How do people who are "unconditionally loved" end up in hell?

Ron Gurley · Nov 11, 2017

Q: People don't really choose heaven or hell.

A: Yes they do.

BELIEVE=>heavenly realms
UNBELIEVE => "LAKE of FIRE"

see: CHOOSE!...in post 11 above

JIMINZ · Nov 11, 2017

There are those who espouse a belief which says, God is Sovereign and because He is Sovereign He can do anything He wants, anytime He wants, in any way He wants.

They then turn right around and say, they have figured out just how this Sovereign God of theirs works, and is unable to do things which they do not understand or agree with, because they are contradictory with how they understand a Sovereign God would act.

Rather than admitting, they have just not come to the point of comprehension of a reality, truth, which they don't understand.

Dr Bruce Atkinson · Nov 11, 2017

Johnny4ChristJesus said:
People don't really choose heaven or hell. They choose to believe or disbelief in the God of the Bible, and more specificially, His testimony about Jesus Christ (1 John 5:10) who is the only Way to the Father. If God unconditionally and individually loves all men, then how do "unconditionally loved" people end up in hell for all eternity?

(I am not a universalist and I believe what Jesus said about hell.)

We must balance the verses that indicate that God loves the human world so much that He sent His Son to die for its salvation, and that He wants no one to ultimately die .... with Romans 9, which indicates that God does NOT love everyone, and with the number of NT scriptures that speak of some humans as being children of the devil.

Waggles · Nov 11, 2017

Johnny4ChristJesus said:
If God unconditionally and individually loves all men, then how do "unconditionally loved" people end up in hell for all eternity?

Where in the scriptures does it say that Jesus loves us unconditionally?
I must of missed that verse.

GraceSeeker · Nov 11, 2017

Johnny4ChristJesus said:
If God unconditionally and individually loves all men, then how do "unconditionally loved" people end up in hell for all eternity?

I'll answer this question with a question, how could a loving God condemn people who have rejected him and his love to be forced to spend all of eternity in his presence?

JIMINZ · Nov 12, 2017

ToBeLoved said:
Sin must be atoned for.
THose who have Christ have that atonement.
We all have the free choice to choose it.

.
Then doesn't Free Choice (Free Will) mean, a person can choose Salvation before God Draws him?

Just how does this work, does the person choosing Salvation ask for the Free Gift of God's Grace?...It's all so confusing .

JIMINZ · Nov 12, 2017

ToBeLoved said:
Maybe mankind would never have fallen if not for the devil. So God has billions of His Children estranged from Him because of that.

.
If a person is born with a Sinful Nature, and does not become Born Again of the Spirit, thus making him a Child of God, who then are these billions of Estranged Children of God of which you speak?

JIMINZ · Nov 12, 2017

ToBeLoved said:
I will say that I don't hang on hell doctrine being fire. It could be or it could be just removeal from God and His love.

.
In actuality, Hell is separation.

G86
ᾅδης
hadēs
hah'-dace
Properly unseen, that is, “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls: - grave, hell.

Both Death and Hell will be cast into the Lake of fire, that is for all eternity, not Hell.

Rev. 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

Johnny4ChristJesus · Nov 12, 2017

Ron Gurley said:
Q: People don't really choose heaven or hell.

A: Yes they do.

BELIEVE=>heavenly realms
UNBELIEVE => "LAKE of FIRE"

see: CHOOSE!...in post 11 above

Ron, I understand what you are saying;but, it is easy to say that as a believer. An unbeliever doesn't believe in our God or our Bible and therefore is highly unlikely to believe in hell, as well. Shoot, there are some people who say they believe in our God and don't believe that the "unconditionally loving God" that had Jesus die for us would ever let anyone go to hell--even though Jesus told us, in the Scripture, that people would (example: the writer of "the shack"--young). I realize that doesn't make it any less true; but, I didn't when I was an unbeliever or when I called myself a Christian, but I really wasn't.

Ron Gurley · Nov 12, 2017

God knows the spirit of all Men. He knows whether you are a truly saved believer...or simply a mind-professed agree-er.

1 Chronicles 28:9
“As for you, my son Solomon, know the God of your father, and serve Him with a whole heart and a willing mind; for the Lord searches all hearts, and understands every intent of the thoughts. If you seek Him, He will let you find Him; but if you forsake Him, He will reject you forever.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul and spirit, of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.

Johnny4ChristJesus · Nov 12, 2017

JIMINZ said:
.
In actuality, Hell is separation.

G86
ᾅδης
hadēs
hah'-dace
Properly unseen, that is, “Hades” or the place (state) of departed souls: - grave, hell.

Both Death and Hell will be cast into the Lake of fire, that is for all eternity, not Hell.

Rev. 20:14
And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.

I agree with what you are saying JIMINZ, with one twist. The KJV translates three different Greek words to mean "hell." I believe death and hades/sheol (the place where people go when they die, the place Jesus has the key for) are cast into gehenna (the lake of fire, the second death, place of eternal punishment, the place we think of when we think of hell), because of how Jesus uses gehenna and fire together in Mar 9:43-48 and other places.

Peter added a different one, tartarus, and it is the only time it is ever used in the New Testament. Given how the Greeks used that word, it could be the referring to the bottomless pit where satan is kept until the final judgment. I'm not big on opinions about Scripture; but this article is packed with all the New Testament references to hades and gehenna and the one for tartarus. Maybe you will be interested in exploring for yourself:

The Use of "Hell" in the New Testament

Johnny4ChristJesus · Nov 12, 2017

GraceSeeker said:
I'll answer this question with a question, how could a loving God condemn people who have rejected him and his love to be forced to spend all of eternity in his presence?

I think you mean "force" not "condemn". Sorry, but it just doesn't sound right to even consider being "forced" to remain in His presence as condemning.

I would say most who have rejected Him haven't truly experienced Him. I find it almost unbelievable, if not entirely unbelievable, that any who truly experience Him would reject Him.

But, at the risk of offending because of the lower comparison to worldly things: A man makes a really big wrong choice. It earns him a life sentence without parole. That life sentence puts him in prison--permanently separated from the world he did wrong in and from the judge who would sentence him. He earned it. The judge has every legal right and even the responsiblity to "honor his choice" and put him away for life. But, does that prisoner really want to be separated from the world and judge he offended or did he just make bad decisions that landed him in the prison for life?

There is a difference from being told what will happen if we do something wrong and actually experiencing it. I am told not to touch a hot stove, but as soon as I touch it, and get burned, I don't touch it again.

So, the question you asked isn't the opposite.

Truth is, we all deserve HELL, so that any of us can choose to believe and have the Judge declare us innocent, despite our wrong doings, is too wonderful for words to truly express. While God presents the choice and warns of the consequences ahead of time, He is not loving those who choose to disbelieve His testimony and thus "call Him a liar". He is not loving those who "blaspheme the Holy Spirit" and cannot be forgiven in this age or the age to come. He is not loving those who get the "mark of the beast". He is not loving those He "turns over to a strong delusion so they might be damned" or those turned over to a "reprobate mind". He is not loving those who are "sons of perdition". My point is that God doesn't unconditionally love, and He doesn't have to, if He is God.

Why would God want those who rejected His testimony, His Son, and His Holy Spirit to be found in all eternity with Him, anyway? Why would believers who had to suffer at the hands of those who rejected God want to have to deal with the same issues that the earth deals with, because God didn't keep His Word and keep all those who practiced unrighteousness out of heaven?

Johnny4ChristJesus · Nov 12, 2017

Waggles said:
Where in the scriptures does it say that Jesus loves us unconditionally?
I must of missed that verse.

I agree with you, Waggles. Scripture doesn't say that.

My argument is that people trying to force that characteristic on God create other issues that wouldn't be created, if we just stick to the testimony of Scripture.

So, if one believes God loves everyone unconditionally, they are left to explain why a God who loves unconditionally would allow people to be eternally sentenced to a place of punishment and torment, without a chance to change their choice? In other words, the goal is not rehabilitation, it is eternal punishment and torment. Scripture is quite clear that is what happens. I don't think the two "unconditional love of all members of mankind" and "eternal torment of the unbeliever" go hand in hand. Pushing for the idea of "unconditional love" only sets people up to explain so much of Scripture from a defensive position. But, nobody can, because Scripture doesn't support it.

And, I am so thankful for what God has done to rescue those of us who have twice received His prevenient love in the form of grace to know that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who diligently seek Him. I am floored when I think of how great God's love is; but, it isn't unconditional. And, it doesn't have to be.

Ronald · Nov 12, 2017

Johnny4ChristJesus said:
People don't really choose heaven or hell. They choose to believe or disbelief in the God of the Bible, and more specificially, His testimony about Jesus Christ (1 John 5:10) who is the only Way to the Father. If God unconditionally and individually loves all men, then how do "unconditionally loved" people end up in hell for all eternity?

(I am not a universalist and I believe what Jesus said about hell.)

Unconditional love on His end has nothing to do with their being believers or not. He knows already the reprobates who will reject His gift of eternal life are destined to destruction. Jesus knew Judas would betray him all along, yet demonstrated love to him. It was Judas choice. But remember God "loved Isaac but hated Esau". He hated the Nicolaitans (Rev. 2:6). He hated the world that He destroyed in the flood. So, He doesn't give out unconditional love at all times to all people. He ordered the Israelites to war against and kill those tribes who occupied the Promise Land - that's not unconditional love, He hated them.
In Romans 1 it is very clear that God loves us up to a point in time when He lets some go to their own demise and wickedness. This is the point of time when judgment takes place in the persons life. They are cut off literally even before they die. That's what a reprobate is and so God in His historical plan for man, has used good and restrained evil for a purpose. We learn what His good and holy attributes are only because we see and know evil. We don't see the whole picture like He does and so don't fully understand. A starving infant dies in a village -- How do know this infant isn't taken to the Lord and relieved of his miserable life? You don't, so you think He doesn't love them. Christians die suddenly and we wonder where is God? Well, they go to the Lord and are jumping with joy that He took them out.
It is clear that a judgment of destruction in the Lake of Fire is not love at all. No, of course not, it is justice. Sin needs to be judged. But also He hates sin and after a certain point in time, He cuts them off from His love.

Waggles · Nov 12, 2017

Johnny4ChristJesus said:
I agree with you, Waggles. Scripture doesn't say that.
My argument is that people trying to force that characteristic on God create other issues that wouldn't be created, if we just stick to the testimony of Scripture.

If ye love me, keep my commandments.
John 14:15
He that hath my commandments, and keeps them, he it is that loves me:
and he that loves me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him,
and will manifest myself to him.
John 14:21
By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God,
and keep his commandments.
For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments:
and his commandments are not grievous.
1 John 5:2-3
But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
James 1:22

Johnny4ChristJesus · Nov 12, 2017

JIMINZ said:
.
Then doesn't Free Choice (Free Will) mean, a person can choose Salvation before God Draws him?

Just how does this work, does the person choosing Salvation ask for the Free Gift of God's Grace?...It's all so confusing .

What an insightful question!!!!! Personally, I think we are in agreement. I guess this is what I would call God's prevenient love--His loving us first--on both a collective level (mankind) and then also on an individual level. Without His prevenient love, we'd all be toast! I thank God that "we love Him, because He first loved us." (1 John 4:19)

Johnny4ChristJesus · Nov 12, 2017

JIMINZ said:
There are those who espouse a belief which says, God is Sovereign and because He is Sovereign He can do anything He wants, anytime He wants, in any way He wants.

They then turn right around and say, they have figured out just how this Sovereign God of theirs works, and is unable to do things which they do not understand or agree with, because they are contradictory with how they understand a Sovereign God would act.

Rather than admitting, they have just not come to the point of comprehension of a reality, truth, which they don't understand.

I agree with that first paragraph. That's actually a pretty good definition of sovereign, JIMINZ. And "can do" doesn't mean "will do" for me. As Sovereign, God can do stuff that He, by His own Word would never do--like lie. As Sovereign, if He did lie, nobody could hold Him accountable. If they could, He wouldn't be Sovereign. He holds Himself accountable to His Word. And, we can all thank God that He does!

God didn't have to call satan's attention to Job; but, He did. He didn't have to allow satan to do what he was allowed to do to Job; nor did He have to give satan limits; but He did. I am quite certain that God wasn't surprised when satan got to Eve and then got Adam to disobey God. I would even argue that He allowed that, since Jesus was the "Lamb slain before the foundations of the world." God didn't have to allow the Apostle James to die nor did He have to rescue Peter. Then there is Saul's conversion and the discussion with Ananias in Acts 9 when Ananias is telling Jesus the problem with using Saul. Even how Jesus re-assured Paul that he was going to testify in Rome.

Then there are the two witnesses of Rev 11. Isn't it fascinating that it isn't until "after they have finished their testimony," that they are allowed to be overcome?

I am soooooooo AMAZED by God!

Matthew13:9 · Nov 13, 2017

Johnny4ChristJesus said:
People don't really choose heaven or hell. They choose to believe or disbelief in the God of the Bible, and more specificially, His testimony about Jesus Christ (1 John 5:10) who is the only Way to the Father. If God unconditionally and individually loves all men, then how do "unconditionally loved" people end up in hell for all eternity?

(I am not a universalist and I believe what Jesus said about hell.)

Choice is a lie: It is God that chooses and it is God that is in control of everything. You either have the holy Ghost and have eternal life or you are dead: and will be forgotten.

Doug Melven · Nov 13, 2017

There is no verse that says, "He loves unconditionally".
But I believe actions speak louder than words.
If you look through the OT you will see His unconditional love for Israel. They did nothing to deserve His love.
Then God gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him they might have life.
None of us did anything to deserve that love.
A love that says I will let into Heaven those who reject God is not true love but is enablement.
God hates sin and it must be punished which is why He took His wrath out on Jesus Christ.

Johnny4ChristJesus · Nov 13, 2017

Doug Melven said:
There is no verse that says, "He loves unconditionally".
But I believe actions speak louder than words.
If you look through the OT you will see His unconditional love for Israel. They did nothing to deserve His love.
Then God gave His only begotten Son that whosoever believes in Him they might have life.
None of us did anything to deserve that love.
A love that says I will let into Heaven those who reject God is not true love but is enablement.
God hates sin and it must be punished which is why He took His wrath out on Jesus Christ.

Doug, I agree actions speak louder than words. I believe God does, so does God, based on Scripture. I also agree that none of us did or could ever do anything to earn what God did for us.

I disagree with the idea that the OT demonstrates unconditional love. It demonstrates God's integrity (faithfulness to His Word) in fulfilling promises He made to Abraham, and then Jacob (renamed Israel) and David. Israel is a nation. Many were killed within that nation; but the nation was preserved.

How do people who are "unconditionally loved" end up in hell?

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