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I appreciate your feedback, but to clarify, no church leader ever told me my parents became "unsaved". I'm just worried that they've seen church as a social club their entire lives, and now because they're older they think they don't have to go to a church anymore.Your parents are grown up enough to manage their own faith journey with God! If your new church are telling you and your brothers that your parents have "unsaved themselves" please be sceptical on that point!
Your parents are probably not hopeful of persuading you - for the time being - of the sanity of their course given how much under the thumb of the prevalent attitude of church organisations in your neighbourhood you are.
When you become open-minded about them and yourself and your brothers and Jesus, they will see and decide whether and how to explain themselves.
It sounds like your region is riddled with churches that imply strange "conclusions" about everybody that does and doesn't attend them (to cover for their insecurities in belief and / or conduct) (good preachers preach about all sorts of things). And like all churches everywhere nowadays, that they don't have any idea what "evangelise" is.
Remember you are not under any church's authority at all, except in a few rare points like if you were a major volunteer. And especially not in how you should think about any matter. And that anyone's, such as my and especially your and your brothers' opinion can be better than your church bosses'.
I remember with shame those days when I thought religious leaders had to tell me what to think. It held my whole life back considerably.
A problem in lots of localities is that while pretending to be rival and friendly congregations at the same time (and in reality neither) the church bosses and congregations engage in mass neurosis in "analysing" the status of their own and each others' congregants. Your parents wanted to get out of that bad scene altogether and you are free to weigh it up in your own time. If the decency of certain friends outweighs that, then good.
I've left congregations that didn't smell good (the church had no belief though they boasted of their belief) and lost friends because I didn't cultivate them as individual persons. (Maybe it was right for them to cope with that church longer than it was for me.) From now on I have to appreciate people for who they are and not for their convenience in attending where I attend. (In some cases however, they didn't want to keep in touch precisely because I left their church.)
Some churches may be clingy with your dad while he is salary earning hahaha. They may be "projecting" their budget! Please pray that they haven't sent word on ahead to his new region or that it gets ignored if they have.
Also, it's not your and your brothers' fault for trusting in Jesus! Jesus doesn't approve of any of the nonsense!
Sometimes the old can show a good example in the principle of thoughtfulness to those younger. Holy Scripture says we're to always be thoughtful and always to discern, and to seek and value background knowledge on all subjects. I'm sure they would want you to use your own discretion about how you should evaluate and relate to your own chosen church at any time. I'm sure they have had their own hard won learning curve.
Pray. Pray. Pray. I don't think you can change them.I was raised in the church, but sometime after I got into college my parents stopped going to church. I think this was for two reasons: 1) They claimed the pastor at the nearest one we went to "talked about the same thing over and over". Apparently he emphasized God loving us "too much". Sounds ridiculous, I know, but this was what they told me when I tried asking them about it. And 2) A church that we used to go to had a pastor that was on the Ashley Madison list. Ashley Madison was a dating social network designed for married men to discretely cheat on their wives. Most of the women turned out to be just bots, but when a list of all the men who had used it was leaked, it was a devastating scandal. Even though by this point we didn't go to that church anymore, I think it really turned my parents off from church even more than they had already been.
I also feel like I'm to blame a bit. When I was a kid, I didn't like going to church. We had to dress up in fancy clothes, sit still and be quiet, which is a lot of conformity to put onto a child. My parents forced us to go and forced us to socialize with people, and I didn't like getting to know people I was only going to see for one day of the week. I didn't like socializing with people back then. I'm on the autism spectrum and that may have had something to do with it. So maybe me and my twin brother's autism (my twin brother also doesn't believe, but he's in a different state) made it so that church was just a place where we showed up on Sunday for the service, and then left. This was especially prominent once we switched churches (from the church where the pastor was on the Ashley Madison list, to the one where the pastor kept talking about God's love "too much"). At the first church, we stayed for Sunday school, but when we went to the second church, we just showed up for the sermon and then left. It didn't help that the second church was bigger and it was harder to get to know people.
In any case, now my parents won't go to church. They think watching a sermon online is equivalent to going to church. That may have made sense during the pandemic, but it's over now. I've tried inviting them to my Bible study but they claim that they "already know all the Bible stories" and are "too old" to learn anything new. They seem to think that they've "outgrown" church now that all of their children have grown up. I go to a third church now in a different denomination, but it's full of young people and way too loud. I don't think they'd like it, and if I tried to invite them they'd turn me down.
People keep saying I need to just let myself be a light for Christ. But I don't know if that will be enough to bring them back to God.
That doesn't invalidate any of our feedback. Where have you heard the phrase "social club"? How would you know how your parents "treat church"? Can you see inside their heads? Do you know what elders or deacons were doing to them? Was it a waste of time - for them - that they had a part in your life?I appreciate your feedback, but to clarify, no church leader ever told me my parents became "unsaved". I'm just worried that they've seen church as a social club their entire lives, and now because they're older they think they don't have to go to a church anymore.
You are judging churches and deciding who he should be or not be judging or accusing.That doesn't invalidate any of our feedback. Where have you heard the phrase "social club"? How would you know how your parents "treat church"? Can you see inside their heads? Do you know what elders or deacons were doing to them? Was it a waste of time - for them - that they had a part in your life?
The new and nasty fashion in almost all church organisations of late is to pry into how long couples are going to be living in the neighbourhood (partly on budget grounds), how to "fix them up" with an "approved" church in their new town, and so on. Maybe it's their fellow parishioners that you should be accusing and not them.
How sad that you still come off as criticizing a Christian who asked for advice.You could always pray more for yourself. Read more widely in the Scriptures. What else does evangelising really mean? Now that you've glimpsed the gospel, what will Jesus and Holy Spirit do for you? Salvation will have to be bodily in future too and do you think the bodily future is certain? Do Scriptures give us information about these questions? Pass it on to (any) fellow believers yourself and don't wait for somebody's preacher or vicar to do so.
You seem to think he did something wrong. I disagree with you. When we express concerns we expect fellow Christians to be kind and helpful.Why not feel gratefulness towards God for what is going to be in your life, and assurance that He will reward your parents, and that He will prescribe how that shall continue to manifest in their own current lives, which doesn't fall to you to prescribe. Do you think He hasn't got a hotline to them that He doesn't (always) need you to man? Relax because we all face hard real work!
They don't.......and now because they're older they think they don't have to go to a church anymore.
I've observed the trend, hopefully it didn't impact grandvizier1006 or his parents.You are judging ... kind and helpful.
It's ok, I'm not offended. You could be right in that my parents are still Christians, but I myself wonder how authentic their faith is since it seems to be something they never discuss. I don't understand why they're so reluctant to go to a church here and instead want to wait two and a half years, then go to one in another city. They claim that they have already heard everything from the Bible and are tired of hearing the same things over and over. I don't really talk about it a lot, though, since they tend to just dismiss things they don't want to talk about.I've observed the trend, hopefully it didn't impact grandvizier1006 or his parents.
Lately I found I can't discreetly visit a smattering of churches in turn, they pry unasked.
Grandvizier1006 didn't do wrong, neither from his account did his parents. The best way of evangelising fellow believers (which ongoing believers still need) is to pray.
Grandvizier, sorry that I came across as criticising you.
I think that’s because a lot of pastors preach towards new and young believers. It’s difficult and frustrating when you look for a church that caters towards breaking bondage, healing, spiritual warfare and moves away from a religious relationship with Christ and preaches on strengthening a personal relationship with Christ. There’s a lot of people that teach a very surface level Bible.It's ok, I'm not offended. You could be right in that my parents are still Christians, but I myself wonder how authentic their faith is since it seems to be something they never discuss. I don't understand why they're so reluctant to go to a church here and instead want to wait two and a half years, then go to one in another city. They claim that they have already heard everything from the Bible and are tired of hearing the same things over and over. I don't really talk about it a lot, though, since they tend to just dismiss things they don't want to talk about.
the best way to help keep people's "evangel" quotient up is prayer life especially generic prayers. When and as you gain insight beyond the initial basics, you can share that with them and it will help them along / reassure them.It's ok, I'm not offended. You could be right in that my parents are still Christians, but I myself wonder how authentic their faith is since it seems to be something they never discuss. I don't understand why they're so reluctant to go to a church here and instead want to wait two and a half years, then go to one in another city. They claim that they have already heard everything from the Bible and are tired of hearing the same things over and over. I don't really talk about it a lot, though, since they tend to just dismiss things they don't want to talk about.
I don't feel comfortable naming the specific pastor because it's not really his fault, but one time a few months ago I noticed my mom listening to a sermon from the pastor of the last church they went to (which they left because they claimed he talked too much about God's love). I'd like to invite them to mine, but they would be the oldest people there, and they would also find it very surface level. They seem to really like the one in the other city, but I know little about it. I suppose I'd have to attend with them at some point.I think that’s because a lot of pastors preach towards new and young believers. It’s difficult and frustrating when you look for a church that caters towards breaking bondage, healing, spiritual warfare and moves away from a religious relationship with Christ and preaches on strengthening a personal relationship with Christ. There’s a lot of people that teach a very surface level Bible.
When I was in my teens and early 20s I could still learn from that surface level. I go to church for my kids, if I didn’t have children the churches in my area would be the same as going to a country club. If I lived in New York still, I wouldn’t feel like that, I know a lot of pastor really preaching a full gospel. If my kids are out of town I’m not going to church unless I hear there’s a pastor within a 6 hour drive that can really preach.
I think they’ve given you their answer on why. They’re going to churches where they hear the same scripture, told the same way and they’ve surpassed that level. What’s the difference between the church they plan on going to and the churches in your area? What type of Pastors are they listening to on youtube(names please)? Have you ever asked them what they’re looking for in pastor and or church? The country club phrase is something I’ve used to describe my current church so I’m pretty I understand how they feel.
Very interesting nuance you've noticed! I'm (single and) now 10 years older than the next oldest in my church and he is 10 plus years older than all the rest. I'm not sure whether my implicit perspective is an object of obliviousness or suspicious discomfort . . . Anyway, with a continual prayer habit (not awaiting permission) and a downbeat sense of humour we'll carry on muddling along not too badly I'm sure.... they would be the oldest people there ...
The church I've been going to is mainly for young people. It's not "seeker friendly" because it is firmly Nazarene, but it definitely emphasizes community over doctrine.Very interesting nuance you've noticed! I'm (single and) now 10 years older than the next oldest in my church and he is 10 plus years older than all the rest. I'm not sure whether my implicit perspective is an object of obliviousness or suspicious discomfort . . . Anyway, with a continual prayer habit (not awaiting permission) and a downbeat sense of humour we'll carry on muddling along not too badly I'm sure.
What you said resonates so well in so many of us. Especially the uncomfortable, formal clothes. I used to despise that so much. For about 2 hours it was just loathed every week. Parents, make sure your child is comfortable in church! If your children complain about formal clothing make it comfortable for them. This is REALLY important as it can set up negative attitudes to something rather important later on. Like their death and what happens after! It's not so hard for clothes to be comfortable and be formal enough to show respect in church. Let them be more involved in the clothes selection process as well each week. And try to get them into a children's program that is relevant, not some old guy droning on and on at the pulpit every week about stuff that has nothing to do with you. Children's programs focus on relevance, otherwise they wouldn't be children's programs! That makes all the difference. Just make sure the children are never alone with the adult teacher for any reason, anytime. A predator will not be drawn to such a place, your biggest protector.I was raised in the church, but sometime after I got into college my parents stopped going to church. I think this was for two reasons: 1) They claimed the pastor at the nearest one we went to "talked about the same thing over and over". Apparently he emphasized God loving us "too much". Sounds ridiculous, I know, but this was what they told me when I tried asking them about it. And 2) A church that we used to go to had a pastor that was on the Ashley Madison list. Ashley Madison was a dating social network designed for married men to discretely cheat on their wives. Most of the women turned out to be just bots, but when a list of all the men who had used it was leaked, it was a devastating scandal. Even though by this point we didn't go to that church anymore, I think it really turned my parents off from church even more than they had already been.
I also feel like I'm to blame a bit. When I was a kid, I didn't like going to church. We had to dress up in fancy clothes, sit still and be quiet, which is a lot of conformity to put onto a child. My parents forced us to go and forced us to socialize with people, and I didn't like getting to know people I was only going to see for one day of the week. I didn't like socializing with people back then. I'm on the autism spectrum and that may have had something to do with it. So maybe me and my twin brother's autism (my twin brother also doesn't believe, but he's in a different state) made it so that church was just a place where we showed up on Sunday for the service, and then left. This was especially prominent once we switched churches (from the church where the pastor was on the Ashley Madison list, to the one where the pastor kept talking about God's love "too much"). At the first church, we stayed for Sunday school, but when we went to the second church, we just showed up for the sermon and then left. It didn't help that the second church was bigger and it was harder to get to know people.
In any case, now my parents won't go to church. They think watching a sermon online is equivalent to going to church. That may have made sense during the pandemic, but it's over now. I've tried inviting them to my Bible study but they claim that they "already know all the Bible stories" and are "too old" to learn anything new. They seem to think that they've "outgrown" church now that all of their children have grown up. I go to a third church now in a different denomination, but it's full of young people and way too loud. I don't think they'd like it, and if I tried to invite them they'd turn me down.
People keep saying I need to just let myself be a light for Christ. But I don't know if that will be enough to bring them back to God.
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