How do I know when it's time to switch churches?

[grandvizier1006]

I'm in a bit of a pickle in terms of choosing between two churches and need some advice on when I should feel sure about leaving or staying at my current church.

My current church is a small, store-front church. It's LOUD, and every song is set up like a rock concert, with amps and whatnot. I have to sit in the back, wear earplugs, and cover my ears just to be able to handle all of that noise. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the members become deaf later on. I should say that we're almost entirely young people (20s), so perhaps they just don't care about their hearing.

The reason why I tolerate these extremely loud services is because the people here are extremely kind. They're not pretentious, stuffy, obsessed with their own local culture, and they're here because they genuinely love God--or at least they put on a convincing show of it. For what it's worth, this is a Nazarene church, not that that is every emphasized often. Essentially anyone is welcome to join, but it's not really "for" anyone that's not a young person who both "loves" Jesus and is into loud expressions of happiness.

This church emphasizes gathering together and hanging out (and as you can imagine cared very little for mask mandates or covid regulations). Somehow we avoided a large amount of covid cases, and I mainly stayed home (and regretted it because it ended up messing me up psychologically despite my concerns to stay healthy). The church more or less grew without me, and it won't be long, I think, before we outgrow our space. Or at least we would, except this church's plan is to make a bunch of other churches of similar size.

I'm not really that kind of person. For one thing, the church goes entirely against the type of churches I was raised in. I was raised in big, stuffy, quiet Presbyterian churches. Calvinism may have a lot of aspects I either don't agree with or an attitude I don't like, but I much prefer their more quiet, somber reflections on God than the loud happiness of my current church. At Presbyterian churches, there's no big round of applause for God (which I'm starting to get tired of). I never had a pastor before who insisted on saying "turn to your neighbor and say X" that my current pastor does. Somehow he's not even married, which is kind of an unofficial requirement in some Protestant circles. We don't discuss doctrine in sermons, instead he just applies it to daily life and occasionally makes jokes or funny anecdotes. I guess a part of me is tired of funny anecdotes and wants serious discussion. Recently we did a whole sermon on demons and spiritual warfare, and while I found myself curious because Presbyterians don't really talk about demons or anything like that much at all (in my experience, at least), once the sermons on spiritual warfare was over I found that everybody else had kind of moved on after I took a few weeks off from church due to my new job being too exhausting. Now I'm just finding myself "Behind" everybody else.

I'm told that there is in fact a serious discussion "club" of sorts that means weekly outside of the regular Sunday services, but it's hardly ever promoted and I was under the impression I had to be invited, more or less. Instead the weekly fellowship meetings we do are full of questions and round-table discussions on what is really little more than opinions being shared. I guess I'm tired of those kinds of questions and prefer having either very frank, somber discussions about our issues, or really learning something intellectual. I was able to get a bit of the first one from my current church, but I had to quit going once covid started ramping up. For whatever reason whoever is in charge of deciding when these different types of groups with confusing names (sorry if anyone reading gets confused, there are basically three different types of small groups and I'm only in 1 type that I don't like), also has some very arbitrary times of when they start and end. These groups last for months, then suddenly they're "over" and we don't do them again for the next few months, then they start back up again, all completely changed with new hosts and locations. It's hard to keep track of everything. My current church basically moves too fast for me.

And on the other hand, my grandparents have found a very nice church that seems to fit them very well. From what they've told me (and I sadly had to tell them that they would not like my current church, due to the noise) it has a variety of ages present, and very smart, intellectual focused staff, which is what I'd expect from a Presbyterian church. From what I understand, there are classes anyone can join, not separated by age (at least for the adults, as far as I know). It sounds like a much more calm and rational place where I don't have to cover my ears all the time and don't have to be overly happy. And to be honest, I have a hard time loving God and am so used to just fearing Him, in both a reverent sense and an actually afraid sense. Maybe it's my Presbyterian upbringing, I don't know. But I don't know if my current Nazarene church can help me really love God because I'm not an overly hyper person unless I'm with friends and people I can trust.

So what are some signs to look out for (Biblical or normal instinct are both fine) to know which sort of church God wants me in? I feel like all of my issues with my current church don't justify leaving. And I don't want to hurt the feelings of all of the kind people, some of whom I'd call friends, that I've made at my current church. I don't want to cut them out of my life forever.

 

[tturt]

Think we should attend where God wants us to attend. So would asks Him.

 

[grandvizier1006]

Think we should attend where God wants us to attend. So would asks Him.

Good idea, but I'm not sure how to pick up what God is telling me often. Any suggestions on how to do that after I pray about it?

 

[The Narrow Way]

I'm in a bit of a pickle in terms of choosing between two churches and need some advice on when I should feel sure about leaving or staying at my current church.

My current church is a small, store-front church. It's LOUD, and every song is set up like a rock concert, with amps and whatnot. I have to sit in the back, wear earplugs, and cover my ears just to be able to handle all of that noise. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the members become deaf later on. I should say that we're almost entirely young people (20s), so perhaps they just don't care about their hearing.

The reason why I tolerate these extremely loud services is because the people here are extremely kind. They're not pretentious, stuffy, obsessed with their own local culture, and they're here because they genuinely love God--or at least they put on a convincing show of it. For what it's worth, this is a Nazarene church, not that that is every emphasized often. Essentially anyone is welcome to join, but it's not really "for" anyone that's not a young person who both "loves" Jesus and is into loud expressions of happiness.

This church emphasizes gathering together and hanging out (and as you can imagine cared very little for mask mandates or covid regulations). Somehow we avoided a large amount of covid cases, and I mainly stayed home (and regretted it because it ended up messing me up psychologically despite my concerns to stay healthy). The church more or less grew without me, and it won't be long, I think, before we outgrow our space. Or at least we would, except this church's plan is to make a bunch of other churches of similar size.

I'm not really that kind of person. For one thing, the church goes entirely against the type of churches I was raised in. I was raised in big, stuffy, quiet Presbyterian churches. Calvinism may have a lot of aspects I either don't agree with or an attitude I don't like, but I much prefer their more quiet, somber reflections on God than the loud happiness of my current church. At Presbyterian churches, there's no big round of applause for God (which I'm starting to get tired of). I never had a pastor before who insisted on saying "turn to your neighbor and say X" that my current pastor does. Somehow he's not even married, which is kind of an unofficial requirement in some Protestant circles. We don't discuss doctrine in sermons, instead he just applies it to daily life and occasionally makes jokes or funny anecdotes. I guess a part of me is tired of funny anecdotes and wants serious discussion. Recently we did a whole sermon on demons and spiritual warfare, and while I found myself curious because Presbyterians don't really talk about demons or anything like that much at all (in my experience, at least), once the sermons on spiritual warfare was over I found that everybody else had kind of moved on after I took a few weeks off from church due to my new job being too exhausting. Now I'm just finding myself "Behind" everybody else.

I'm told that there is in fact a serious discussion "club" of sorts that means weekly outside of the regular Sunday services, but it's hardly ever promoted and I was under the impression I had to be invited, more or less. Instead the weekly fellowship meetings we do are full of questions and round-table discussions on what is really little more than opinions being shared. I guess I'm tired of those kinds of questions and prefer having either very frank, somber discussions about our issues, or really learning something intellectual. I was able to get a bit of the first one from my current church, but I had to quit going once covid started ramping up. For whatever reason whoever is in charge of deciding when these different types of groups with confusing names (sorry if anyone reading gets confused, there are basically three different types of small groups and I'm only in 1 type that I don't like), also has some very arbitrary times of when they start and end. These groups last for months, then suddenly they're "over" and we don't do them again for the next few months, then they start back up again, all completely changed with new hosts and locations. It's hard to keep track of everything. My current church basically moves too fast for me.

And on the other hand, my grandparents have found a very nice church that seems to fit them very well. From what they've told me (and I sadly had to tell them that they would not like my current church, due to the noise) it has a variety of ages present, and very smart, intellectual focused staff, which is what I'd expect from a Presbyterian church. From what I understand, there are classes anyone can join, not separated by age (at least for the adults, as far as I know). It sounds like a much more calm and rational place where I don't have to cover my ears all the time and don't have to be overly happy. And to be honest, I have a hard time loving God and am so used to just fearing Him, in both a reverent sense and an actually afraid sense. Maybe it's my Presbyterian upbringing, I don't know. But I don't know if my current Nazarene church can help me really love God because I'm not an overly hyper person unless I'm with friends and people I can trust.

So what are some signs to look out for (Biblical or normal instinct are both fine) to know which sort of church God wants me in? I feel like all of my issues with my current church don't justify leaving. And I don't want to hurt the feelings of all of the kind people, some of whom I'd call friends, that I've made at my current church. I don't want to cut them out of my life forever.

Perhaps if you ask yourself a couple questions, maybe it will help you with the answer

What do you think...can you see Jesus sitting in the loud noisy church service? I really cannot...it upset Him when the Priests were selling the animals just outside the Sanctuary, all the noise and hustle and bustle...not a very peaceful, spiritual atmosphere, which is what He intended Church to be.

And I agree with you, you need to find a church that is feeding you spiritually, where you believe you are growing and learning, not just one that makes you "feel good".

 

[Freth]

I think only you can make the decision as to what church is right for you. First, I'll give you my criteria for a good church. Keep in mind, these are my own convictions. Yours may vary.

• The church should teach from scripture. Every aspect of what the church teaches should be able to be verified by yourself in the Bible.
• The pastor should be teaching directly from scripture and going in-depth, not just floating above the surface with some abstract sermon that has no real Biblical lesson.
• The Bible studies should be teaching directly from scripture and going in-depth.
• The atmosphere should be one of reverence and respect. This, too often, is lacking in churches.
• Good music doesn't require guitars, drums, loud speakers, fancy lights or fog. Hymns that are sung to piano and/or organ are uplifting and joyous while maintaining reverence, which is important.
• The church should be active in the community. Local outreach should be a regular thing.
• The church should have an active and engaged congregation, along with an engaged pastor. Church activities are a must.
• The pastor and deacons should be approachable and knowledgeable in scripture. Otherwise, what's the point?
• The church should share your beliefs, or at least most of them.

Lastly, advice on your particular situation:

If you are unhappy with your current church (it sounds like you are), there are plenty of churches out there. I would definitely start with the second one you mentioned. If that church doesn't suit you better, don't give up. Look for more churches and show up for services. I have no doubt you will find a church that suits you perfectly. I definitely wouldn't remain in the current church, given what you've described.

God bless and Happy Sabbath!

 

[PloverWing]

I've had times in my life when I attended more than one church -- alternating weeks, or attending an early service at one church and a late service at another, etc. One of these times was in my 20s, when I was trying to decide whether to stay with the denomination I was raised in or move elsewhere. Another was when we moved to a new state and I was trying to pick a new church home.

Would something like that work for you, while you're trying to discern what kind of place is the most spiritually nurturing home for you?

 

[GirdYourLoins]

I've just left a church for the first time after 23 years. In that time we have had several pastors and I moved as part of a church plant under the parent church. I stopped feelinig like I "belonged" in the church and stopped growing spiritually there a few years ago, but as it was the only church I had ever known I stayed. A few things with the pastor both personally on a one to one and as part of his preaching left me feeling alienated from him and the church, but still I didnt leave. Eventually it got so bad that I made excuses and stopped going a bit before covid. Now we as a family have decided we wont be going back and told the leadership team.

The point being, I left it too late. It has affected me spiritually and I now feel as far away from God as I ever have since becomeing a Christian, to the point I'm not sure I'm really bothered about finding a new church. I would say if you no longer feel comfortable in the church and are no longer growing spiritually in the church it is probably time to start looking and visiting other churches. If you find one you feel called to join you know what to do.

 

[hedrick]

I’m a member of a PCUSA church. I’ve never seen a church that didn’t ask you to greet those around you. They also have fellowship time after the service. Still, it’s not always easy to get involved unless you’re willing to take at least some initiative to talk to people. For some personality types that’s hard. If you just show up for worship service in a larger church, you may not get to know anyone. Really, that service is like the visible part of an iceberg. You’d want to join an adult Sunday School class or be part of a service project. Or serve on a committee. That’s where much of the action happens.

But I still think we have a gap. We have a weekly fellowship for high school students that really builds a community, but when you graduate there isn’t as much. We’ve tried to use new member classes to help. At least you get to know a few other new members, the pastor and a couple of others. They ask what you’re interested in doing, and the nomination committee feeds that to commission chairs.

 

[hedrick]

I checked your area. The two presbyterian churches are PCA. They are more Calvinist than most Presbyterin churches. The equivalent of the churches I know would be the Methodists. But the culture of a church isn’t determined by its denomination. When you’re checking churches I wouldn’t be too concerned about the label.

I've also observed that churches seem to have a specific profile. When I was looking for churches I found an otherwise fine church where all activities were for couples. Not so good for a single guy. In my current church, many of the members hang out with each other outside of church. I don't live in the same community, and wouldn't do that kind of social activity anyway.

It seems like the church you were in was for a certain type of young adult. You're aging out of the group. But if you're still single you'll probably need a larger and more diverse church to avoid one that's entirely focused on couples and their families.

 

[Albion]

Hello, grandvizier. There seem to be a lot of things about the current church that do not sit well with you...and we didn't really get to very specific doctrinal problems in your message! And the issues that bother you are serious.

So the basic answer is almost too obvious. Look around. Visit some other churches, especially ones that you know to be more or less of the kind to which you are oriented, such as the Presbyterian ones in your area. See what's available.

The points to keep in mind are these: first, there is nothing wrong with changing churches. Second, if the current one is so distracting and unfulfilling, you really need to find one which does not make worship an ordeal and fails to help you grow in the faith. And third, IF some variety of Calvinism is what you really subscribe to, the Nazarene church will never align with that (Reformed) theology, even if the pastor were a better sermon-giver, the discussion groups were more focused, or any of a number of improvements were somehow to be made.

 

[hedrick]

If you’re still interested in a Presbyterian church, but don’t want one that’s so aggressively Calvinist, St Luke’s and Faith, both in Jackson, look like the nearest PCUSA churches.

There are also a couple of Evangelical Presbyterian churches in the area. They tend to be like the PCUSA except that they reject gays. (In Mississippi there’s no guarantee even about PCUSA churches.)

 

[carolina16]

I'm in a bit of a pickle in terms of choosing between two churches and need some advice on when I should feel sure about leaving or staying at my current church.

My current church is a small, store-front church. It's LOUD, and every song is set up like a rock concert, with amps and whatnot. I have to sit in the back, wear earplugs, and cover my ears just to be able to handle all of that noise. I wouldn't be surprised if many of the members become deaf later on. I should say that we're almost entirely young people (20s), so perhaps they just don't care about their hearing.

The reason why I tolerate these extremely loud services is because the people here are extremely kind. They're not pretentious, stuffy, obsessed with their own local culture, and they're here because they genuinely love God--or at least they put on a convincing show of it. For what it's worth, this is a Nazarene church, not that that is every emphasized often. Essentially anyone is welcome to join, but it's not really "for" anyone that's not a young person who both "loves" Jesus and is into loud expressions of happiness.

This church emphasizes gathering together and hanging out (and as you can imagine cared very little for mask mandates or covid regulations). Somehow we avoided a large amount of covid cases, and I mainly stayed home (and regretted it because it ended up messing me up psychologically despite my concerns to stay healthy). The church more or less grew without me, and it won't be long, I think, before we outgrow our space. Or at least we would, except this church's plan is to make a bunch of other churches of similar size.

I'm not really that kind of person. For one thing, the church goes entirely against the type of churches I was raised in. I was raised in big, stuffy, quiet Presbyterian churches. Calvinism may have a lot of aspects I either don't agree with or an attitude I don't like, but I much prefer their more quiet, somber reflections on God than the loud happiness of my current church. At Presbyterian churches, there's no big round of applause for God (which I'm starting to get tired of). I never had a pastor before who insisted on saying "turn to your neighbor and say X" that my current pastor does. Somehow he's not even married, which is kind of an unofficial requirement in some Protestant circles. We don't discuss doctrine in sermons, instead he just applies it to daily life and occasionally makes jokes or funny anecdotes. I guess a part of me is tired of funny anecdotes and wants serious discussion. Recently we did a whole sermon on demons and spiritual warfare, and while I found myself curious because Presbyterians don't really talk about demons or anything like that much at all (in my experience, at least), once the sermons on spiritual warfare was over I found that everybody else had kind of moved on after I took a few weeks off from church due to my new job being too exhausting. Now I'm just finding myself "Behind" everybody else.

I'm told that there is in fact a serious discussion "club" of sorts that means weekly outside of the regular Sunday services, but it's hardly ever promoted and I was under the impression I had to be invited, more or less. Instead the weekly fellowship meetings we do are full of questions and round-table discussions on what is really little more than opinions being shared. I guess I'm tired of those kinds of questions and prefer having either very frank, somber discussions about our issues, or really learning something intellectual. I was able to get a bit of the first one from my current church, but I had to quit going once covid started ramping up. For whatever reason whoever is in charge of deciding when these different types of groups with confusing names (sorry if anyone reading gets confused, there are basically three different types of small groups and I'm only in 1 type that I don't like), also has some very arbitrary times of when they start and end. These groups last for months, then suddenly they're "over" and we don't do them again for the next few months, then they start back up again, all completely changed with new hosts and locations. It's hard to keep track of everything. My current church basically moves too fast for me.

And on the other hand, my grandparents have found a very nice church that seems to fit them very well. From what they've told me (and I sadly had to tell them that they would not like my current church, due to the noise) it has a variety of ages present, and very smart, intellectual focused staff, which is what I'd expect from a Presbyterian church. From what I understand, there are classes anyone can join, not separated by age (at least for the adults, as far as I know). It sounds like a much more calm and rational place where I don't have to cover my ears all the time and don't have to be overly happy. And to be honest, I have a hard time loving God and am so used to just fearing Him, in both a reverent sense and an actually afraid sense. Maybe it's my Presbyterian upbringing, I don't know. But I don't know if my current Nazarene church can help me really love God because I'm not an overly hyper person unless I'm with friends and people I can trust.

So what are some signs to look out for (Biblical or normal instinct are both fine) to know which sort of church God wants me in? I feel like all of my issues with my current church don't justify leaving. And I don't want to hurt the feelings of all of the kind people, some of whom I'd call friends, that I've made at my current church. I don't want to cut them out of my life forever.

The Holy Spirit will confirm you.

 

[seeking.IAM]

...And I agree with you, you need to find a church that is feeding you spiritually, where you believe you are growing and learning, not just one that makes you "feel good".

This is great advice. Church should not be about finding friends or being around kind people. There are kind people everywhere. Perhaps not everybody, but some and enough. Church is first and foremost about worship and secondly being fed spiritually. If you are in a place where you feel like you can't worship and you aren't being fed, then you are in the wrong place.

I've been there and changed churches because of it. I couldn't be happier with my decision to leave.

 

[hedrick]

This is great advice. Church should not be about finding friends or being around kind people. There are kind people everywhere. Perhaps not everybody, but some and enough. Church is first and foremost about worship and secondly being fed spiritually. If you are in a place where you feel like you can't worship and you aren't being fed, then you are in the wrong place.

I've been there and changed churches because of it. I couldn't be happier with my decision to leave.

I think both are necessary, maybe even equally. How many accounts have we read in CF about churches that mistreated members? I think good personal relationships are a requirement. In some ways the church represents Jesus. If the way it treats people misrepresents him, nothing else can make up for that.

 

[seeking.IAM]

I think both are necessary, maybe even equally. How many accounts have we read in CF about churches that mistreated members? I think good personal relationships are a requirement. In some ways the church represents Jesus. If the way it treats people misrepresents him, nothing else can make up for that.

I was a preacher's kid in a denomination that moved pastors about every 3 to 4 years. And, I've moved a few times as an adult. I figure I've been part of more churches than most people. I've never been to a church where I couldn't find kind, supportive folks I liked. And, I've never been to a church where I've liked everybody. So for me, church isn't about people -- except to say I think when one has friendships in a church it makes it harder to leave a place when you feel it isn't right for you spiritually. Guilt over leaving is a thing, but once you've left, like me, you may want to kick yourself for not having done it sooner.

While we're at it, what's up with pastor's who think having congregants "turn to your neighbor and say x" is a good preaching strategy? Do they have the first idea how threatening that is to introverts or those more private with their own feelings? I had a pastor that did that about every Sunday. I could be counted on to turn to my neighbor and say seomthing like, "Hey, I don't do this silliness, but how are you today anyway?" Most folks are relieved that they aren't expected to do it either.

 

[hedrick]

I
While we're at it, what's up with pastor's who think having congregants "turn to your neighbor and say x" is a good preaching strategy? Do they have the first idea how threatening that is to introverts or those more private with their own feelings? I had a pastor that did that about every Sunday. I could be counted on to turn to my neighbor and say seomthing like, "Hey, I don't do this silliness, but how are you today anyway?" Most folks are relieved that they aren't expected to do it either.

Saying hello is within my abilities, but some churches go beyond that. Not to mention committees that use icebreakers that I find torture. I conjecture that pastors and committee chairs tend to be extroverts.

It's a challenge for me, because I teach Sunday School to middle schoolers. If I taught the lessons as printed it would be a class that I would have hated at that age. Not sure what to do. The educational research seems to say that pre-teens learn more from activities than from lecture or discussion. (In fact a lot of it says that for college as well.) All I can say is I hated that teaching style.

 

[grandvizier1006]

Thanks for all the feedback!

Hopefully you all won't get annoyed by me saying this now, but I think for now I'm going to be staying at my current church. Community is very important to me, even though sometimes the community at my current church is a lot of people I can't relate to.

It's true that many of them are either in college or just getting married, whereas I finished college and am single. Most of them also come from a more middle class/blue collar background then me.

I've had times in my life when I attended more than one church -- alternating weeks, or attending an early service at one church and a late service at another, etc. One of these times was in my 20s, when I was trying to decide whether to stay with the denomination I was raised in or move elsewhere. Another was when we moved to a new state and I was trying to pick a new church home.

Would something like that work for you, while you're trying to discern what kind of place is the most spiritually nurturing home for you?

The idea of switching churches for a while sounds like it has some potential, but at the moment I'm hesitant to do it. I'd feel bad about not telling the people at my current church, and I'd feel bad if I hurt their feelings by admitting there are things I don't like about our worship, such as the loud noise. That being said, I actually made a few friends in this church that ended up leaving, although I don't know why.

 

[seeking.IAM]

Good luck. Whatever your decision I hope you feel as if you can worship there and have your spiritual needs fed. If that's where you want to be, I hope it works out for you.

 

[grandvizier1006]

If you’re still interested in a Presbyterian church, but don’t want one that’s so aggressively Calvinist, St Luke’s and Faith, both in Jackson, look like the nearest PCUSA churches.

There are also a couple of Evangelical Presbyterian churches in the area. They tend to be like the PCUSA except that they reject gays. (In Mississippi there’s no guarantee even about PCUSA churches.)

I've heard of St. Luke's. A friend of mine went there and said that while they are great about accepting donated stuff and giving it back to the community (which was important to her), the community wasn't as strong. So she ended up going to the same church as me, and actually found her husband there. So I don't know if I'd pick a PCUSA church, as I'd disagree with them on homosexuality and abortion, although in Mississippi I suppose any "liberal" church would be a bit more centrist on hot-button issues.

My current church is very much pro-life and pro-traditional family--not just being against homosexuality but really encouraging marriage and having children. While I agree with all of that I simply don't know at the moment if I'm cut out for marriage; I never dated growing up. From what I understand, the Nazarenes are also against contraception, and in favor of women being ordained as pastors. I don't particularly have any strong opinions on these issues at the moment, but I do know that simply having those views would be accepted, since the emphasis is on community rather than correct doctrine or everyone agreeing to the beliefs of the denomination. There are several people at the church that I know disagree with on some of the issues, but still like going and being part of the community anyway. The big thing is, I don't know whether I consider doctrine or community to be more important.

For now I've decided to stay at my current church because I'm trying to get back into the community there, post-covid. But I'm still somewhat open to the idea of changing churches.

The loudness issue is a bit of a concern for me, but it's not really a doctrinal issue so much as it is an issue with the church unintentionally not being very accommodating to anyone who doesn't like loud noises. I think one reason I dislike the loud services is because me having Asperger's makes my hearing a bit more sensitive. One concern I have about that is with the baby boom the church will be having soon, what will happen in a few years if some of the numerous children being born to church members ends up on the autism spectrum? They're going to have a hard time enjoying church if they equate it with unpleasant sensations.

 

[JulieB67]

My criteria would be do they teach the word of God chapter by chapter and verse by verse? I'm strictly a scripture person first and foremost. It's great to have fellowship with like minded people but the Word of God would have to be the most important factor.