How do I know I am a sinner?

[MillionaireNextDoor]

I have never performed any big sins.
I have never murdered anyone or committed adultery, etc.

I know the Bible says I am a sinner but how do I know I am a sinner aside from the Bible?

 

[mepalmer3]

I have never performed any big sins.
I have never murdered anyone or committed adultery, etc.

I know the Bible says I am a sinner but how do I know I am a sinner aside from the Bible?

If you use the word "sinner" then it's probably best that you look in the bible for whether or not you're one since the bible is where the word seems used most. But basically, if you lie, then you're a liar. If you sin, then you're a sinner. So what is sin becomes the question.

The "size" of the sin doesn't seem to matter as far as whether or not someone is a sinner. So the question is, "are you perfect in what you do?" And people I think often mistaken "I haven't hurt anyone" as being the same as "I have hurt anyone and I have done all I can to help others". In today's age there seems to be a feeling that as long as no direct harm as done, a person can be perfectly good without having a lick of charity within them.

And further, according to christian theology, the "size" of the sin isn't a good measuring tool because we seem to all come from different positions and different environments. It's like vector math. It's not where you are on the good/bad scale, it seems to be more about what direction are you moving, at what speed, and at what acceleration.

 

[mepalmer3]

I know the Bible says I am a sinner but how do I know I am a sinner aside from the Bible?

I should have also said that aside from the bible, people seem to have an innate sense of right/wrong. Christian theology says it's from God. Other views are that the sense is arbitrary or an illusion, just a product of evolution/arbitrary, and others. But from the christian perspective, if you have a pretty strong feeling (urge from God) that what you're doing is wrong, then there's a pretty good chance that it is wrong.

Finally, do you mean aside from the bible in the sense of aside from all religion? Or if we pretend like the bible doesn't exist, then can we assume that oral tradition would have continued and we by and large would know the bible without having it written down?

 

[Phinehas]

Well said.

 

[Caprice]

You are a sinner because you are not the Christ. You are a sinner because you are imperfect. You are a sinner because you fall short of God's expectations.

Goodness, how many other ways can it be said? It is in your genes buddy!

One answer to "I know I am a sinner because..." would be "... I have eaten cookies out of the cookie jar even tho my parents told me not to." Yeah, in our minds it is not a "big sin" but isn't all sin equal to God???

(((HUG)))

 

[Jarrodinabubble]

You are a sinner because you are not the Christ. You are a sinner because you are imperfect. You are a sinner because you fall short of God's expectations.

So even a baby just born is a sinner?? My my.. something so innocent, yet a sinner.

 

[Gods_princess]

we were talking about this in prower up which is a new christian course 4 of course new christian and we were taught it doesn't matter wheather u steal a car or steal a lollie its still a sin in God's eye there is no big sin little sin they are all sin

 

[Jarrodinabubble]

we were talking about this in prower up which is a new christian course 4 of course new christian and we were taught it doesn't matter wheather u steal a car or steal a lollie its still a sin in God's eye there is no big sin little sin they are all sin

But which do you think your god would rather see? Someone stealing a car that a family desperatly needs and have worked hard and long days to buy, or stealing a grape from the multi-million dollar grocery store?

 

[Anduril]

I have never performed any big sins.
I have never murdered anyone or committed adultery, etc.

Are you sure?

1Jo 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

 

[Jarrodinabubble]

Are you sure?

1Jo 3:15 Whosoever hateth his brother is a murderer: and ye know that no murderer hath eternal life abiding in him.

Mat 5:27 Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery:
Mat 5:28 But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart.

Hey bud.. we live in the 21st century..

 

[Anduril]

Hey bud.. we live in the 21st century..

Why does the date have to do it? Do you think the seriousness of sin degrades over time?

 

[JustJack!]

Why not? Eating shrimp and wearing clothes of a mixed fiber faded allowed after a long enough time.

As far as the Bible goes, I and everyone else alive now is a sinner (possible exception for children via 'age of accountability'), there's no escaping it. We have all lied or stole or commited some minor crime sometime.

Outside of the Bible though, sin is a joke. It's nothing more than an arbitrary, 2,000yo moral guide. It is no more righteous or moral than what the Buddhist holds moral, or what the secular humanist holds moral.

I am a sinner, but I don't care, because it doesn't matter, because it's a joke. My 2 cents anyway.

 

[Oblivious]

As far as the Bible goes, I and everyone else alive now is a sinner (possible exception for children via 'age of accountability'), there's no escaping it. We have all lied or stole or commited some minor crime sometime.

True, we are all sinners - Christian or Non-Christian. The difference is Christians are given remission from their sins through Christ.

Outside of the Bible though, sin is a joke. It's nothing more than an arbitrary, 2,000yo moral guide. It is no more righteous or moral than what the Buddhist holds moral, or what the secular humanist holds moral.

I personally wouldn't want to live in a world with no morals, would you? Sin is not a joke. So if someone beats you up and steals your wallet, that's okay? Should we all laugh at that, being it's a joke and all?

I am a sinner, but I don't care, because it doesn't matter, because it's a joke. My 2 cents anyway.

Sorry to hear that. One day you'll be thinking much differently, believe me.

 

[JustJack!]

I personally wouldn't want to live in a world with no morals, would you? Sin is not a joke. So if someone beats you up and steals your wallet, that's okay? Should we all laugh at that, being it's a joke and all?

Did I say we should live in a world with no morals? No. I said we should live in a world without the arbitrary, unreasonable, illrational concept of sin. I don't need the Bible or "sin" to tell me that stealing is wrong. That murder, rape, lying, adultery, ect, ect are all wrong. Logic tells me that. Common sence tells me that. My conscience tells me that.

Sorry to hear that. One day you'll be thinking much differently, believe me.

I don't believe you, because it doesn't matter, because it doesn't exist. And no ammount of idle threats to the contrary will change that.

 

[Oblivious]

Did I say we should live in a world with no morals? No. I said we should live in a world without the arbitrary, unreasonable, illrational concept of sin. I don't need the Bible or "sin" to tell me that stealing is wrong. That murder, rape, lying, adultery, ect, ect are all wrong. Logic tells me that. Common sence tells me that. My conscience tells me that.

You stated that sin is a joke twice in your last post, hence why I posted what I did. So now that I posted that I see that "sin" is now wrong. So is sin wrong, a joke, or both? I'm alittle confused here.

I don't believe you, because it doesn't matter, because it doesn't exist. And no ammount of idle threats to the contrary will change that.

No threats here - just stating what I believe as is what you are doing.

 

[JustJack!]

You stated that sin is a joke twice in your last post, hence why I posted what I did. So now that I posted that I see that "sin" is now wrong. So is sin wrong, a joke, or both? I'm alittle confused here.

What, it can't be both?

No threats here - just stating what I believe as is what you are doing.

Then why the vague reference to Hell?

 

[mepalmer3]

But which do you think your god would rather see? Someone stealing a car that a family desperatly needs and have worked hard and long days to buy, or stealing a grape from the multi-million dollar grocery store?

I think he would rather see neither of those things.

I think our moral choices are more easily understood perhaps from God's perspective in the same vein that vector math might be understood. This analogy isn't perfect, but it seems to work pretty well with scripture and commonly accepted chrsitian theology.

If you consider a line with the left point being an absolute lack of goodness/love (or what we would call hell) and the other end with being absolute goodness, which we think God of as being. In every decision we make we sort of push ourselves one way or the other on the line. If we're already moving in a direction, then that push just makes us go a little bit faster in that direction. And I would also say that there are variances in the amount of force being used to push ourselves in one way or the other.

Here's a CS Lewis quote that I like that says it more poetically:

Every time you make a choice, you are turning the central part of you, the part of you that chooses, into something a little different from what it was before. And, taking your life as a whole, with all your innumerable choices, all your life long you are slowly turning this central thing either into a Heaven creature or into a hellish creature -- either into a creature that is in harmony with God, and with other creatures, and with itself, or else into one that is in a state of war and hatred with God, and with its fellow creatures and with itself. To be the one kind of creature is Heaven: that is, it is joy, and peace, and knowledge, and power. To be the other means madness, horror, idiocy, rage, impotence, and eternal loneliness. Each of us at each moment is progressing to the one state or the other.

I think God wants us to be perfect. In fact I think there can be no question about that as far as christianity goes. But in his love, he simply wants everyone to move towards him, to be perfect, to be completely loving to Him and to everyone around us, and to ourselves. And as such, a minor think as "wishing a person dead" is spoken of very harshly in the bible, not because the consequence of that act is as bad as actually murdering the person, but because the moral decision is as bad. If I go from liking a guy to wishing him dead, then I've made a pretty major change morally. Whereas if I already hate a guy and am incredibly bitter with him, killing him isn't that much extra of a push.

Does this make sense? Where the analogy breaks down I think, as many christians would be quick to point out, is that we don't ever act perfectly. And while we throw ourselves towards a complete lack of love/goodness(hell), we don't alternatively throw ourselves into a rightful spot in heaven. So it's not are we on the positive side of the good/bad line that gets us into heaven... we still are incredibly short of deserving to go to heaven. And we can't make up for lost time or lost good deeds. But enough for now on the analogy breaking down.

 

[Oblivious]

What, it can't be both?

How can it both? It's okay with you for sin - bad, immoral things to happen to people? Like you said, it doesn't really matter, does it? It's all a joke, right? Let's all just do whatever we want in life and walk on whoever we wish because it doesn't really matter! It's okay because our logic & conscience tells us it is!

Then why the vague reference to Hell?

Again, just stating my beliefs, apparently you can but I can't I guess. I believe there's a hell, I'm sure that's all a big joke like everything else, though.

 

[thomas100]

I have never performed any big sins.
I have never murdered anyone or committed adultery, etc.

I know the Bible says I am a sinner but how do I know I am a sinner aside from the Bible?

Well for me, I know that I sin because I often find that I do what I know to be wrong. I experience guilt. Guilt is interesting because with guilt you are judging yourself. There is the part of yourself that observes that something wrong was done that judges the you that did it. Amazing !

 

[JustJack!]

How can it both? It's okay with you for sin - bad, immoral things to happen to people? Like you said, it doesn't really matter, does it? It's all a joke, right? Let's all just do whatever we want in life and walk on whoever we wish because it doesn't really matter! It's okay because our logic & conscience tells us it is!

Well your name really does suit you.

You don't get it, what is considered a sin and what is actually right and wrong are not the same. On some issues, they match up. But on others, perfectly fine and morally nuetral things, such as eating certain animals (shrimp, pork, ect), or wearing clothes of a mixed fabric, having contact with a woman on her period, are sins.

The concept of sin as a moral standard is flawed, unreasonable, and illrational. That doesn't mean there is no right and wrong. Of course there is a right and wrong. But what is right and what is wrong is not defined by what is sinful.

And if your logic and your conscience tells you to walk over other ppl and treat them poorly, then you are a sick, twisted person who needs religion. But for many of us, our conscience isn't currupted. We can distinguish between right and wrong just fine, without placing faith in a flawed, man-made institution and their ancient teachings. Personally, I find that path to open to corruption.

Again, just stating my beliefs, apparently you can but I can't I guess. I believe there's a hell, I'm sure that's all a big joke like everything else, though.

I never said you shouldn't or couldn't state your beliefs. Putting words in someone's mouth is very decietful. I'm trying to conversation and you put your hand to your face and act like I'm attacking you. Is this your morality? Does you God approve of such decietful practices and tactics?