How do most Catholics feel about the Novus Ordo?

[88Devin07]

I just got back from attending my first (though probably also last) mass with my brother and his fiance. I had never attended one before, and thought I should go to one at least once so I would have had some (though limited) experience with Catholic worship.

It was in the new order of the mass after Vatican II. What I saw (being Orthodox) brought both some comforting elements, but also had some quite shocking elements.

What I want to ask now, without any intended malice or intent to argue/debate, is... How do most Catholics feel about the new order of mass?

(again, not asking this out of any malice or underlying intention to troll, I'm genuinely curious)

 

[Ave Maria]

I am a Roman Catholic and I am fine with the Novus Ordo Mass as long as it is done in a very reverent manner. I also prefer it to be a traditional leaning Novus Ordo Mass.

 

[isshinwhat]

It is all most know... It is all I knew until I moved to a location where a Tridentine Mass was said. I believe in slimming the Mass down we lost some of the inherent beauty and sense of transcendence. A well-celebrated Novus Ordo is beautiful, but it seems to have a different ethos to me. I do appreciate the available use of the vernacular, though.

 

[Irenaeus]

I think the Novus Ordo, reverently celebrated in Latin, is a beautiful liturgy. The current ICEL translation in English has a lot to be desired but that will be remedied this Advent.

 

[Vasallus]

I like it.

 

[isshinwhat]

Out of curiosity, what shocked you?

 

[88Devin07]

Out of curiosity, what shocked you?

I'll only list those things that I assume are associated with the Novus Ordo, as other things I was a little shocked by just have to do with EO-RCC differences. (and of course, as we know, those discussions tend to go downhill on CF)

The first thing that shocked me, was that the first hymn was actually a Protestant "praise" hymn, "Come, now is the time to worship".

I was also shocked that is was not the Priest that led most of the service, but rather this young girl (presumably a "worship leader"). The Priest(s) said the few prayers, read the gospel, said the sermon, and celebrated the sacrament, and that was it). The young girl did most of the singing, and most of the hymns seemed to be Protestant in origin.

I was also really shocked to see female altar-servers, as well as laypeople administering the cup to other laypeople. (whereas the Priest would serve the wafers to the faithful)

I also observed that it was not just the Priests that consumed the rest of the communion afterwards, but their helpers as well.

I had also been shocked at the plain nature of the vestments, but I had seen this in various photos, so I shouldn't have been that shocked.

Those were the things that surprised me about the Novus Ordo service I went to.

 

[Irenaeus]

Welcome to OBOB, Devin!

I understand your shock about several things in the Roman Liturgy but here is one that I can assuage:

I also observed that it was not just the Priests that consumed the rest of the communion afterwards, but their helpers as well.

This practice has been banned. This only to be done by clergy or instituted acolytes (which practically is usually a Seminarian on his way to Orders). It is taking a long time to die out, however.

It is technically permitted that the minister of the chalice may consume the contents if there is much left over. However the purification of the vessels is reserved to the aforementioned persons.

 

[eastcoast_bsc]

I'll only list those things that I assume are associated with the Novus Ordo, as other things I was a little shocked by just have to do with EO-RCC differences. (and of course, as we know, those discussions tend to go downhill on CF)

The first thing that shocked me, was that the first hymn was actually a Protestant "praise" hymn, "Come, now is the time to worship".

I was also shocked that is was not the Priest that led most of the service, but rather this young girl (presumably a "worship leader"). The Priest(s) said the few prayers, read the gospel, said the sermon, and celebrated the sacrament, and that was it). The young girl did most of the singing, and most of the hymns seemed to be Protestant in origin.

I was also really shocked to see female altar-servers, as well as laypeople administering the cup to other laypeople. (whereas the Priest would serve the wafers to the faithful)

I also observed that it was not just the Priests that consumed the rest of the communion afterwards, but their helpers as well.

I had also been shocked at the plain nature of the vestments, but I had seen this in various photos, so I shouldn't have been that shocked.

Those were the things that surprised me about the Novus Ordo service I went to.

I never grew up with the Novus Ordo. I have no issues in general, but a lot of what you experienced is even beyond the Novus Ordo, i.e. The Priest having less to do and female altar servers. It seems that a lot of Priests have become lazy and the delegation of duties has gotten out of hand.

 

[Starlightsobright]

I have only been to Novus Ordo Mass as we only have the Pre Vatican Mass celebrated in 2 places in our city. I can imagine all that has been lost just by looking at old Holy Pictures of the priest on the altar that I have seen.

 

[CruciFixed]

I have seen some of what you say. The one priest at the local parish does very little. He says the homily and reads the gospel but a lay woman reads all the other parts of the mass and the psalms.

Also lay people women or men serve the wine/blood of christ.

 

[CruciFixed]

I am not a huge fan. I came from Protestantism and in most circumstances going to the Mass makes me feel like any other protestant church. Not what I expected but eh whatever.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I'm one of the Catholics here who attends the Tridentine Latin Mass whenever I am able to. It takes longer for me to travel there than to my regular parish, but I find it helpful spiritually. Other than that, there's also the Eastern Catholic Divine Liturgy (which is just like the Orthodox ).

In the Latin Mass, there are no 'extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion', no women serving at the altar (whether as altar girls or lectors etc), the priest pretty much does everything with the help of maybe a deacon and altar boys. The priest faces the altar. People receive Communion kneeling at the altar rail. Many women cover their heads. The music is Gregorian Chant, in Latin, if there are hymns they are traditional Catholic hymns.

Not everyone would agree with me in preferring this Mass, but this type of Mass is the one that helps me the most spiritually. It communicates the truths of the faith well. Plus there are often very good knowledgeable priests, Confession before every Mass, Eucharistic Adoration and other devotions in the parish, etc. There is good catechesis and reverence in such parishes as well.

I know my post can come across as being very critical of the Novus Ordo and the typical parish... I do believe the Church is going through a difficult time right now due to poor catechesis and the after-effects of the 60s and 70s, where many traditions were thrown out through a misunderstanding of VII. Hopefully in time things would improve. If you see a Mass in the Vatican on tv, it is Novus Ordo but it's more reverent. I'm not against a Novus Ordo done well... though I prefer the Latin Mass for various reasons.

Just my opinion here's a video of a Latin Mass if you are wondering what it is like:

Tridentine Latin Mass: Last Sunday after Pentecost (5/8) - YouTube

 

[Gwendolyn]

Well, if we're being honest...

I believe in slimming the Mass down we lost some of the inherent beauty and sense of transcendence.

I believe the same, except I would say "we lost most" of the inherent beauty and transcendence.

Devin, I am continuously bothered by the things that you listed as being shocking to you.

There are people who like to say that the Novus Ordo is closer to the most ancient Masses, simple because Rome's liturgies have always been simple, etc. All it takes is some research in liturgical history to know that such things are not true. They sound comforting, but they are not true.

The Novus Ordo is the bare-bones form of a liturgy. Whereas the Council of Trent universalised a very full, highly ritualised liturgy, the Mass that followed in the wake of Vatican II was stripped bare as a reaction to the Tridentine Mass, which many felt contained "too much" ritualism with repetitive prayers, etc. The pendulum swings both ways.

The music is usually recycled protestant hymns or 1970s-1990s folk hymns. It is often popular to use protestant pop music as hymns, like the one you witnessed. People feel it makes Mass more "modern". Altar girls are common, and in some areas they outnumber the boys. Laypeople usually always give out communion, unless the group at Mass is very small, or unless you are at an ordination full of clergy. And yes, the vestments are usually always simplistic or plain. In fact, if the priests I know dared wear more traditional (read: high Roman) vestments, they would get complaints from people about being too formal and medieval. In that same vein, people also complain if incense is used because it "takes up time" and appears too formal/medieval.

That is how it is in my diocese, anyway - and I hear those complaints all the time.

My diocese is having issues.

 

[MoNiCa4316]

I recently read a very interesting reversion story in which the person said that she almost left the Church because of all the liberalisation... she said that people often say, "we need to make the liturgy more modern because otherwise it's not relevant, etc" - but in doing this, they make it less spiritually significant and people receive less graces and end up leaving. The solution is to make it more traditional, more reverent, not less. Then more would realize that Jesus is really present on the altar, and would repent of sin, and turn to Him. They would realize that Mary, and the Saints, are real and the Communion of Saints is real. That we need to worship God and that faith is not just about feelings. Here is the article if anyone is interested. Sometimes I get discouraged by all this, but then I think, the devil must be attacking the Church so much because it has truth and he wants it destroyed. But we do need to pray for the Church. I'm not here in this thread to debate anyone, if you disagree then you disagree. But I wanted to share what has been on my heart for a long time. God bless

the article: Little Catholic Bubble: My Reversion Story

 

[AMDG]

I'm old enough to remember the Tridentine Mass. And I loved it. I would choose to go to the Missa Cantata that was held. Glorious. Very, very reverent. The suddenness of the Novos Ordo was a shock and a disappointment. Especially all the abuses that sort of crept in and the banning of the Tridentine Mass by many Bishops in an attempt to make everyone forget about it. Didn't work all together. Some still remembered and loved it. (Some actually loved it so much that they chose to be disobedient and left the Church.) Some chose to go to the very reverent Divine Liturgy instead. Most didn't leave but were sad that they no longer had what fed the Saints and one famous man said that it was actually painful going to Mass and as his dying wish was granted participation in the Tridentine Mass. Most younger people don't remember it at all, but simply parrot "talking points" about how it wasn't any good. Over the years, the Pope has tried to ban the various abuses, then finally he issued a Moto Proprio that allowed celebration of the Tridentine Mass as the Extraordinary form of the Mass on special occassions. Some lucky people, mostly younger members, are able to go to an FSSP Tridentine Mass, but mostly we are relegated to what is available in our various parishes.

The new changes in the Novos Ordo (starting in Advent) is hopeful. It just may make the Novos Ordo more reverent and possibly be what Vatican II was originally hoping for.

 

[MikeK]

I love any Mass where the Eucharist is made available to me, everything else is just details. That said, I prefer the TLM over the NO. I am thankful that both are available to us and that we are free to choose the Mass that we prefer.

 

[Fantine]

Well, for starters, it will have been around for 50 years in 2013 or so...

In the real world, when things are 50 years old, they're "antiques." There isn't anything "novus" about a Mass that is the only Mass most people have ever experienced (I was in elementary school during Vatican II.)

I have never even heard the words "novus ordo" except on message boards such as this...and there always seems to be sort of a supercilious, snide connotation to the term, as if to imply that there's something illegitimate about it.

I like "Come, Now is the Time to Worship" quite a bit, and have heard it at youth Masses, but have never heard it sung at any other Masses. My favorite entrance hymn is Marty Haugen's "All Are Welcome." I love the Celtic melody, but I love the lyrics even more, because they describe what we all want a Church to be, and what we should all be striving to be, individually and collectively, when we come together to worship.

We can't be reminded of those things too many times (because we obviously haven't 'got it' yet.)

Yes, we have cantors. They are volunteers, not paid professionals. If you are dissatisfied with their vocal skills, volunteer yourself or recruit a better singer.

As for me, I am comfortable with a wide range of expression in our Masses. We are a diverse Church, 1.6 billion people strong, and I understand that every congregation will have a unique flavor while still preserving the essentials of the Mass. I really dislike it when people try to put Catholicism in a straitjacket.

 

[AMDG]

Yes, we have cantors. They are volunteers, not paid professionals.

Wrong. In my parish, the cantor was paid. (Don't think she was even Catholic.) The songs are still not Catholic hymns, or the Vatican II wanted Gregorian Chant. Nor is the organ used, another thing the Vatican said that it wanted. But at least from her there was an occassional Latin Hymn (even if it was in the background during the Lamb of God), our present one "Doesn't do Latin".

Not so with the Missa Cantata that I used to be able to attend. (And that was a whole choir.)

Guess it's part of that "diverse Church" thing.

 

[TheCunctator]

The new changes in the Novos Ordo (starting in Advent) is hopeful. It just may make the Novos Ordo more reverent and possibly be what Vatican II was originally hoping for.

I've had the pleasure to attend both and was in jaw-dropping awe of the Tridentine Mass. What kind of changes are they making to the Novus Ordo?