How do abortion supporters respond to this? I don't think there is a way to.

Mel333 · May 30, 2019

I'd say you do have to freedom to do all those things if you choose although they are morally wrong and you'd end up in prison for the murder one, sentenced for the stealing one.

Are you saying Americans want to sentence people who have abortions and imprison them too?

Danielwright2311 · May 30, 2019

Mel333 said:
I'd say you do have to freedom to do all those things if you choose although they are morally wrong and you'd end up in prison for the murder one, sentenced for the stealing one.

Are you saying Americans want to sentence people who have abortions and imprison them too?

Abortion is murder, so, yes, It would save billions of lives.

If murder was legal, there would be billions of murders.

Mel333 · May 30, 2019

Americans must understand, that in order to charge the abortion laws you will have to change the freedom of choice part in the law and redefine what murder means.

Murder is currently the crime of unlawfully killing 'a person' especially with malice. (That's wikipedia's definition) If someone has the constitution definition I'm all ears.

So you'd have to change the definition of what murder means or when a human becomes a human. Even though, we all know that a baby is a baby moving around, a life inside one's womb.

Then you'd need to criminalize abortion where teen women who abort will be incarcerated, and if they are in a state that has the death penalty, well then, teen woman gets murdered by the state.

Then you'll all be advocating social justice for the teen women or the 12 year olds or people who are forced to have the child and then its mother is in jail or murdered by the state.

So the debate will never end.

According to your laws, abortion is not defined as murder. If it were, they'd criminalize women who try to have abortions.

Danielwright2311 · May 30, 2019

Mel333 said:
Americans must understand, that in order to charge the abortion laws you will have to change the freedom of choice part in the constitution and redefine what murder means.

Murder is currently the crime of unlawfully killing 'a person' especially with malice. (That's wikipedia's definition) If someone has the constitution definition I'm all ears.

So you'd have to change the definition of what murder means or when a human becomes a human. Even though, we all know that a baby is a baby moving around, a life inside one's womb.

Then you'd need to criminalize abortion where teen women who abort will be incarcerated, and if they are in a state that has the death penalty, well then, teen woman gets murdered by the state.

Then you'll all be advocating social justice for the teen women or the 12 year olds or people who are forced to have the child and then its mother is in jail or murdered by the state.

So the debate will never end.

According to your constitution, abortion is not defined as murder. If it were, they'd criminalize women who try to have abortions.

Yes, this is true,

But when a 12 year old shoots another person, they are charged with murder.

And it is true, we need to redefine murder, but also it is more important to teach Jesus and his forgiveness tot he ones who do commit abortion, but also to the ones who commit murder also.

Mel333 · May 30, 2019

Danielwright2311 said:
Yes, this is true,

But when a 12 year old shoots another person, they are charged with murder.

And it is true, we need to redefine murder, but also it is more important to teach Jesus and his forgiveness tot he ones who do commit abortion, but also to the ones who commit murder also.

Maybe you could forgive the people who have had abortions?

Danielwright2311 · May 30, 2019

Mel333 said:
Maybe you could forgive the people who have had abortions?

I do, its not me who judges and my judgment does nothing, this is not about our judgment, its about gods.

Hell is forever, and its torment and suffering and i do not wish this on any one, ever, nor does God, he wishes all to come to him.

As belief is a gift from god, he can only give it to the ones who seek him and his perfect commandments. All we can do is warn and show how killing baby's is not of God and he does not want it period.

There are other ways to deal with unwanted pregnancies.

Mel333 · May 30, 2019

Danielwright2311 said:
I do, its not me who judges and my judgment does nothing, this is not about our judgment, its about gods.

Hell is forever, and its torment and suffering and i do not wish this on any one, ever, nor does God, he wishes all to come to him.

As belief is a gift from god, he can only give it to the ones who seek him and his perfect commandments. All we can do is warn and show how killing baby's is not of God and he does not want it period.

There are other ways to deal with unwanted pregnancies.

I agree with the warning people not to kill their babies and loving people where they are at.

grasping the after wind · May 30, 2019

ChristianForCats said:
My point is stopping abortion requires helping girls and women get what they need during nine months of carrying unwanted babies.

Perhaps it requires not getting oneself pregnant unless one wants a baby.

Danielwright2311 · May 30, 2019

grasping the after wind said:
Perhaps it requires not getting oneself pregnant unless one wants a baby.

Life does not work this way, we all want the same thing, partner ship, to be loved and wanted.

And to do this we share each other, so this is what makes babies.

You can not stop love.

RaymondG · May 30, 2019

I agree that ending suffering is a poor excuse for supporting abortion. I also happen to believe that "I believe XYZ is murder and wrong," is a poor excuse to try and take away the free will of another.

SPF · May 30, 2019

RaymondG said:
"I believe XYZ is murder and wrong," is a poor excuse to try and take away the free will of another.

This makes no sense and I don't think you actually believe it.

I assume you have no problem with the government taking away the free will of your neighbor by telling him it is illegal for him to come over and kill you, right?

We're talking murder here - the killing of a completely innocent party. Shouldn't that be the very first thing we look to the government to make illegal?!

RaymondG · May 30, 2019

Mel333 said:
Oh and if we are going to label it, I'm pro-choice for this debate as God is pro-choice for us to choose to do the right thing in life and that's not to murder.

The question remains......is abortion murder? The most common type of abortions are those done by God.....called Spontaneous abortions. Do we believe that these are babies dying? Should there be funerals and thoughts of whether or not these millions are in heaven or hell? Are are they flesh that went to dust, whose spirit was unaffected and probably never knew or associated itself with the flesh?

RaymondG · May 30, 2019

Danielwright2311 said:
Abortion is murder, so, yes, It would save billions of lives.

If murder was legal, there would be billions of murders.

Would you say that God is murdering billions through the most common abortion....spontaneous abortions? How would you justify this....if abortion is murder?

Danielwright2311 · May 30, 2019

RaymondG said:
Would you say that God is murdering billions through the most common abortion....spontaneous abortions? How would you justify this....if abortion is murder?

I do not question god in any way.

He only knows why he takes a life and does not take others.

For him, it is not murder, he is the creator of life, you can no commit murder on your own creation, its impossible.

Murder is when you have no right to take a life,

God had every right to take any life.

RaymondG · May 30, 2019

SPF said:
This makes no sense and I don't think you actually believe it.

I assume you have no problem with the government taking away the free will of your neighbor by telling him it is illegal for him to come over and kill you, right?

We're talking murder here - the killing of a completely innocent party. Shouldn't that be the very first thing we look to the government to make illegal?!

I already know and understand that you see killing a preacher, a father , a husband as exactly the same as aborting a 3 week old fetus. One who aborts a baby to save their own life, in your eyes, is also capable of walking up to children in the playground and shooting them in the head.

And I find no fault in anything you believe.....I honor your free will to choose what you desire to believe.

I believe there is a difference, between women who abort and the gunmen who shoot up the churches. Can you respect my will free to choose to separate these two? Or do you desire to take away even the ability to choose to disagree with you?

RaymondG · May 30, 2019

Danielwright2311 said:
I do not question god in any way.

He only knows why he takes a life and does not take others.

For him, it is not murder, he is the creator of life, you can no commit murder on your own creation, its impossible.

Murder is when you have no right to take a life,

God had every right to take any life.

You say He is the creator of life.........Do you not also believe that He can sustain life? Has the God you serve ever told one to live for 80 years, who was aborted before they could do what He commanded?

SPF · May 30, 2019

RaymondG said:
I already know and understand that you see killing a preacher, a father , a husband as exactly the same as aborting a 3 week old fetus. One who aborts a baby to save their own life, in your eyes, is also capable of walking up to children in the playground and shooting them in the head.

And I find no fault in anything you believe.....I honor your free will to choose what you desire to believe.

I believe there is a difference, between women who abort and the gunmen who shoot up the churches. Can you respect my will free to choose to separate these two? Or do you desire to take away even the ability to choose to disagree with you?

You've missed the point entirely.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that you are in favor of it being illegal for your neighbor to kill you because he doesn't like you, right? You are in favor of him not having this free will, right?

How is that any different than me being in favor of it being illegal for a woman to kill her unborn because she doesn't want the responsibility of raising her?

Mel333 · May 30, 2019

RaymondG said:
Would you say that God is murdering billions through the most common abortion....spontaneous abortions? How would you justify this....if abortion is murder?

Interesting debate. Spontaneous abortions. The ones that don't make it. The miscarriages.

Did God murder the child because he let it happen? Or is it just the laws of nature?

This wouldn't be defined as murder as the human legal definition of murder is human to human and intended malice.

Danielwright2311 · May 30, 2019

RaymondG said:
You say He is the creator of life.........Do you not also believe that He can sustain life? Has the God you serve ever told one to live for 80 years, who was aborted before they could do what He commanded?

If this argument had real barrens they would have to be set on real life reasons like.

Will this child be saved or not?

will this child be abused so bad they deny God?

will this child be blessed with heaven before the struggles of life on earth?

There are many other reasons i'm sure, we can not judge these things as God only know the question to them.

RaymondG · May 30, 2019

SPF said:
You've missed the point entirely.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that you are in favor of it being illegal for your neighbor to kill you because he doesn't like you, right? You are in favor of him not having this free will, right?

How is that any different than me being in favor of it being illegal for a woman to kill her unborn because she doesn't want the responsibility of raising her?

The difference is, you are mixing law with your personal feelings. The law causes the ending of a life outside the womb, murder....this person was killed.....it does not currently say that for those inside the womb.

And your neighbor still has the free will to killl you....this kind of thing happens all the time....but we are now talking about protecting the unborn.....can we focus on them without talking about stopping murder outside of the womb?

If it make you feel good to call one, who was raped, a murderer, because she was not able to bare the emotional pain of keeping the child....by all mean, berate her. I find no fault in it.

I choose not to do so.....It that ok with you?

How do abortion supporters respond to this? I don't think there is a way to.

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