Maid Marie
Zechariah 4:6
Oohh, ok. Nazarenes do sprinkling, pouring or immersion so the joke was lost on me.
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I think it is because Baptists typically baptize in pools whereas Methodist typically sprinkle, though I've seen about every variation possible in my own church.
And now that you get it, I'll bet it wasn't worth explaining.Oohh, ok. Nazarenes do sprinkling, pouring or immersion so the joke was lost on me.
And now that you get it, I'll bet it wasn't worth explaining.
I have a DS friend who says that Methodists are like tofu, we take on the flavor of the groups around us.
So up here in the great white north where we are surrounded by Roman Catholics and Lutherans you seldom hear of anyone being immersed. Sprinkling is the mode du jour.
I can see that a bit although, the UMC where I used to live in central PA were surrounded by Roman Catholics and ELCA but their style of worship was not as formal as theirs. I never found out from them though how they baptized
I do hear of Methodists doing a lot more immersion in the south of the US than I ever hear about here.
How liturgical (as in high church) are Methodists? Does it differ from denom. To denom?
I'm wondering if there are any liturgical churches that don't hold to salvific baptism.
Worship style varies greatly among Methodists. The United Methodist Church has official worship resources but pastors and local churches have a great deal of flexibility in using them.
I'm not sure what you mean by "salvific baptism" ?
I meant a church that teaches baptism leads to salvation- its my understanding Methodists don't?
Are Methodists Calvinists (I've heard they are similar to Presbyterians)? Or does it differ from person to person?
We do not believe that baptism leads to salvation.
Methodists are Arminian, which is the opposite of Calvinists and Presbyterians.
I'd word it a little differently. We do not believe that baptism in and of itself saves you. But United Methodists do believe that baptism is an act of God's love in our lives and God's grace working in our lives which encourages us towards faith in Christ, that faith being necessary for salvation.
If he had worded the question differently, I'd have answered with different words too. But since he used the term "salvific baptism", which down here in the bible belt means "regeneration through baptism" (i.e. you are "born again" when and only when you come up out of the water), I wanted to make sure that there was no question that we do not believe in regeneration through baptism. That can be a person's moment of justification, but it doesn't have to be nor is it required.
Also Baptists tend to believe that God's work is done and even complete at their justification where we teach that God continues to work in our lives to sanctify us and make us holy. It is why I see United Methodist soteriology as much more complete than most Baptist soteriology that only focuses on the moment of justification.
Wesley saw justification (or getting saved) as only the front door of the house of the Christian life. Sanctification is the rest of the house.
I agree. The idea of being completely degenerate until baptism, and then living under "once saved, always saved" and "you are perfected only after death" has seemed very empty to me. I guess that's why I'm not a Baptist in a very Baptist town.
Yes, exactly! And it is one of the reasons I'm no longer a Baptist though I spent a lot of my life in that denomination. It never seemed like a whole or complete way of looking at faith. I think the "once saved always saved" theology can slow or stunt spiritual growth because it can tempt you to act as if you can't grow and don't need to grow in faith.
A few posts ago, you pointed out that Wesley saw justification as the door to the house of Christian life. I know far too many Baptists who think of salvation as an airlock. They get in through baptism and saying a prayer, and that protects them from the harmful atmosphere outside. But, the airlock is a very tiny room and you stand in there until death, when the door on the other side opens to admit them to heaven. Unfortunately, I know far too many Methodists who think the same thing.
And of course, if you accidently use the word "work" or "effort" when talking about sanctification, they jump on that and shout "HA! I knew you guys believed in works-based salvation!"
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