How do we explain New Testament writers taking Old Testament prophecies out of context?

Norbert L

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To say that "and find the exact words of the NEW Testament in the LXX version of Amos", ignores the complete extent of the evidence we have and the different facts/variants we need to deal with about both the LXX and Acts. We don't have the original manuscripts and they're absolutely not "right there" as you claim. A person also cannot ignore the political situation in the Roman Empire as it affects the disciples living in Judea at that time as something that is silly. Their day to day life may seem silly to us, but I assure you it wasn't silly to them. The way the Caesar's of Rome enforced their rule of law makes President Trump look like Gandhi.
 
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Yekcidmij

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To say that "and find the exact words of the NEW Testament in the LXX version of Amos", ignores the complete extent of the evidence we have and the different facts/variants we need to deal with about both the LXX and Acts

What are the variants in this case?
 
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ViaCrucis

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In the Jewish tradition there is a concept of interpretation often abbreviated as PaRDeS, which stands for:

Peshat - "surface"
Remez - "hints"
Derash - "inquiry"
Sod - "secret"

And there there exists an entire category of material known as midrash that tends to focus on Remez and Derash, often through comparative reading looking which sees, below the plain surface reading of the text, further layers of meaning. The surface reading of Isaiah 7 is most likely talking about the birth of Hezekiah, but St. Matthew the Evangelist sees here messianic promise fulfilled in Jesus' virgin birth; while in Hebrew the word used here is עַלְמָה 'almah "maiden" or "young woman", however the translators of the LXX have translated this as παρθένος (parthenos) "virgin". Matthew sees here a messianic promise.

Debates on this subject go back very early, St. Justin in his Dialogue with Trypho specifically has this debate with Trypho (a Jew), c.f. Dialogue ch. 71 (link)

Fundamentally, are the New Testament writers simply taking these passages out of context as though they don't know how to read them properly, or are they privvy to a particular insight that is only possible when seen through the light of Christ? Because from the very beginning Christians have understood the death and resurrection of Jesus to be the evidence of Jesus' messianic claims, and have thus gone to re-examine the Scriptures with this in mind, with the interpretive hermeneutic that, as we see Jesus say, "You search the Scriptures because in them you believe you have eternal life, it is these which bear witness to Me."

In this sense early Christians seemed to be engaging in a type of midrash, a reading of the texts by which to peel back the layers and to behold Christ hidden beneath.

One, of course, might argue that this is a problem; after all Jewish exegetes are quick to point out that a straight exegesis of many of these texts does not necessarily permit the Christian interpretation; and arguments against Jesus' status as Messiah often end up being centered on whether or not Jesus fulfilled certain messianic prophecies (and there are major differences in what the Jews regard as messianic prophecy and what Christians often regard as messianic prophecies). To which I think that becomes the wrong focal point--what matters is whether Jesus rose from the dead or not. If Jesus did not rise from the dead, then all arguments are meaningless, and if Jesus did rise from the dead, then no argument is left. The truth of the Christian religion does not come down to Old Testament exegesis, but on whether Jesus of Nazareth rose from the dead or not. If He did not, then our religion is meaningless, and if He did, then we bear the truth of God on our lips.

-CryptoLutheran
 
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BryanJohnMaloney

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Okay, basically, things boil down to people hate the LXX beforehand, so they will make up any old crap to refuse to accept any explanation that boils down to "The Apostles used the LXX". Okay, it's a matter of hardcore dogma. I get it.
 
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hedrick

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Jewish interpretation of the OT was rather different than Protestant historical interpretation. Essentially the question is how you apply historical material to a modern context. Whatever approach you use is going to be some kind of analogy. Seeing similarities between the historical situation and the current situation. ViaCrucis talks about midrash. In other cases people speak of modern events and people as if they repeated the original ones. Jesus is portrayed as a second Adam, David, and a second Moses. John the Baptist is portrayed as Eljiah come again. That doesn't mean that people believed in reincarnation. But the Bible is seen as a pattern for how God works, which can have modern applications.

That's really how many of us use the Bible. We may not refer to modern people and events quite so directly in terms of the originals. But we put ourselves imaginatively into the original situation, and try to learn things about what God wants us to do.

This doesn't mean that the OT was originally about events in the 1st Cent or our time. I think we should translate passages according to the original OT context. But the NT reuse of those passages is perfectly legitimate, and is a precedent for some imaginative approaches to using the Bible today.
 
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Norbert L

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Okay, basically, things boil down to people hate the LXX beforehand, so they will make up any old crap to refuse to accept any explanation that boils down to "The Apostles used the LXX". Okay, it's a matter of hardcore dogma. I get it.
People don't hate the LXX, most people want a deeper understanding of what was going on. They want more than the easy answer of the Apostles used the LXX. It's about what we know and being aware of what we don't know. Being able to point to the written evidence we have in historical documents and seeing that the Apostles certainly weren't quoting Amos from any copy of the LXX we have. It presents us with a challenge and without dialogue and discussion it's certainly not going to prevent any wrong dogma.

In my view what helps a person understand more about what's going on in the scriptures would be becoming familiar with the textual and historical criticism done by men and women who believe in the resurrection. Because if it weren't for them the dogma of Atheists, Islam and numerous other schools of thought would have no opposition and make Christianity look like it's for the uneducated.
 
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Polar Bear Quest

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Thank you for the reply.
 
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Polar Bear Quest

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Thank you for the detailed response. Much appreciated.
 
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Polar Bear Quest

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Thank you for this excellent response.
 
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BryanJohnMaloney

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It looks like the Apostles WERE quoting the LXX. Look at the similarities. I'd say that a far better explanation is that Protestants worship the Masoretic text for some irrational reason.
 
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JackRT

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You might find that this sermon of mine below bears on the topic:

 
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