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How do I go on knowing I am an apostate?

Mackenzie Baker

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During my seven year hiatus from the lord I did went through a phase where I said I was an atheist. In Hebrews 6:4-8 it says people like me can't be redeemed again after rejecting the lord after knowing him. I want to truly return but I'm afraid it's too late for me.
 

Tolworth John

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You are quite right that those who have and are rejecting Jesus cannot be united with him. Lets put it another way If you were a member of the democrat party and you resigned your membership and joined the rebublican party it is impossible for you to become a democrat while you are a republican.

So what party do you belong to?
Are you a follower/lover of Jesus, or a hater of Jesus.

If you love him and are seeking to follow him, no matter how badly, you have nothing to fear.
 
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CrystalDragon

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You are quite right that those who have and are rejecting Jesus cannot be united with him. Lets put it another way If you were a member of the democrat party and you resigned your membership and joined the rebublican party it is impossible for you to become a democrat while you are a republican.

So what party do you belong to?
Are you a follower/lover of Jesus, or a hater of Jesus.

If you love him and are seeking to follow him, no matter how badly, you have nothing to fear.


I think it's an insult to automatically assume someone hates Jesus just because there's an atheist.
 
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visionary

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Just as the parable of the lost sheep where the shepherd goes after the lost, so it is with you. You were once a part of His lambs, strayed and now lost, the shepherd has found you. Otherwise, how could you hear His calling you home. Go and fear not for His love for you endureth forever.

The story of the prodigal son also reveals that when you come to your senses as did the prodigal son, you will be welcomed home long before you get there by the Father with fatted calve. God is going to celebrate your return.
 
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Kerensa

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Hi Mackenzie,

I don't think Jesus told the parables of the lost sheep and the lost coin and especially the Prodigal Son for nothing. :) Seriously, would a good human parent ever reject his or her own child who'd gone completely off the rails (so to speak) but then turned around, truly and desperately yearning to come back into the family? Then "how much more shall your heavenly Father..."

I loved Jesus as a child and wanted to follow him, but then completely lost my faith, rejected Christianity and considered myself an agnostic all through my teens — but when I came back, it gradually became clear that God had never lost sight of me even all those years when I thought I'd lost sight of Him. This is the Shepherd who will not rest until every lost sheep is brought back to the fold, until every wayward son or daughter is welcomed home.

And there are people who've done far worse things than you or I and have still been turned around and brought back to Christ. There was a story I read a while ago from the early history of the Church that has really stayed with me, and that I've just found again. I just feel it's worth sharing:

According to the Christian historian Eusebius, the Apostle John, visiting a church near Ephesus, met a lad there whom he felt showed great promise, so he asked one of the church elders to look after him specially. But as the boy grew older, the care over him was relaxed and he turned away from the church. As Eusebius records, this young man...

... was led sadly astray by others of his own age who were idle, dissolute, and evil-livers. First they led him on by expensive entertainments; then they took him with them when they went out at night to commit robbery; then they urged him to take part in even greater crimes. Little by little he fell into their ways; and like a hard-mouthed powerful horse he dashed off the straight road, and taking the bit between his teeth rushed down the precipice the more violently because of his immense vitality. Completely renouncing God's salvation, he was no longer content with petty offenses, but, as his life was already in ruins, he decided to commit a major crime and suffer the same fate as the others. He took these same young renegades and formed them into a gang of bandits of which his was the master mind, surpassing them all in violence, cruelty, and bloodthirstiness.

Meanwhile, John returned to that church and asked after his young friend; on hearing what had happened to him, he went in search of him at once:

When he arrived at the place, and was seized by the bandits' sentry-group, he made no attempt to escape and asked no mercy, but shouted: 'This is what I have come for: take me to your leader.' ... as John approached, he [the young man] recognized him, and filled with shame, turned to flee. But John ran after him as hard as he could, forgetting his years and calling out: 'Why do you run away from me, child...? You still have hopes of life. I will account to Christ for you. If need be, I will gladly suffer your death, as the Lord suffered death for us; to save you I will give my own life. Stop! believe! Christ sent me.'

"When he heard this, the young man stopped and stood with his eyes on the ground; then he threw down his weapons; then he trembled and began to weep bitterly.... Then he [John] brought him back to the church, interceded for him with many prayers, shared with him the ordeal of continuous fasting... and did not leave him, we are told, till he had restored him to the Church, giving a perfect example of true repentance and a perfect proof of regeneration, the trophy of a visible resurrection.

(quoted from The History of the Church from Christ to Constantine, Dorset Press, England, 1984, pp. 129-131)

Now if that young man who had not only "completely renounc[ed] God's salvation", but turned to a life of ruthless and violent crime, could be won over and brought back and accepted again in Christ... well, I can't help thinking there's hope for us all yet. :blacksunrays:
 
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Mackenzie Baker

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Hi Mackenzie,

I don't think Jesus told the parables of the lost sheep and the lost coin and especially the Prodigal Son for nothing. :) Seriously, would a good human parent ever reject his or her own child who'd gone completely off the rails (so to speak) but then turned around, truly and desperately yearning to come back into the family? Then "how much more shall your heavenly Father..."

I loved Jesus as a child and wanted to follow him, but then completely lost my faith, rejected Christianity and considered myself an agnostic all through my teens — but when I came back, it gradually became clear that God had never lost sight of me even all those years when I thought I'd lost sight of Him. This is the Shepherd who will not rest until every lost sheep is brought back to the fold, until every wayward son or daughter is welcomed home.

And there are people who've done far worse things than you or I and have still been turned around and brought back to Christ. There was a story I read a while ago from the early history of the Church that has really stayed with me, and that I've just found again. I just feel it's worth sharing:

According to the Christian historian Eusebius, the Apostle John, visiting a church near Ephesus, met a lad there whom he felt showed great promise, so he asked one of the church elders to look after him specially. But as the boy grew older, the care over him was relaxed and he turned away from the church. As Eusebius records, this young man...

... was led sadly astray by others of his own age who were idle, dissolute, and evil-livers. First they led him on by expensive entertainments; then they took him with them when they went out at night to commit robbery; then they urged him to take part in even greater crimes. Little by little he fell into their ways; and like a hard-mouthed powerful horse he dashed off the straight road, and taking the bit between his teeth rushed down the precipice the more violently because of his immense vitality. Completely renouncing God's salvation, he was no longer content with petty offenses, but, as his life was already in ruins, he decided to commit a major crime and suffer the same fate as the others. He took these same young renegades and formed them into a gang of bandits of which his was the master mind, surpassing them all in violence, cruelty, and bloodthirstiness.

Meanwhile, John returned to that church and asked after his young friend; on hearing what had happened to him, he went in search of him at once:

When he arrived at the place, and was seized by the bandits' sentry-group, he made no attempt to escape and asked no mercy, but shouted: 'This is what I have come for: take me to your leader.' ... as John approached, he [the young man] recognized him, and filled with shame, turned to flee. But John ran after him as hard as he could, forgetting his years and calling out: 'Why do you run away from me, child...? You still have hopes of life. I will account to Christ for you. If need be, I will gladly suffer your death, as the Lord suffered death for us; to save you I will give my own life. Stop! believe! Christ sent me.'

"When he heard this, the young man stopped and stood with his eyes on the ground; then he threw down his weapons; then he trembled and began to weep bitterly.... Then he [John] brought him back to the church, interceded for him with many prayers, shared with him the ordeal of continuous fasting... and did not leave him, we are told, till he had restored him to the Church, giving a perfect example of true repentance and a perfect proof of regeneration, the trophy of a visible resurrection.

(quoted from The History of the Church from Christ to Constantine, Dorset Press, England, 1984, pp. 129-131)

Now if that young man who had not only "completely renounc[ed] God's salvation", but turned to a life of ruthless and violent crime, could be won over and brought back and accepted again in Christ... well, I can't help thinking there's hope for us all yet. :blacksunrays:
But according to scripture it says I put him to shame by re crucifing him and that there is no repentance for me
 
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CrystalDragon

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But according to scripture it says I put him to shame by re crucifing him and that there is no repentance for me


There's always repentance for you. If that's your interpretation than your despair is causing your mind to become clouded. Such thinking is harmful.
 
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Albion

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During my seven year hiatus from the lord I did went through a phase where I said I was an atheist. In Hebrews 6:4-8 it says people like me can't be redeemed again after rejecting the lord after knowing him. I want to truly return but I'm afraid it's too late for me.
a jillion very smart theologians and Bible scholars would say that it's not too late, but let's leave that verse to them for the moment. My question would be this:

You said that you "went through a phase where I said I was an atheist." To me, the phrase, "went through a phase" and the statement, "I said I was..." seemingly qualify the idea of you having apostacized.

The first one is what you'd say after the fact, looking back on its lack of permanence, so I won't dwell on it. The other one, however, makes me think that many of us have doubts at one time or another and/or we think we've seen the wisdom in some contrary set of beliefs, etc. But it passes,or we find real evidence indicating that we were wrong about that.

You are a thinker, so it's likely that you did not actually apostacize (which is a firm renunciation of the faith) but instead went through a "down" period that even some of the greatest of the saints of the past are recorded in history as having experienced.
 
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Mackenzie Baker

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Is your testimony on here as to how you became a
Christian at 16? Did something happen to lead you away from the faith about a year or so later? A true child of God should be chastened by the Father. A Christian becomes saved as a babe in Christ and is to grow to get on the meat of the Word. I'm not sure that you ever gave yourself time for that part. We are to put off the old man/creature-and become a new creature in Christ.

Thinking about what Galatians 4:19 says.
It started when my stepdad didn't want to go to the church we were going to for a few years (never really got a clear answer as to why.) that was also around the same time I started working. Usually weekends so I couldn't attend church most of the time. Over time I kinda stopped praying and reading and a few years passed where I made that decision to identify myself as an atheist. During that time I had moments where I felt it was wrong as to what I was doing but I kept pushing it aside until a few weeks ago.
 
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Kerensa

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Mackenzie, now I think about it, possibly my reason for sharing that long story earlier was that it's an account of how the Apostle John went straight after a young man who had completely rejected Christ and offered his own life, if necessary, to redeem him. John clearly did not believe that one who had known Christ and then turned away could never be saved. If John — who was one of our Lord's own closest disciples — didn't believe that, why should you?

As Visionary said, how could you hear the Shepherd calling you home now — as you obviously can — if He wasn't waiting to welcome you with open arms? Why would He call you, unless He knows you and loves you and wants you to be with Him?

Just read your latest post now — it sounds very much like you knew deep down, all along, that this wasn't right and you didn't truly want to be an atheist. So you can't have truly rejected the Lord, can you, no matter how many times you told yourself you had?

Don't listen to those thoughts that say you're unredeemable and can't ever be forgiven. That's not God talking — that's the devil's most insidious trick, to get you running from God instead of turning to Him. Run to Him! He loves you! He'll show you. You'll know. :star:
 
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visionary

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But according to scripture it says I put him to shame by re crucifing him and that there is no repentance for me
Satan's favorite verse to block the return of the Prodigal child of God. Let me ask you this.. Who called you back? If He called you back, why would He reject you?
 
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Kerensa

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Is it still possible for me to still live life for him...

Mate, seriously, which part of

yes_logo.png


do you not understand? ;);):)
 
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Mackenzie Baker

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It's just that this fits my description.
We have found in Hebrews 6:4 that it is impossible for the apostate to be renewed again to repentance. The Bible is clear that only through repentance can one be saved (Acts 2:38; 11:18). Hebrews 10:26 tells us that there is “no sacrifice for sins” remaining for the apostate. “The apostate has sins but no available sacrifice for his sins. Having rejected the sacrifice made by Jesus Christ, there is no other sacrifice to which to turn.”

I didn't initially worry about this as i wanted to truly serve the lord, but over time I finally realized this.
 
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Mackenzie Baker

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It's just that this fits my description.
We have found in Hebrews 6:4 that it is impossible for the apostate to be renewed again to repentance. The Bible is clear that only through repentance can one be saved (Acts 2:38; 11:18). Hebrews 10:26 tells us that there is “no sacrifice for sins” remaining for the apostate. “The apostate has sins but no available sacrifice for his sins. Having rejected the sacrifice made by Jesus Christ, there is no other sacrifice to which to turn.”

I didn't initially worry about this as i wanted to truly serve the lord, but over time I finally realized this.
Everyone gets quiet after this one.
 
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Kerensa

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It's just that this fits my description.
We have found in Hebrews 6:4 that it is impossible for the apostate to be renewed again to repentance. The Bible is clear that only through repentance can one be saved (Acts 2:38; 11:18). Hebrews 10:26 tells us that there is “no sacrifice for sins” remaining for the apostate. “The apostate has sins but no available sacrifice for his sins. Having rejected the sacrifice made by Jesus Christ, there is no other sacrifice to which to turn.”

I didn't initially worry about this as i wanted to truly serve the lord, but over time I finally realized this.

I don't know who wrote the Letter to the Hebrews — well, no-one does — but the writer in that passage is defining apostasy as a state of thought that cannot be "brought back to repentance" (NIV) or "restore[d] to repentance" (J.B. Phillips). But you ARE restored to repentance — you wouldn't write what you've written and be longing to return to the Lord if you weren't. Therefore you cannot be the apostate that the author of Hebrews is referring to; therefore that passage does not apply to your situation. End of story. :)

And are there any words, in earth or heaven, more powerful than those of our Lord and Master?

All those the Father gives me will come to me,
and whoever comes to me I will never drive away.
For I have come down from heaven not to do my will
but to do the will of him who sent me.
And this is the will of him who sent me,
that I shall lose none of all those he has given me,
but raise them up at the last day.
For my Father’s will is that everyone
who looks to the Son and believes in him
shall have eternal life,
and I will raise them up at the last day.

(John 6:37-40, NIV)
 
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