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How can you justify picking and choosing Bible aspects?

Umaro

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From what I understand now, the Bible is God's word, and God's word is infallible and timeless. Why then can you just pick the aspects that are convinient for you?

Morals are one part. The 10 Commandments are from Exodus and seem important enough to fight to place in public areas.Exodus 35:2 also says however that the punishment for working on the Sabbath is stoning to death. As creul and wrong as it seems, shouldn't God's word still stand true? Death by stone is actually the punishment for alot of things.

And what of divorce? A great many Christians (I know not all) seem to have no problem with it, yet the Bible clearly states otherwise.

Slavery is something the Bible supports in many areas(eg. Exodus 21:7), and the Bible was even used as justification for the South during the Civil War. We know slavery is extremely wrong, so does that mean God's word is incorrect?

The list goes on, such as burning sacrafices (Lev 1:9), contact with women during "that time"(Lev.15:19- 24), and trimming the hair around your temples if you're male (Lev. 19:27)


Basically my question is how can you justify this action? I've heard the responce that those are from the old testiment, and therefor moot to Christians, but then you shouldn't follow the 10 Commandments either, or have a problem with homosexuality, which stems exclusivly from Leviticus 18:22. If you have the ability to separate right from wrong within the Bible, why do you need the Bible for your morals?
 
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FrAnthony

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From what I understand now, the Bible is God's word, and God's word is infallible and timeless. Why then can you just pick the aspects that are convinient for you? ... Basically my question is how can you justify this action?

Many try to do exactly what you say in order to make themselves feel better, but we really shouldn't. Scripture is meant to be taken in whole, not part, and within context.

The general answer to your question, from an Orthodox Christian point of view, is that many misunderstandings stem from slicing and dicing Scripture to fit a person's belief system. When taken in context, with the understanding that Jesus Christ fullfilled the Law (not abolished it), then you'll see that mercy, not the stone, becomes the lifestyle of Christian.

That's much easier said that done though. Given the choice, throwing a stone is much easier. But since our goal is eternal salvation, what good would it do to throw a stone? It may be harder to have mercy, but the reward is greater.

A Priest once told me that the Old Testament gave us the rules to live well and the promise of a Savior, but the New Testament gives us the rest of what we need to have eternal life/salvation. This doesn't mean to ignore the rules of life, but to increase our focus on gaining eternal salvation through Jesus Christ.

What you have most likely experienced or witnessed with people picking and choosing Scripture to justify wrong doings is the result of a person, or many people, failing to live a 100% perfect Christian lifestyle. But, have mercy on us...we're trying. ;)
 
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McWilliams

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All scripture has a purpose and it is our responsibility to study and know it.
2 Timothy 3:16All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

No one can pick out one part and reject others! It is all God's word to us, His truth!

I read a quote this morning that says: If one doesnt value scripture above all else in the world, they hold it in contempt!

God's sacred words to us must be valued, studied, learned and applied to our life to benefit us at all!
 
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rocklife

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From what I understand now, the Bible is God's word, and God's word is infallible and timeless. Why then can you just pick the aspects that are convinient for you?

Morals are one part. The 10 Commandments are from Exodus and seem important enough to fight to place in public areas.Exodus 35:2 also says however that the punishment for working on the Sabbath is stoning to death. As creul and wrong as it seems, shouldn't God's word still stand true? Death by stone is actually the punishment for alot of things.

And what of divorce? A great many Christians (I know not all) seem to have no problem with it, yet the Bible clearly states otherwise.

Slavery is something the Bible supports in many areas(eg. Exodus 21:7), and the Bible was even used as justification for the South during the Civil War. We know slavery is extremely wrong, so does that mean God's word is incorrect?

The list goes on, such as burning sacrafices (Lev 1:9), contact with women during "that time"(Lev.15:19- 24), and trimming the hair around your temples if you're male (Lev. 19:27)


Basically my question is how can you justify this action? I've heard the responce that those are from the old testiment, and therefor moot to Christians, but then you shouldn't follow the 10 Commandments either, or have a problem with homosexuality, which stems exclusivly from Leviticus 18:22. If you have the ability to separate right from wrong within the Bible, why do you need the Bible for your morals?

homosexuality is also condemned in the New Testament, see 1 Corinthians 6:9 (and not just homosexuality, we are ALL sinners). We need the Holy Spirit to guide us about what is going on with the Bible.

with slavery, God isn't really condoning it, He is trying to give people limits to what they can do. People keep abusing and going overboard, God wanted to show sin is bad, and some things should have punishment, but in balance. People can kill others for very trifling things in anger, God is trying to just limit that. And then He shows us with Jesus (and other OT like Him leading the Israelites out of slavery with Moses, and giving a Sabbath to your slaves, freeing them in the 7th year), He shows with Jesus that He really wants to offer everyone Freedom, especially freedom from sin. He freed me from sins.

I urge to look to Christ, not so much to people (including churchgoers). People make mistakes, some even flat out are evil even in church. He can help you understand the bible and what is going on, if you continue studying it prayerfully seeking Truth.
 
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Mling

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What is often called "picking and choosing" is, in reality "intelligent and honest reading."

If the popular Christan culture says that a Bible verse should be interpreted a certain way, but the author clearly meant something different, it is more honest to follow what the message actually meant, rather than to go along with the corrupted version it has become.

When a person is accused of "picking and choosing" it is usually either because they are refusing to go along with a popularly accepted idea (because they do not believe it is actually true), or because they are not taking a particular verse literally.

No language is entirely literal--that's just not how people speak, read or write. To take everything in the Bible "literally" is completely impossible, and to claim to do so is dishonest on several levels. On the first level, nobody actually does it. No matter how much a person claims that they do take every word of the Bible completely literally, nobody does. It would be completely incoherent if it was taken that way.
On the second level, to attempt to do so, and to claim that one does is dishonest because it makes a person appear righteous and reverent of the Bible, while, in actuallity, it often strips the verse of the real meaning and replaces it with some fantasy that the Biblical authors never intended to convey. A person who insists on taking a verse at face value, rather than learning what it actually means prefers an easy fantasy, and the appearance of virtue over real truth.
 
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Merlin

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From what I understand now, the Bible is God's word, and God's word is infallible and timeless. Why then can you just pick the aspects that are convinient for you?

Morals are one part. The 10 Commandments are from Exodus and seem important enough to fight to place in public areas.Exodus 35:2 also says however that the punishment for working on the Sabbath is stoning to death. As creul and wrong as it seems, shouldn't God's word still stand true? Death by stone is actually the punishment for alot of things.

And what of divorce? A great many Christians (I know not all) seem to have no problem with it, yet the Bible clearly states otherwise.

Slavery is something the Bible supports in many areas(eg. Exodus 21:7), and the Bible was even used as justification for the South during the Civil War. We know slavery is extremely wrong, so does that mean God's word is incorrect?

The list goes on, such as burning sacrafices (Lev 1:9), contact with women during "that time"(Lev.15:19- 24), and trimming the hair around your temples if you're male (Lev. 19:27)


Basically my question is how can you justify this action? I've heard the responce that those are from the old testiment, and therefor moot to Christians, but then you shouldn't follow the 10 Commandments either, or have a problem with homosexuality, which stems exclusivly from Leviticus 18:22. If you have the ability to separate right from wrong within the Bible, why do you need the Bible for your morals?

In the early church, discussion of which laws to follow came up
Acts, chapter 15:
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, "The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to obey the law of Moses."
6 The apostles and elders met to consider this question.
7 After much discussion, Peter got up and addressed them: "Brothers, you know that some time ago God made a choice among you that the Gentiles might hear from my lips the message of the gospel and believe.
8 God, who knows the heart, showed that he accepted them by giving the Holy Spirit to them, just as he did to us.
9 He made no distinction between us and them, for he purified their hearts by faith.
10 Now then, why do you try to test God by putting on the necks of the disciples a yoke that neither we nor our fathers have been able to bear?
11 No!
We believe it is through the grace of our Lord Jesus that we are saved, just as they are."
The consensus was:
Acts 15:28 It seemed good to the Holy Spirit and to us not to burden you with anything beyond the following requirements:
Acts 15:29 You are to abstain from food sacrificed to idols, from blood, from the meat of strangled animals and from sexual immorality. You will do well to avoid these things. Farewell.
 
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calidog

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Why get bogged down in such details of the Old Testament?

If you believe the OT was written before the NT then you'd believe prophecy was fullfilled in Jesus Christ.

The theme of the OT is we cannot keep the Law.

The theme of the NT is " As the snake was lifted up by Moses in the waste land, even so it is necessary for the Son of man to be lifted up:
So that whoever has faith may have in him eternal life.
For God had such love for the world that he gave his only Son, so that whoever has faith in him may not come to destruction but have eternal life.
God did not send his Son into the world to be judge of the world; he sent him so that the world might have salvation through him.
The man who has faith in him does not come up to be judged; but he who has no faith in him has been judged even now, because he has no faith in the name of the only Son of God.
 
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rocklife

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What is often called "picking and choosing" is, in reality "intelligent and honest reading."

If the popular Christan culture says that a Bible verse should be interpreted a certain way, but the author clearly meant something different, it is more honest to follow what the message actually meant, rather than to go along with the corrupted version it has become.

When a person is accused of "picking and choosing" it is usually either because they are refusing to go along with a popularly accepted idea (because they do not believe it is actually true), or because they are not taking a particular verse literally.

No language is entirely literal--that's just not how people speak, read or write. To take everything in the Bible "literally" is completely impossible, and to claim to do so is dishonest on several levels. On the first level, nobody actually does it. No matter how much a person claims that they do take every word of the Bible completely literally, nobody does. It would be completely incoherent if it was taken that way.
On the second level, to attempt to do so, and to claim that one does is dishonest because it makes a person appear righteous and reverent of the Bible, while, in actuallity, it often strips the verse of the real meaning and replaces it with some fantasy that the Biblical authors never intended to convey. A person who insists on taking a verse at face value, rather than learning what it actually means prefers an easy fantasy, and the appearance of virtue over real truth.

I agree with this reply also. I would like to add on, that Jesus shows us not all His Scriptures are to be taken literally anyway. He tells us something very drastic in order to make a point. One of those Scriptures that has a spiritual meaning and not meant to be literal is when Jesus is saying "if your eye causes you to sin, poke it out and cast it from you, if your hand causes you to sin, cut it off." Jesus did not mean to mutilate your body, no sane person in good conscience before God does this. Jesus means sin is so bad, do everything you can to stop sinning. Sin brings death, get away from sin.

thankfully Jesus has the power to get us away from sin, if we seek salvation prayerfully, humbly, persistently truthfully
 
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prophecystudent

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In reality, there is no justification for picking and choosing scripture to support what we want to do.

People often do things that are incorrect or improper in their drive to find justificatio for what they are doing (or want to do).

Nothing Christ said eliminated the 10 commandments nor many of the some 600 rules and regulations given by God the Israel in the OT days. All the restrictions placed on food to be eaten (or not eaten) were removed, not one of the rules regarding moral and ethical behavior was removed or declared to be void or invalid.

Homosexuality was, and still is, a sin. Immoral sexual behavior is still a sin. If you think not, read what the bible says about divorce. (remember there is only one biblical basis for divorce, and that is fornication).

Do Christians get divorced? Certainly. Does that change what the bible says about it? No!.

It simply means that the Christian getting a divorce is not following scripture. Does that make them a bad person? No, it simply means that they chose to get a divorce (and unless it was because the other spouse committed fornication) it was contrary to scripture.

You can pick and choose subjects out of the bible as evidence that those who do not follow them are "picking and choosing" scripture. The fact that human beings make mistakes, commit sins, etc does not mean that we, as Christians, pick and choose scripture. It simply means that we are sinners.

Looking for scripture to take out of context in support of our actions might be called "picking and choosing" if those scripture passages are taken out of context.

Otherwise, it is a simple matter of someone committing a sin, or a violation of biblical doctrine.

Fred
 
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Adammi

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From what I understand now, the Bible is God's word, and God's word is infallible and timeless. Why then can you just pick the aspects that are convinient for you?

Morals are one part. The 10 Commandments are from Exodus and seem important enough to fight to place in public areas.Exodus 35:2 also says however that the punishment for working on the Sabbath is stoning to death. As creul and wrong as it seems, shouldn't God's word still stand true? Death by stone is actually the punishment for alot of things.

And what of divorce? A great many Christians (I know not all) seem to have no problem with it, yet the Bible clearly states otherwise.

Slavery is something the Bible supports in many areas(eg. Exodus 21:7), and the Bible was even used as justification for the South during the Civil War. We know slavery is extremely wrong, so does that mean God's word is incorrect?

The list goes on, such as burning sacrafices (Lev 1:9), contact with women during "that time"(Lev.15:19- 24), and trimming the hair around your temples if you're male (Lev. 19:27)


Basically my question is how can you justify this action? I've heard the responce that those are from the old testiment, and therefor moot to Christians, but then you shouldn't follow the 10 Commandments either, or have a problem with homosexuality, which stems exclusivly from Leviticus 18:22. If you have the ability to separate right from wrong within the Bible, why do you need the Bible for your morals?
You will get various answers from various Christians, but here's is my take.
You said that the Bible is "timeless". Depending on what is meant by "timeless" I may disagree. I do not believe that what the Bible meant to its original audience is the same thing that it means to us.
The 10 Commandment, levitical commands, etc. were to be obeyed by the Jews at the time of their revelation, but to us who live after the time of Christ, we are not bound to obey them, but only to learn about them.
 
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Emmy

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Dear Umaro, you had some very good replies to your question, but how to justify to pick and choose, is not possible. Jesu Himself told the adultress, " I won`t condemn you, but go and SIN NO MORE." We are told to love God first, and love each other, as we love ourselves. Would we do to ourselves, what we are doing again and again to others? God is our ONLY Judge, Umaro, and He knows our hearts, our every thought, and He will judge us, and thanks to our Saviour Jesus Christus, we have the chance to ask for forgiveness, and help from Him too, to overcome our sinful nature. I say this humbly and kindly, and send greetings. Emmy, sister in Christ.
 
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EmbracingHim

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From what I understand now, the Bible is God's word, and God's word is infallible and timeless. Why then can you just pick the aspects that are convinient for you?

Morals are one part. The 10 Commandments are from Exodus and seem important enough to fight to place in public areas.Exodus 35:2 also says however that the punishment for working on the Sabbath is stoning to death. As creul and wrong as it seems, shouldn't God's word still stand true? Death by stone is actually the punishment for alot of things.

And what of divorce? A great many Christians (I know not all) seem to have no problem with it, yet the Bible clearly states otherwise.

Slavery is something the Bible supports in many areas(eg. Exodus 21:7), and the Bible was even used as justification for the South during the Civil War. We know slavery is extremely wrong, so does that mean God's word is incorrect?

The list goes on, such as burning sacrafices (Lev 1:9), contact with women during "that time"(Lev.15:19- 24), and trimming the hair around your temples if you're male (Lev. 19:27)


Basically my question is how can you justify this action? I've heard the responce that those are from the old testiment, and therefor moot to Christians, but then you shouldn't follow the 10 Commandments either, or have a problem with homosexuality, which stems exclusivly from Leviticus 18:22. If you have the ability to separate right from wrong within the Bible, why do you need the Bible for your morals?

The scriptures state that ... there will be those that desire a 'tickling' of 'their' own ears rather than the truth.

In this we find many destortions of 'interpretation' of scriptures at times. It is quite sad, but we rise above this by carefully considering 'all' scriptures and relaying upon our 'One' Rabbi -- that is Christ in our fellowship and place in the Body of Christ.

Upon the receipt of the new covenant...the old law was covered by the new. The new covenant completes the old. The commandments of old are all covered by this simple truth written in our hearts through Christ...that we love God first with all of our hearts and that we love one another. The 10 commandments are covered in this and applicable to both Jew and gentile.

Christ stated there is only 'One' that is good. There is no justification for sin...it is by God's Grace that we exist and we inherit His Kingdom.

Those who tickle their ears and pick and choose in search for justifications, etc....will bow to Christ in the end and face judgement as we all will.

That is why we must all forgive one another and judge only with righteousness. We have to look at the own obstruction in our own eyes when looking at others and be thankful and prayful for others and that we ourselves receive grace in all of our own imperfection.

May you be blessed for seeing perfection and may you strife for grace in all we see. You are not alone. :hug:
 
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jer3119

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From what I understand now, the Bible is God's word, and God's word is infallible and timeless. Why then can you just pick the aspects that are convinient for you?

Morals are one part. The 10 Commandments are from Exodus and seem important enough to fight to place in public areas.Exodus 35:2 also says however that the punishment for working on the Sabbath is stoning to death. As creul and wrong as it seems, shouldn't God's word still stand true? Death by stone is actually the punishment for alot of things.

And what of divorce? A great many Christians (I know not all) seem to have no problem with it, yet the Bible clearly states otherwise.

Slavery is something the Bible supports in many areas(eg. Exodus 21:7), and the Bible was even used as justification for the South during the Civil War. We know slavery is extremely wrong, so does that mean God's word is incorrect?

The list goes on, such as burning sacrafices (Lev 1:9), contact with women during "that time"(Lev.15:19- 24), and trimming the hair around your temples if you're male (Lev. 19:27)


Basically my question is how can you justify this action? I've heard the responce that those are from the old testiment, and therefor moot to Christians, but then you shouldn't follow the 10 Commandments either, or have a problem with homosexuality, which stems exclusivly from Leviticus 18:22. If you have the ability to separate right from wrong within the Bible, why do you need the Bible for your morals?
You ask very good and important questions and McWilliams has given you the most basic and broad response which will answer all your questions if you come to scripture humbly, to be corrected, and to be taught and with an heart set to obey, rather than to argue.

I would address specifically just one aspect of your question and would do so only briefly as it can be researched in depth elsewhere if you are interested, and the search is quite worth the time as the Truth always is. That issue is the Bible's position on slavery, which is much misunderstood. First, you are quite correct in noticing that the Bible was used to justify slavery during the Civil War in this country and is still used by many to do so. But the truth is that the Bible does no such thing. Rather, if you will read the OT carefully on this subject you will find that slavery, which is owning another person, as own would own property, is neither condoned nor taught. Rather, what is taught there are the rules of immigration into the Jewish State, much like the rules of immigration into the USA today, along with the rules for compensated servitude, which is not the same in any respect, as slavery.

In slavery persons, as for example the Africans brought to this country against their will to support the covetous economic plantation system, primarily in the cultivation of cotton and tobacco, are held against their will and not compensated for their work properly, nor are they treated Biblically in other ways which respect to their person hood before God, for example with respect to freedom of movement, speech, property rights, religion and so on.

In the Jewish Theocratic state, those in servitude, sold their labor for a just compensation for their time and service and were treated in every way as God's creatures, with freedom as an option if they desired to have it by their fair labor, along with rights of citizenship in the Jewish state after a period of probation and conversion to the Jewish faith. A careful reading of the applicable scripture clearly spells this out. In todays world, particularly in this country, people contract out their time according to the rules of established law, and the trend is to, limit those laws and "let market forces" make all decisons as to what is fair and what is not, and some claim loudly that this is the Biblical pattern, but clearly it is not. Many other such parellels and errors could be drawn and observed, did time permit.

If you desire to read further on it I suggest you read George Cheevers book on the subject, which was preached in a Presbyterian Church in NY City prior to the Civil war. Dr. Cheever, one of the most godly of men in the middle of the last century was one of those who spoke most clearly against the evil of Slavery and the Covetousness that inspired it in this Country at it's founding and in the lead up to the Civil War.

Significantly, Dr. Cheever is one of the most clear and forceful teachers also on the true value and meaning of the timeless Classic, "The Pilgrims Progress" by John Bunyan, a book blessed by God in a way as no other in the English language in terms of copies sold and languages of translation, save the Bible itself. Dr Cheever wrote a book called "lectures on the Pilgrims Progress which illucidates many of the mysteries found in that classic teaching and also teaches much about it's author, the great saint John Bunyan. The vast majority of today's men have lost what Dr. Cheever had in many respects with regard to the wisdom and genius given to God's servant John Bunyan and shared through him with millions. It is my wish and prayer that these things be rediscovered so that Christ and His Spirit and His Father might be glorified therein.

If you desire more info on Dr. Cheever and his writings on P. Progress or the true nature of the Bible's teaching on slavery and covetousness and more importantly, the role of government in fostering that covetousness and how God chastises such a nation, as for example He did in the US with the great calamity of the Civil War, and which He is now doing with the Irag War (in both cases with those in Government claiming God's will in their cause with the support of not a few in the pulpit, while others, with greater light and against the tide of the flow of Mammons ill begotten and poisonous waters speak the truth to all who will hear it, or who "will forebare") I will find the links and provide them.

much Christian love to you and thank you for asking these good questions,
may the Lord, the Spirit, guide you in your search for the Truth, whom to know is "life eternal".
jer3119
 
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Sketcher

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One important thing that you are missing (since you are mostly correct) it that you need to interpret Scripture with Scripture. When Jesus came and did what He did, He shook up some things. The Old Covenant passed away, and the New Covenant was ushered in. The apostles were guided by the Holy Spirit to declare what was completed, what was no longer required, and what was only not required for Gentile converts. To address your issues point by point:

The Sabbath - completed by Christ. See Colossians 2:13-17.

Stoning - I don't really have a problem with this method of execution.

Divorce - I agree that is very sad and very wrong. I actually side with Jesus on this matter, not liberal interpretations.

Slavery - Slaves were protected in the Bible, but the protections were generally ignored here in America. American slavery was worse than what the Bible condones. The early church did not seek its abolition, but it did teach that slave and master alike have equal value before God, and this was a warning to masters. See Ephesians 6:9.

The various other things you mentioned were collectively addressed in the Council of Jerusalem as recorded in Acts 15. Sexual morals were among those preserved, thus homosexuality is still sinful. It is also condemned in other places in the New Testament.
 
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Umaro

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" Stoning - I don't really have a problem with this method of execution."


The problem isn't the method of death, the problem is that the punishment is death for crimes such as working on the sabbath and cursing at your parents. Almost everyone in America should be killed by this law.
 
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calidog

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Slavery - Slaves were protected in the Bible, but the protections were generally ignored here in America. American slavery was worse than what the Bible condones. The early church did not seek its abolition, but it did teach that slave and master alike have equal value before God, and this was a warning to masters. See Ephesians 6:9.

Slavery was worldwide.

check out the ancient history concerning the cruelty in slavery, especially the medo-persians, babalonians, and assyrians
 
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Sketcher

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" Stoning - I don't really have a problem with this method of execution."


The problem isn't the method of death, the problem is that the punishment is death for crimes such as working on the sabbath and cursing at your parents. Almost everyone in America should be killed by this law.
Yes, but it is the government that has the authority to execute people, not the ordinary person. A political push for something like that wouldn't be very productive. Besides, Christians and Jews alike have lived under governments that did not have such laws for hundreds of years and the faiths have survived. Also, the emphasis of the New Testament is evangelism, not execution. Jesus commanded us to convert sinners, and you can't convert the dead. Therefore, Christians are going to be a lot more concerned with winning that delinquent son to Christ than they are with stoning him to death. When we think of a son of extreme delinquence (which is what the command was reserved for) we think of the parable of the lost son, where Jesus tells of a father that forgives his son for unspeakable disobedience and disrespect.
 
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Sketcher

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Slavery was worldwide.

check out the ancient history concerning the cruelty in slavery, especially the medo-persians, babalonians, and assyrians

I know slavery was worldwide. But I'm not talking about Medo-Persians, Babylonians, and Assyrians. I'm talking about Israelites and Christians living in the Roman Empire. Christians especially had a higher standard for treatment of slaves than their pagan neighbors, and Scripture's protection of the of slaves is clear.
 
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rocklife

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" The problem isn't the method of death, the problem is that the punishment is death for crimes such as working on the sabbath and cursing at your parents. Almost everyone in America should be killed by this law.

it has been repeated now several times, we are not under the Old way. The Old Testament laws teach us how bad and wrong sin is, and there is no way we can be perfect without help from God. God helps us with Jesus, and Jesus gives us a better way than keeping laws we can't keep. He also shows us God is Spirit, and His laws are spirit, and man often misinterprets God wrong to make Him just be a bunch of Rules, which He is not.

reminder, this isn't a discussion/debate forum
 
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