Hello, I am having trouble lately. How do we know God and Christ are real? How do we know everything, from the Bible's word, etc. is true? Thank you so much for your help! God bless you all!
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How do we know God is real?
- Thread starter KevinMartin
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lutherangerman
Senior Member
One thing which many people take as proof of God is that they can keep the faith even when it's getting hard. It is evidence of the Holy Spirit in us which gives us love for God and makes us patient. This is the sign of God, we can remain in the faith even when we don't see what we believe in. If you feel weak, go to other christians who have faith and let them care for you and tell you how they do it. Look at their face. Trust that God has touched all of us with His grace.
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His disciples and many, many other people have gone out to talk about what they had seen after Jesus' resurrection, and have been killed for it. Why would they do this if they knew it wasn't real? No one would do that, someone would confess to it not being real during the torture they experienced. Hence, God must be real.
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I can only speak for myself, but I don't know God is real. I don't know that other people are real. Even my own self might just be a dream.
I've had extremely vivid dreams which I was certain were real. For example, sometimes I dream I've returned to high school. In fact, only the other morning I had just such a dream, and I even mentioned to a character in the dream about the very same recurring dreams! I joked and laughed, not suspecting in the slightest that I was being tricked yet again. How do I know this isn't a dream right now? There is no way I can tell.
Rather than curl up and wait to die, I think it makes sense to just let the experience happen. To assume it is real, and see what comes next. This little act of faith seems the most appropriate response to this strange but interesting experience of existence I find myself in.
So KevinMartin, you're having troubles. I guess you want to be sure you're not wasting your life on what might be nothing more than a cultural meme. Why struggle to obey difficult rules of conduct when God may not exist, Jesus may be dead, and the Universe nothing more than an utterly meaningless random circumstance? Better to eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die.
If this is where you are at: congratulations! You are at a very important crossroads. The same crossroads that Adam and Eve found themselves in at the Garden of Eden. The same crossroads that Abraham found himself at when he was told to sacrifice Isaac. The same crossroads that Jesus found himself at in the Garden of Gethsemane.
People have all kinds of slick answers regarding the questions you ask, but it is only you who can judge if they are reasonable or not. An atheist will look at such answers and scoff, while a church attender will nod in agreement. Better to face this question yourself, than be lulled by the movement of the herd. Better to grapple and wrestle with it; have it consume all your thinking.
God gave humans the crossroads because he only wanted voluntary love. To be denied a choice would have meant us being nothing but automatons. Thus the act of faith is crucial in producing our authenticity. It is faith that changes the puppet into a real little boy. Faith is not knowing, but believing and trusting. When you have doubt faith is never more alive. When you have certainty, faith is dead.
I've had extremely vivid dreams which I was certain were real. For example, sometimes I dream I've returned to high school. In fact, only the other morning I had just such a dream, and I even mentioned to a character in the dream about the very same recurring dreams! I joked and laughed, not suspecting in the slightest that I was being tricked yet again. How do I know this isn't a dream right now? There is no way I can tell.
Rather than curl up and wait to die, I think it makes sense to just let the experience happen. To assume it is real, and see what comes next. This little act of faith seems the most appropriate response to this strange but interesting experience of existence I find myself in.
So KevinMartin, you're having troubles. I guess you want to be sure you're not wasting your life on what might be nothing more than a cultural meme. Why struggle to obey difficult rules of conduct when God may not exist, Jesus may be dead, and the Universe nothing more than an utterly meaningless random circumstance? Better to eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow we die.
If this is where you are at: congratulations! You are at a very important crossroads. The same crossroads that Adam and Eve found themselves in at the Garden of Eden. The same crossroads that Abraham found himself at when he was told to sacrifice Isaac. The same crossroads that Jesus found himself at in the Garden of Gethsemane.
People have all kinds of slick answers regarding the questions you ask, but it is only you who can judge if they are reasonable or not. An atheist will look at such answers and scoff, while a church attender will nod in agreement. Better to face this question yourself, than be lulled by the movement of the herd. Better to grapple and wrestle with it; have it consume all your thinking.
God gave humans the crossroads because he only wanted voluntary love. To be denied a choice would have meant us being nothing but automatons. Thus the act of faith is crucial in producing our authenticity. It is faith that changes the puppet into a real little boy. Faith is not knowing, but believing and trusting. When you have doubt faith is never more alive. When you have certainty, faith is dead.
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Lee52
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KevinMartin,
I LIKE what LWB posted to you a lot.
Let me add my 2 cents worth of knowledge and understanding to what has already been said.
When we look at life and this earth in terms of why it is difficult for me to say it was all just an accident of nature and there is no why. To me, it takes much more faith to say that elements just always existed and came together by accident or coincidence, to form planets, earth, atmosphere, water, and life, than it does to admit that just maybe an intelligence made it all. If I am going to invest faith into something, it is going to be something intelligent rather than something on accident.
Now, as to believing in God, Jesus, eternity. Since I need to invest faith and belief in something, rather than nothing by accident: God. If I created life, I would want to communicate with my creation, especially if I created that life in my image. Now comes the tricky part. There are several religions that say that their god is the god of creation. I must now look at what happens if everyone on the earth follows that god instead of mine. Mine is loving unconditionally, accepting of where I am in life, and ultimately forgiving to re-establish communication and fellowship with His creation. What other gods are in that category? None. I have studied many religions in my 59 years here. I was a teen in the '60s. WE experimented with EVERYTHING. I examined a lot of religions and atheism. In my own search for truth, I was led to God and then Jesus as the only options for truth in the grand scheme of everything. Not religion: FAITH. A personal relationship, which has been confirmed over and over again, by a living God and a living Savior and Lord, and a living Holy Spirit.
Once a person has truly met Christ Jesus and accepted Him as Lord and Savior and has experienced the Holy Spirit and the freedom in surrendering all to Him, one no longer has need of questioning God. He is.
There is no proof of Him that a non-believer will ever accept.
Once we believe, we need no proof, because He supplies all the proof we need.
Be blessed,
Lee52
I LIKE what LWB posted to you a lot.
Let me add my 2 cents worth of knowledge and understanding to what has already been said.
When we look at life and this earth in terms of why it is difficult for me to say it was all just an accident of nature and there is no why. To me, it takes much more faith to say that elements just always existed and came together by accident or coincidence, to form planets, earth, atmosphere, water, and life, than it does to admit that just maybe an intelligence made it all. If I am going to invest faith into something, it is going to be something intelligent rather than something on accident.
Now, as to believing in God, Jesus, eternity. Since I need to invest faith and belief in something, rather than nothing by accident: God. If I created life, I would want to communicate with my creation, especially if I created that life in my image. Now comes the tricky part. There are several religions that say that their god is the god of creation. I must now look at what happens if everyone on the earth follows that god instead of mine. Mine is loving unconditionally, accepting of where I am in life, and ultimately forgiving to re-establish communication and fellowship with His creation. What other gods are in that category? None. I have studied many religions in my 59 years here. I was a teen in the '60s. WE experimented with EVERYTHING. I examined a lot of religions and atheism. In my own search for truth, I was led to God and then Jesus as the only options for truth in the grand scheme of everything. Not religion: FAITH. A personal relationship, which has been confirmed over and over again, by a living God and a living Savior and Lord, and a living Holy Spirit.
Once a person has truly met Christ Jesus and accepted Him as Lord and Savior and has experienced the Holy Spirit and the freedom in surrendering all to Him, one no longer has need of questioning God. He is.
There is no proof of Him that a non-believer will ever accept.
Once we believe, we need no proof, because He supplies all the proof we need.
Be blessed,
Lee52
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Keep seeking. In seeking, you will find.
Yesterday Perry Stone's show talked about the difference between sheep and goats. (I missed a lot of it.) Goats tend to be more self-assured and willful, and don't hear instructions well. They go along their merry ways without listening to their owners. In contrast, sheep hear and take in instructions. They tune in to the voice of their shepherd/farmer.
The goats remind me of certain dogs who will remain unnamed -- you know who you are. They keep wandering when they're called to come inside, they sneak onto the couch when no one is looking... they like their masters, but really they like food better. They pretend a lot, and feign remorse when they hear a stern voice.
Happy dogs love going where their master goes, and they don't even care where it is. We have had dogs that will sit in a vehicle because they are afraid they will be left home.
Knowing God involves trying to be wherever He is -- finding Him, tuning your ears in to hear him when you're an acre away "in the woods." Begging to come along.
Yesterday Perry Stone's show talked about the difference between sheep and goats. (I missed a lot of it.) Goats tend to be more self-assured and willful, and don't hear instructions well. They go along their merry ways without listening to their owners. In contrast, sheep hear and take in instructions. They tune in to the voice of their shepherd/farmer.
The goats remind me of certain dogs who will remain unnamed -- you know who you are. They keep wandering when they're called to come inside, they sneak onto the couch when no one is looking... they like their masters, but really they like food better. They pretend a lot, and feign remorse when they hear a stern voice.
Happy dogs love going where their master goes, and they don't even care where it is. We have had dogs that will sit in a vehicle because they are afraid they will be left home.
Knowing God involves trying to be wherever He is -- finding Him, tuning your ears in to hear him when you're an acre away "in the woods." Begging to come along.
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Wow, thank you all so much. You all are wonderful people and have once again shown me the love of Christ. This is all the proof I need. This is all I needed. I believe God sent you all here to me today and told you all to give me your advice, and you all did. Thank you so much, I cannot thank you enough. I wish there was something I could do in return, so I will spread the joy and love of Christ Jesus. Thank you all again so much. May God bless you all today, tomorrow, forever, and always.
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Well it starts of with hearing a witness, and if we are of a disposition which is agreeable to that witness, we find it to be credible, or believable.
And then once we begin to believe we receive signs, or confirmations which affirm our belief.
And after some time of steadily believing and receiving these confirmations we come to a place where we possess experiential knowledge.
And that is "knowing that we know".
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. <-----> 1st John 2:3
May The Lord Be Pleased !
wm
And then once we begin to believe we receive signs, or confirmations which affirm our belief.
And after some time of steadily believing and receiving these confirmations we come to a place where we possess experiential knowledge.
And that is "knowing that we know".
And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments. <-----> 1st John 2:3
May The Lord Be Pleased !
wm
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Pastor Benny Hinn would not stop his miracle healing crusades around the world because he has seen the power of healing on the stage floor. People come on stage healed where minutes ago they were suffering the pain of disease. Jesus heals all diseases if we stay faith-focused on our spiritual partner who battles every second, 24 hours a day against the sinful deceptions of Satan. Athiests and Non-Christians of different religions would not exist if God had freeze-frozen time from the second Adam's mouth opened and his hand holding the apple close to his lips. If God knows our future then Satan's deceiving plan would have been stopped completely so that Adam and Eve would be alive today in perfect health and in perfect youth, along with many adult couples that God would have created from dust. Sex I believe would not exist, not even babies that become children later on, and we would experience an eternal spiritual pleasure that never loses it's excitement: something that our non-married Jesus knows that the holy spirit is like warmth of the sun that never grows cold for one second.:*:.
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Throughout all the centuries, there have been always true believers, who kept the Word of God in its originality, because they appreciated it, and also feared God.
God cares enough for his Word, to make sure that it is kept in its originality.
The moral law, the ten commandments, are coded on the heart of every man, his conscience. They must be created, from somebody who is moral.
In all of creation, we see expressed a thought, wisdom and purpose, which shows, that there is somebody who thinks God.
Jeremiah 1:12, Isaiah 55:10,11, Acts 5:38, 39, 1 Corinthians 15:5, 6, 30, 31, Matthew 5:18, 24:35, Romans 1:19, 20, 2:14, 15, Luke 1:1-4, 2:1-3, 16:17, 1 Peter 1:25, Revelation 22:18,19, Matthew 2:6, 4:24,25, 7:16-20, 9:26,35, 11:20-23, 12:33, 12:40-42, 19:4-6, Luke 6:43, 44, Ezra 1:4, Hebrews 2:3,4, Acts 2:22, 14:3, 16:26-30, Mark 16:17, 20, John 2:11,23, 3:2, 4:48, 6:2, 10:25, 38, 11:45, 14:11, 20:30,31, Luke 10:13, 11:30-32,51, 12:1, Deuteronomy 28:64, Ezekiel 36:24, Isaiah 7:14, 9:6-7, 53:1-12, John 7:38, 39, Romans 8:16, John 3:5-8, Romans 5:5, 9:15,17,25,27, 1 John 2:27, 3:9, 24, 4:13, 1 Corinthians 2:4,5, James 5:17,18, 2 Corinthians 12:12
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