literally unless it is a history or instruction. In the case of Adam and Even that is simply a story because no historical evidence can be given.

2) Darwin was a scientist who believed in God. His faith was severely rattled at the death of his daughter Annie. This happens to the best of us. Up to the death of his daughter, his biggest problem with his faith was that he didn't understand why God would put beautiful creatures at the bottom of the ocean, or other things that he couldn't explain. Natural selection is a fact and it can be observed. Natural selection only has to do with traits in a species. If one dog is bigger and faster than another dog, the bigger faster dog is more likely to reproduce and pass his traits on. That's why as time has gone on humans and other species have gotten bigger, or smarter, or faster. It's all about adaptation. Some of Darwin's ideas have been misconstrued and they were attacked during their time.

3) The Church has done a very bad job of being reasonable over the centuries. Witch hunts, Crusades, etc, are all bologna. The Church morphed into something that it shouldn't (a different debate for a different day). The Church also tried to silence Galileo with his views heliocentrism. How stupid for them to think that they were scientists or experts. Galileo came close to death for announcing a scientific fact.

4) What really gets me and causes me to continue to question how all this works is this: Scientists have found several pre-cursors to Homo Sapiens. How in the world does that fit into the equation? And possibly better yet, which species do they believe that will split from? How does that fit?

I'm done. Hope that helps.

 

[jebiv]

Here's my take: I'm going to take "Evolution" as being the whole story that science has come up with, starting trillions of years ago with the big bang, and including the formation of the earth and the evolution of life on earth. It doesn't matter whether you believe this story or not, but know this: it works. It gives all the right answers in physics, astronomy, geology, and biology. So maybe God created the world to make it appear as if all this were true, or maybe it is true, or maybe there's something we just don't get. But it works, and you should use it when doing science or engineering or things like that. Lean not on your own understanding, and all that... I'm just going to say it's what happened.

 

[TwistTim]

I balance it like this.

If you look at DNA, or the eye of a fly, or the flight mechanics of a Bumblebee.... or the glory of a sunrise or the knowledge inherent to species for their survival, or if you look at a multitude of other things... actions, survival instincts, altruism....

you see not the capricious hand of a cruel random engine generating life from nothing (All Evolutions go back to a common ancestor which goes back to sludge on a rock after the Big Bang... which came from a collapsed super star which came from nowhere....) ......

but you see the handiwork of a Creator who gave thought to His creation....

and from studying other religions, Christianity is the most different, the most radical it must either be the truth, or the biggest lie, and if men were willing to die for it, then it's hard to conceive of 1000's of men dying for a lie over time.... but if it's a lie, then Buddhism is the only other truth that makes sense.... but that is either there is something or there is nothing.... we exist in the balance between the two.... and hardly how life truly is today..... so Christianity.... and if Christianity be true, we must take it to it's logical origin and accept it..... but if it's origins be false (Evolution instead of Creation) then we must reject that whole line of reasoning and find something else to follow.... rather than something founded on a set of lies.....

of course, take this as the rambling of a Grocery Clerk at a Grocery Store.... and reject it because I'm not enough of a scientist though I am a student of life, and spend my free time trying to learn even more about everything I can and do hold a College Degree in Computer Network Administration.....

 

[Ryan897]

my idea is that evolution and creation are the same. the bible said God made earth. it dosent say how. he made man from dirt why not earth. mabe he took alot of dirt molded it togather and made a big bang and their was earth. then he made animals. what if god made some at 1st then decided he dident like them so he changed them. mabe when he 1st made man we looked like apes, then later decided we should look like him.

and the bible dosent have a timeline so the earth could be billions mabe trillions of years old. God IS perfect. but cant he to change his mind. i meen hes god he can do what he wants. mabe he wanted to change his creations and used evolution.

now this is not backed by anything. this was me having to much time on my hands. its just something i see as possable

 

[kingoffools13]

my idea is that evolution and creation are the same. the bible said God made earth. it dosent say how. he made man from dirt why not earth. mabe he took alot of dirt molded it togather and made a big bang and their was earth. then he made animals. what if god made some at 1st then decided he dident like them so he changed them. mabe when he 1st made man we looked like apes, then later decided we should look like him.

and the bible dosent have a timeline so the earth could be billions maybe trillions of years old. God IS perfect. but cant he to change his mind. i meen hes god he can do what he wants. mabe he wanted to change his creations and used evolution.

now this is not backed by anything. this was me having to much time on my hands. its just something i see as possible

it actually does give some indication as to what God was thinking when He created man He says "Let us make man in our image" before He starts. also the Bible does list a very specific time line so it couldn't have been billions of years.

The important thing to remember with both models of our origin, is that Man was not around for it to take place, by the time there was a sentient man around intelligent enough to understand the story of our origin (be it instantly at the moment God created adam or over many eons through evolution) a majority if not all of the world was already in working order.

So where did Man learn how things came to be? From God, the inspiration/writer of the Bible. Now if you are what people are calling a theistic evolutionist what you must realize here is that if this is the case, then in essence the creation account in Genesis would be a lie. Being that God cannot tell lies, you must rethink your position on this. It doesn't matter what the format is, you can argue that it is poetic, maybe, maybe not, I happen to disagree and have delved deeply into the wording and studying how it was presented and i happen to disagree with this, but in the end, its the actual message that means something one way or another. it could be poetic, and still accurate (as i believe it to be) or it could be poetic and inaccurate (ie theistic evolution).

further arguments on this matter include the possibility of it being an allegory or parable like other parables found in the Bible, ie a hypothetical or fictitious story told merely to teach something and make a point. To which my only reply is that if this is the case, then someone should be able to show the over all point of God telling us fairy tales over being straight forward with us as to how it all happened ... what morals are shared through a fictitious account? what life lessons learned? the answer is none, and as such shows pretty clearly how thin the whole "poetic/allegory/life lesson" angle really is.

K
o
f

 

[Molal]

I am also a TE. The bible is a book of theology and not science.

In my opinion, to interpret genesis as literal places the interpretation in direct contradiction to the observed world.

I want to point out that ministry is a no debate area - as described in the FSGs. This is just a friendly reminder. We do have debate areas for origins, TE's and creationists in theology, as well as the physical sciences forum.

 

[Rosalila]

it actually does give some indication as to what God was thinking when He created man He says "Let us make man in our image" before He starts. also the Bible does list a very specific time line so it couldn't have been billions of years.

The important thing to remember with both models of our origin, is that Man was not around for it to take place, by the time there was a sentient man around intelligent enough to understand the story of our origin (be it instantly at the moment God created adam or over many eons through evolution) a majority if not all of the world was already in working order.

So where did Man learn how things came to be? From God, the inspiration/writer of the Bible. Now if you are what people are calling a theistic evolutionist what you must realize here is that if this is the case, then in essence the creation account in Genesis would be a lie. Being that God cannot tell lies, you must rethink your position on this. It doesn't matter what the format is, you can argue that it is poetic, maybe, maybe not, I happen to disagree and have delved deeply into the wording and studying how it was presented and i happen to disagree with this, but in the end, its the actual message that means something one way or another. it could be poetic, and still accurate (as i believe it to be) or it could be poetic and inaccurate (ie theistic evolution).

further arguments on this matter include the possibility of it being an allegory or parable like other parables found in the Bible, ie a hypothetical or fictitious story told merely to teach something and make a point. To which my only reply is that if this is the case, then someone should be able to show the over all point of God telling us fairy tales over being straight forward with us as to how it all happened ... what morals are shared through a fictitious account? what life lessons learned? the answer is none, and as such shows pretty clearly how thin the whole "poetic/allegory/life lesson" angle really is.

K
o
f

I agree with this. Too many people like to compromise the word of God. The creation account is clearly not to be taken in the metaphorical sense. It doesn't compare to the parables which were undoubtedly stories from which morals or lessons could be extracted. If the creation account is metaphorical, where would you draw the line between the literal and metaphorical? Everything else could be explained away as metaphorical. The Bible means what it says and it says what it means.

 

[*Starlight*]

you see not the capricious hand of a cruel random engine generating life from nothing (All Evolutions go back to a common ancestor which goes back to sludge on a rock after the Big Bang... which came from a collapsed super star which came from nowhere....)

Where did you get that idea from? I've never seen anyone claim that the Big Bang came from a collapsed star. And the development of life on Earth has no connection with the nature of the Big Bang anyway... these are two separate things. So it seems that you're arguing against something that no one actually believes.

Now if you are what people are calling a theistic evolutionist what you must realize here is that if this is the case, then in essence the creation account in Genesis would be a lie.

That's bad logic Just because something's not factual doesn't mean that it's a lie.




I balance evolution and creation in the way that I understand that the theory of evolution is currently the most accurate model of the development of life on Earth, while the creation story in the Bible isn't meant to be a scientific paper, but just a story. Of course it may convey some truths in a metaphorical way, like many stories do, but it's not a historical account or a scientific paper.