How did Lucifer fall from heaven?

Sword-In-Hand · Feb 14, 2005

I got asked this question, luckily by a Christian because I was "a-buh" on the answer, but how did the devil sin in a place that has no sin? Or was heaven an entirely different realm at that time? Any and all advice, especially scripture would be awesome.

hindsey · Feb 14, 2005

Um, do we know that heaven is a place that can not have sin? It's clear sin would not stay in Heaven since God is there, but we believers won't sin in Heaven because God changes us. It's a good question though...

Matthan · Feb 14, 2005

Sword, I wrote an essay on satan's fall. I was interested in tht subject, and did a lot of research, for what it is worth. I was primarily interested in "when" he fell from grace, but I also covered my thoughts as to why. It does not mean very much because there is so little Scripture to rely on. But, it does pose some interesting questions.

Let me know via PM if you are interested, and I will direct you to it.

Matthan <J><

Sword-In-Hand · Feb 15, 2005

Ty Matthan

Heatherondo · Feb 15, 2005

I believe it goes that lucifer was jealous of God, and likened himself to be equal with God.
His sin was pride

Sword-In-Hand · Feb 15, 2005

Heatherondo said:
I believe it goes that lucifer was jealous of God, and likened himself to be equal with God.
His sin was pride

But how did he sin in heaven?

jcright · Feb 15, 2005

In the book of Job we read that that Satan has access to the throne room...

That's circumstantial at best...but, if we assume he is permitted to keep his free will, then he would have to be allowed to sin in heaven if he chooses to do so.

Kentucky_Girl · Feb 15, 2005

I did a little research on the net and these are two websites that I found. I have not had time to look at these in depth as I am currently at work but I thought I would post them so you could look at them and they might lead you in the direction you need to see if you (or someone) else can answer your question.

www.gotquestions.org/Satan-fall.html
www.5-a-day-club.net/messages/2002_01_11.shtml

The first one deals with the fall of Satan and the second deals with sin in Heaven.

Let me know if this helps.

TwinCrier · Feb 15, 2005

By Lucifer do you mean Satan? I ask because many new versions donot have the ward Lucifer in their pages. He is considered a mythological entity different from Satan, the devil.

Gold Dragon · Feb 15, 2005

TwinCrier said:
By Lucifer do you mean Satan? I ask because many new versions donot have the ward Lucifer in their pages.

Correct. The name Lucifer is a Latin name from Jerome's Latin Vulgate which is translated from the Septuagint from the greek word heosphoros which means morning star or bringer of the dawn

The hebrew name that most new translations use helel ben-shachar is better translated in the modern translations as morning star, son of the dawn.

Here is the one verse in the bible where the name Lucifer is used, with the hebrew included if you click through the links.

KJV - Isaiah 14:12

How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning!
how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

NASB - Isaiah 14:12

How you have fallen from heaven, O star of the morning, son of the dawn!
You have been cut down to the earth, You who have weakened the nations!

The identity of this Morning Star or Lucifer is debated as being either representative of Satan or a Babylonian King or both.

seebs · Feb 15, 2005

All our theories about Satan's "fall" come from Paradise Lost, not from the Bible. It's hard to suggest what would have actually happened.

Sword-In-Hand · Feb 15, 2005

Thanks for all the info. Yes, I meant Satan when I wrote Lucifer. I read Matthan's opinion on the subject, and I must say it was very insightful and took an angle that I hadn't heard before. If anyone is interested, I recommend reading it, that is if he doesn't mind.

Matthan · Feb 15, 2005

Sword, thank you very much for the very kind words. And, anyone who wants to read it is more than welcome to do so.

Matthan <J><

How did Lucifer fall from heaven?

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