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How can you believe in God?

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?believe?

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I have always wondered how someone can believe in God. Lets not look at the evidence but look at the inconsitencies?

For example, Jesus. If Jesus is the only way to heaven then after he died how were the people in say Madagscar saved? How about the people who died 10 seconds after Jesus who never heard the word? Are they in hell?

Why would God let children be born retarded? If mans purpose here on earth is to tend to his business then how can these people be of use?

Why does God allow his followers to be punished? How come they arent perfect?
If they keep sinning then whats the point? Why not just take them home or give some kind of reward that others can see? Believers are all sinners still so they only hurt the message by letting others see them sin.

Where did the other people Cain went to live with come from? So he just created the Jewish people first and the others were not worth mentioning?

Why do I need to go to church to be a good Christian? So the people who cant get to church because of say a medical condition are sinning because they are watching it on tv?

How come Christians (Baptists) frown on drinking? Jesus drank wine.
How about dancing? Jesus danced too.
What about so called foul language? who says that certain words are curse words? The bible doesnt say <staff edit> Its mans conotations on it that make it that way.

I just dont get you guys sometimes.
 
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JohnDeereFan

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I have always wondered how someone can believe in God. Lets not look at the evidence but look at the inconsitencies?

For example, Jesus. If Jesus is the only way to heaven then after he died how were the people in say Madagscar saved? How about the people who died 10 seconds after Jesus who never heard the word? Are they in hell?

First of all, let me say that none of the things you mention are actually "inconsistencies". In fact, whether you realize it or not, nearly each one of the things you've mentioned has occured pretty much exactly as the Bible describes it.

The first question, how can people be saved who have never heard the Gospel is addressed in Paul's letter to the Romans.

The book of Romans tells us that God has taken into account the fact that not everyone will have an opportunity to hear the Gospel and has made a way for them to have an opportunity to be saved, too.

It tells us that God has given every man two witnesses: the external witness of nature, so that man can know that there is a Creator, and the internal witness of the conscience, so that man can know that he has broken the Creator's laws.

As a man who has never heard the Gospel responds to his conscience and attempts to honor it, the Bible says that God will give him further revelation of His existence and of the Gospel. So the man may still be saved, even though he has never heard the Gospel.

Why would God let children be born retarded? If mans purpose here on earth is to tend to his business then how can these people be of use?
Death, illness, and mental retardation are consequences of being born in a fallen world. The Bible, again, in the book of Romans, tells us that sin and death entered the world as a result of Adam's sin and, because of Adam's sin, the world is under a curse.

Everyone has different talents and abilities. While a retarded person may not have the same intellectual capacity as a non-retarded person, there is no doubt that they are still just as capable of loving God and doing His will as best as they can.

We have a young man in our church who is mentally retarded and he goes with our evangelism team when we go witnessing.

He cannot comprehend anything but the simplest doctrines, but he understands the words to the old hymn, "One Day", which says "Living [Christ] loved me/Dying [Christ] saved me/Buried, [Christ] carried my sins far away/Rising [Christ] justified freely and forever/One day He's returning, Oh glorious day".

Simply by being able to sing this chorus, he is a powerful witness to the glory of God.

Why does God allow his followers to be punished? How come they arent perfect?
I don't believe God allows Christians to be punished. In fact, the Bible tells us that God punished Christ on the cross so that we would not be punished. We are not perfect because we're fallen and sinful and it is our imperfection that makes Christ's sacrifice on our behalf all the more extraordinary.

After all, Romans 5:6-21 says:

Romans 5:6-21 said:
6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die. 8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us. 9 Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved from wrath through him. 10 For if, when we were enemies, we were reconciled to God by the death of his Son, much more, being reconciled, we shall be saved by his life. 11 And not only so, but we also joy in God through our Lord Jesus Christ, by whom we have now received the atonement. 12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that F18 all have sinned: 13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. 14 Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. 15 But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many. 16 And not as it was by one that sinned, so is the gift: for the judgment was by one to condemnation, but the free gift is of many offences unto justification. 17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.) 18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life. 19 For as by one man's disobedience many were made sinners, so by the obedience of one shall many be made righteous. 20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound: 21 That as sin hath reigned unto death, even so might grace reign through righteousness unto eternal life by Jesus Christ our Lord.

Believers are all sinners still so they only hurt the message by letting others see them sin.
I disagree. The Bible makes a disctinction between a Christian who sins, but repents for his sin, and a non-Christian who sins and revels in his sin.

I believe that when the world sees the difference, God is glorified.

Where did the other people Cain went to live with come from?
You have to remember that, at this time, people lived for many hundreds of years so by the time Cain killed Able and was forced to flee, there were many generations living. So it's entirely possible that there could have been hundreds or even thousands of people on the Earth at that point.

So he just created the Jewish people first and the others were not worth mentioning?
Actually, at that time, the nation of Israel hadn't been established yet, so there were no Jews.

Why do I need to go to church to be a good Christian?
For a couple of reasons. We're commanded to gather for the corporate preaching and teaching of the word of God, we're commanded to gather for corporate worship, we're commanded to gather in order to use our gifts to edify the church and to allow others to edify us, we're commanded to gather for accountability and discipline, and we're commanded to gather for evangelism.

You cannot fulfil those things outside of church.

So the people who cant get to church because of say a medical condition are sinning because they are watching it on tv?
No.

How come Christians (Baptists) frown on drinking? Jesus drank wine.
The problem is not with drinking, but with drunkenness.

How about dancing? Jesus danced too.
Can't help you with that one. I don't know any Baptists who are against dancing.

What about so called foul language? who says that certain words are curse words? The bible doesnt say <staff edit>. Its mans conotations on it that make it that way.
You're absolutely right. The Bible tells us to avoid "coarse language", but doesn't give a list of words that are considered "coarse" because how words are perceived is constantly changing.

The idea isn't so much that certain words are good or bad, but that we are representatives of Christ and our coarse language can make Him appear to be less than the Holy and Righteous God that He is.
 
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?believe?

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First of all, let me say that none of the things you mention are actually "inconsistencies". In fact, whether you realize it or not, nearly each one of the things you've mentioned has occured pretty much exactly as the Bible describes it.

Yeah wrong choice of words. Sorry

The first question, how can people be saved who have never heard the Gospel is addressed in Paul's letter to the Romans.

The book of Romans tells us that God has taken into account the fact that not everyone will have an opportunity to hear the Gospel and has made a way for them to have an opportunity to be saved, too.

It tells us that God has given every man two witnesses: the external witness of nature, so that man can know that there is a Creator, and the internal witness of the conscience, so that man can know that he has broken the Creator's laws.

As a man who has never heard the Gospel responds to his conscience and attempts to honor it, the Bible says that God will give him further revelation of His existence and of the Gospel. So the man may still be saved, even though he has never heard the Gospel.
So Jesus isnt the only way to Heaven then? So if I heard the word and didnt believe but lived as best I could then I get to Heaven? How about the Jews? Why do some people get a pass when I have to suffer persecution because of my belief?
Can you give me a round about scripture area to look. I will look for myself I dont expect you to hand feed me.


Death, illness, and mental retardation are consequences of being born in a fallen world. The Bible, again, in the book of Romans, tells us that sin and death entered the world as a result of Adam's sin and, because of Adam's sin, the world is under a curse.

Everyone has different talents and abilities. While a retarded person may not have the same intellectual capacity as a non-retarded person, there is no doubt that they are still just as capable of loving God and doing His will as best as they can.

We have a young man in our church who is mentally retarded and he goes with our evangelism team when we go witnessing.

He cannot comprehend anything but the simplest doctrines, but he understands the words to the old hymn, "One Day", which says "Living [Christ] loved me/Dying [Christ] saved me/Buried, [Christ] carried my sins far away/Rising [Christ] justified freely and forever/One day He's returning, Oh glorious day".

Simply by being able to sing this chorus, he is a powerful witness to the glory of God.
What about the window lickers? The serious handicapped? What purpose does that serve?
Why does one born without sin need be punished for a world they have never seen?


I don't believe God allows Christians to be punished. In fact, the Bible tells us that God punished Christ on the cross so that we would not be punished. We are not perfect because we're fallen and sinful and it is our imperfection that makes Christ's sacrifice on our behalf all the more extraordinary.
Why are Christians persecuted? Why doesnt God give them all the funds they need to survive and even to fully spread the word?




I disagree. The Bible makes a disctinction between a Christian who sins, but repents for his sin, and a non-Christian who sins and revels in his sin.

I believe that when the world sees the difference, God is glorified.
So what about backsliders? Is it once saved always saved?


You have to remember that, at this time, people lived for many hundreds of years so by the time Cain killed Able and was forced to flee, there were many generations living. So it's entirely possible that there could have been hundreds or even thousands of people on the Earth at that point.
Where is the proof of that? Nowhere in recorded verifiable history is the proof that someone lived hundreds of years. It is simply a way to make things "fit"


Actually, at that time, the nation of Israel hadn't been established yet, so there were no Jews.
Semantics. From their very inception they were the chosen people of God. Those chosen were the Jews. How did they get to heaven?


For a couple of reasons. We're commanded to gather for the corporate preaching and teaching of the word of God, we're commanded to gather for corporate worship, we're commanded to gather in order to use our gifts to edify the church and to allow others to edify us, we're commanded to gather for accountability and discipline, and we're commanded to gather for evangelism.

You cannot fulfil those things outside of church.
So the people who cant make it to church are doomed? If you take your above statement and match it with the response below the dont jive. Either we are commanded or we arent right?


See above.


The problem is not with drinking, but with drunkenness.
Is there a biblical definition of drunkeness? Just curious.

Can't help you with that one. I don't know any Baptists who are against dancing.
The Southern Baptist Convention is. Kind of a moot point anyway.


You're absolutely right. The Bible tells us to avoid "coarse language", but doesn't give a list of words that are considered "coarse" because how words are perceived is constantly changing.

The idea isn't so much that certain words are good or bad, but that we are representatives of Christ and our coarse language can make Him appear to be less than the Holy and Righteous God that He is.
But how is one to know? If I say "Sugar" instead <staff edit> whats the difference? Its the conotation right?

Im not busting your chops BTW. I sincerely appreciate your dialogue here and it has actually helped me find a starting place.
 
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JohnDeereFan

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So Jesus isnt the only way to Heaven then?

Yes, Jesus is the only available avenue of salvation. However, God, in His great mercy has made a different way for those who have never heard the Gospel to appropriate that salvation.

So if I heard the word and didnt believe but lived as best I could then I get to Heaven?

No, you would go to Hell. Even living the best and most moral life you can won't negate your sins.

How about the Jews?

What about them?

Can you give me a round about scripture area to look. I will look for myself I dont expect you to hand feed me.

Romans 1-2.

Why does one born without sin need be punished for a world they have never seen?

Jesus Christ is the only person who was ever born without sin.

Why are Christians persecuted?

Because they represent Christ and sinners hate Christ. See John 3.

So what about backsliders? Is it once saved always saved?

No such thing as "backsliders". If someone is saved, they cannot lose their salvation.

Where is the proof of that? Nowhere in recorded verifiable history is the proof that someone lived hundreds of years. It is simply a way to make things "fit"

Then I guess nothing I say will matter.

Semantics. From their very inception they were the chosen people of God.

Not Biblical. They were not God's chosen people until God made His covenant with Abraham.

So the people who cant make it to church are doomed?

Not that I know of.

If you take your above statement and match it with the response below the dont jive. Either we are commanded or we arent right?

Yes, we are commanded to, but there is a difference between somebody who is capable of keeping a command and chooses not to and a person who desires to keep God's commands but is unable to for reasons beyond their control.

The Southern Baptist Convention is. Kind of a moot point anyway.

That's interesting because I'm a pastor in a Southern Baptist church and I've never heard this. Do you have a source for this? The BF&M, perhaps?
 
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Epiphoskei

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Yes, Jesus is the only available avenue of salvation. However, God, in His great mercy has made a different way for those who have never heard the Gospel to appropriate that salvation.

Let's just be clear, this is not a widely accepted view.
 
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JohnDeereFan

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Let's just be clear, this is not a widely accepted view.

Really? I've only ever heard one or two people say otherwise. Everybody I've ever heard agrees with this.

More importantly, I believe this is entirely Biblical.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that anyone gets a free pass or that anyone can be saved apart from repentance and faith in Christ's vicarious atonement.

The Bible is clear that all people are accountable to God whether they have &#8220;heard about Him&#8221; or not but it also tells us that God has clearly revealed Himself in nature (Romans 1:20) and in the hearts of people (Ecclesiastes 3:11).

Scriptures such as Psalm 19:1-4 and Romans 1:20 clearly state that certain things about God can be understood from nature and the universe around us.

Cornelius is a good example of someone who did not know the Gospel, but who responded to the two witnesses Romans tells us about and God responded. Cornelius is described as &#8220;devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly&#8221; (Acts 10:2). Did God save Cornelius because of his devotion to God based on the limited knowledge he had of God? No. God sent an angel to Cornelius with instructions for Cornelius to contact the Apostle Peter and have him come to Cornelius&#8217; home. Cornelius obeyed, and Peter came and presented the Gospel to Cornelius and his family. Cornelius and his family believed and were therefore saved (Acts 10:44-48). Acts chapter 10 is a clear example of how we are not saved by believing certain truths about God, or by obeying God in certain respects. The only way of salvation is the Gospel of Jesus Christ (John 14:6; Acts 4:12).

Besides, if what you're saying is true, then how are Old Testament Jews saved?
 
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Epiphoskei

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The Old Testament Jews were saved because they recieved Christ through special revelation, if only by type. Abraham recieved Christ after a type when he believed that God was able to raise Isaac from the dead.

General revelation, the only kind of revelation posessed by those who do not have the Bible, does not lead to the salvation of anyone. It is necesarry to believe to be saved, and they cannot believe without a preacher. Romans 10.
 
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arunma

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Hi John, I would like to make a theological note. Epiphoskei is correct to say that people who never hear about Jesus will not be saved in their ignorance. Old Testament Jews, and likely Cornelius as well, were saved because they were given revelation from God. This revelation was not complete, but it was special revelation from God via the prophets (in Cornelius' case, this probably came through Scripture). As it says,
So faith comes from hearing, and hearing through the word of Christ. (Romans 10:17)
And,
The Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed." (Galatians 3:8)
The Gospel was preached before Christ's birth, though not in complete form. Today the Gospel is the only way people can be saved, and it has always been the only way people could be saved since time immemorial. Often times the example is given of the proverbial "pigmy in the middle of Africa." This person notices that everything in creation has an order to it, that the rain and the wind are gifts, and that the sun seems to govern creation. Thus he worships the sun with a spirit of thanksgiving. Many people say that this worship can save him. And that is a strange conclusion indeed, because God would call sun-worship idolatry. The point is this: general revelation only gives us enough information for us to stand condemned. As it says,
For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. (Romans 1:20)
Belief in God never saved anyone. Modern Jews and Muslims believe in God too, and they are going to hell. The only way people can be saved is if God grants us faith in his Christ.

And here's the part where I hope that ?believe? is reading too...

Why do people ask about the pigmy in Africa scenario? Jesus often questioned the underlying presuppositions of people who asked him questions, so perhaps we should do the same. After all, the Bible is very clear that anyone who hears the Gospel and rejects it will go to hell (see John 15:22). So if any unbeliever has enough knowledge of the true God to even ask what happens to ignorant unbelievers, then for him the question is moot, because he clearly knows about Jesus, and will surely perish in hell without the Gospel. I think the reason is because people who ask this question are looking for a specific answer. They want to hear that God will save ignorant unbelievers. Then, with a few mental gymnastics, they can convince themselves that they haven't heard sufficiently about the Gospel, and that God won't send them to hell for their lack of faith in Christ. The Catholic Church, for example capitalizes on this line of reasoning. Catholicism has a doctrine called "invincible ignorance." Invincible ignorance is the belief that a person who has never heard of Jesus can still be saved if he responds to general revelation. I know of many Catholics who believe that no person in the right mind who heard an accurate portrayal of the Gospel would ever reject it. They say, then, that unbelievers in places with Christian influence are in fact "invincibly ignorant." They summarily conclude that with the exception of Hitler, no one is in hell.

Oh what a dangerous line of reasoning this is! What an easy path to liberalism. What denial of Scripture. What a broad way to hell. No, let us never say that there is a way to salvation besides faith in Christ. And let us never refer to faith in false idols as faith in Christ. Faith by itself is not virtuous. In fact, faith in false gods is sinful. It is faith in Jesus Christ that God credits to us as righteousness. If you don't repent of your sins and believe in Jesus, you go to hell forever. Worshiping the sun and calling it Jesus is merely a change of label, and is not salvific. I think this is a most important point, because it is at the heart of the Gospel. If we say that non-Christians have even the slightest possibility of salvation, we deny Scripture, give unbelievers false hope, and empty the Gospel of its power.

Anyway, I hope that everyone here will consider this issue carefully and with respect to the Bible. John, I think you have been doing an excellent job of answering ?believe?'s questions, and I hope that you will continue to do so.
 
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Phileoeklogos

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Really? I've only ever heard one or two people say otherwise. Everybody I've ever heard agrees with this.

More importantly, I believe this is entirely Biblical.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm not saying that anyone gets a free pass or that anyone can be saved apart from repentance and faith in Christ's vicarious atonement.

The Bible is clear that all people are accountable to God whether they have &#8220;heard about Him&#8221; or not but it also tells us that God has clearly revealed Himself in nature (Romans 1:20) and in the hearts of people (Ecclesiastes 3:11).

Scriptures such as Psalm 19:1-4 and Romans 1:20 clearly state that certain things about God can be understood from nature and the universe around us.

Cornelius is a good example of someone who did not know the Gospel, but who responded to the two witnesses Romans tells us about and God responded. Cornelius is described as &#8220;devout and God-fearing; he gave generously to those in need and prayed to God regularly&#8221; (Acts 10:2). Did God save Cornelius because of his devotion to God based on the limited knowledge he had of God? No. God sent an angel to Cornelius with instructions for Cornelius to contact the Apostle Peter and have him come to Cornelius&#8217; home. Cornelius obeyed, and Peter came and presented the Gospel to Cornelius and his family. Cornelius and his family believed and were therefore saved (Acts 10:44-48). Acts chapter 10 is a clear example of how we are not saved by believing certain truths about God, or by obeying God in certain respects. The only way of salvation is the Gospel of Jesus Christ (John 14:6; Acts 4:12).

Besides, if what you're saying is true, then how are Old Testament Jews saved?



You brought up a few quite a few points that I'd like to respond to,

Yes there is natural revealation, and there is the law written on the heart, but this is not salvific, people have a tendency to try to project their own ideas of fairness on to God, and come up with a way to include the unevangelized, before and after the Cross, in some path to salvation outside of Christ, but, they haven't let Paul make his whole arguement in Romans concerning the Gentiles,

Rom 2:12 For all who have sinned without the law will also perish without the law, and all who have sinned under the law will be judged by the law.

Those without the law have violated their own conscious, doing what they knew to be wrong, lying, murder, etc.. and disregarded the natural revealation of God by idolatry, false gods, ancestor worship, spirits etc..

Paul concludes his argument on the guilt of Gentile and Jew with,

Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,


Those who received no special revealation will be judged by what they did have, and what they did, and be found short of His Glory.




Cornelius, was a Gentile, but he was not a man who had no special revelation, he was a "God fearer", he was a Roman stationed in a land that had a Bible, had worship in the synagogues, had the feasts, the Temple and the people of God, he may not have been a proselyte proper but he may have even been attending synagogue services, (Acts 13) certainly he had a level of exposure to the things of God that the Gentiles of Europe or anywhere else at the time did not, and this was only due to the Grace of God , the natural man never discovers God, he only supresses what knowledge of God he has, God reveals Himself to men and that is an act of Grace.

How were the O.T. people saved? They looked forward to the Messiah in faith, knowing that God was sending Him, even though they perished waiting for the promise, the first Messianic prophecy is Gen 3:15, and those promises fill the OT. We look back to the Cross in faith, now knowing the Messiah by name and that the promise of God has come, and that salvation has always been by Grace thru Faith and no other ways,means or works.
 
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mlqurgw

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I wonder why the Spirit wouldn't let Paul go into Asia in Acts 16? didn't they need the Gospel as much as anyone? Could it be because there were no elect there at the time? Hm. There is no salvation for any apart from faith in Christ alone. All those whom Christ has saved will hear the Gospel and believe because the Spirit sends the word of grace to them by the mouth of a preacher.
 
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JohnDeereFan

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How were the O.T. people saved? They looked forward to the Messiah in faith, knowing that God was sending Him, even though they perished waiting for the promise, the first Messianic prophecy is Gen 3:15, and those promises fill the OT. We look back to the Cross in faith, now knowing the Messiah by name and that the promise of God has come, and that salvation has always been by Grace thru Faith and no other ways,means or works.

And yet, when I say the very same thing, you say that I'm wrong.
 
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JohnDeereFan

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Oh what a dangerous line of reasoning this is! What an easy path to liberalism. What denial of Scripture.

I really do resent being told that I deny scripture, especially when I have tried so hard to base my answers and arguments, including this one on scripture.

What a broad way to hell. No, let us never say that there is a way to salvation besides faith in Christ.

And I said this...when, exactly?

Worshiping the sun and calling it Jesus is merely a change of label, and is not salvific.

Not even remotely what I said.

I think this is a most important point, because it is at the heart of the Gospel. If we say that non-Christians have even the slightest possibility of salvation, we deny Scripture, give unbelievers false hope, and empty the Gospel of its power.

No, we do not give unbelievers false hope because we're not talking about unbelievers. We're talking about those who want to believe, but to whom the Gospel has not been fully revealed.

Second, no, we do not empty the Gospel of it's power. We show that it's power is magnified because it can save the most unworthy.

Men and women are not sentenced to hell based upon whether or not they have heard of Jesus Christ. Rather, they are justly and fittingly condemned based upon the fact that they are sinners. Indeed, they are sinners who have failed to act responsibly on what God has already revealed to them -- whether through the light of creation (Romans 1), through the light of conscience (Romans 2), or through the light of Christ (Romans 3). If people respond to whatever light they do have, then God will send them the light of the gospel. Because no one has been kept in the dark about God's existence, we're all accountable directly to Him (Luke 12:47-48).
 
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richterforest

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Yes, I agree, that John is doing a great job answering questions.

I have no idea how to quote certain parts of a message and then respond to them, so bear with me on my response, lol!

On, whether Old Testament people can go to heaven. I feel the Law was there for that reason, until Christ came to fulfill the Law, and bring in the age of grace.

On whether or not retarded people should have to die without having sinned. Romans 5:12-14 answers that one well. We all have a sin nature because our ancestor Adam did. His curse is in us all through his blood. Christ's blood was shed to bring that curse to an end if we but follow him and make him our Lord and saviour.

Also remember, ?believe?, that sin causes all the illnesses and maladies that we have upon us. If not for sin, man would still be in a perfect state and mutations of genes would not occur.
 
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joshua41

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I have always wondered how someone can believe in God. Lets not look at the evidence but look at the inconsitencies?

For example, Jesus. If Jesus is the only way to heaven then after he died how were the people in say Madagscar saved? How about the people who died 10 seconds after Jesus who never heard the word? Are they in hell?
In one of the gospels, Jesus says that the servant who did not know that his master was coming but did what deserved a beating would receive a light beating; this is opposed to the person who did know his master was coming back and still did what was wrong--this person will receive a heavy beating.

Why would God let children be born retarded? If mans purpose here on earth is to tend to his business then how can these people be of use?
Jesus also says that many who are last will be first and vice versa.

Yet, I could have everything I've ever wanted, but if I did not have God in my life I wouldn't have anything.

I can't explain it

Why does God allow his followers to be punished? How come they arent perfect?
If they keep sinning then whats the point? Why not just take them home or give some kind of reward that others can see? Believers are all sinners still so they only hurt the message by letting others see them sin.
I definitely agree with the latter half of what you said. I've done many things that are not Christian since becoming a Christian, and I definitely regret these actions.

I struggle with addiction of certain types; yet, if I do not repent from this, I will be unable to bear fruit.

Still, even though we may still sin, (even Paul called out Peter for showing partiality), we grow and slowly overcome sin as our faith grows.

How come Christians (Baptists) frown on drinking? Jesus drank wine.
How about dancing? Jesus danced too.
What about so called foul language? who says that certain words are curse words? The bible doesnt say <staff edit>. Its mans conotations on it that make it that way.
David danced in front of the ark.

There is nothing wrong with drinking wine-- it is drinking too much that becomes a problem.

Paul says that everyone who believes in Jesus is a son of promise. If we are sons of promise, we are entrusted with word of our lord and savior Jesus Christ. We should be (which I am not always) humble and contrite, non judgmental (which I am not always), and we should not purposely cause strife or dishonor of the word of God by using language that is offensive.

Good questions! :)
 
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arunma

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I really do resent being told that I deny scripture, especially when I have tried so hard to base my answers and arguments, including this one on scripture.

I'm sorry that you resent being told that you deny Scripture, and it is not my intention to offend you. However, to afford non-Christians even the slightest possibility of salvation is to do deny what Scripture says about human nature. Therefore, it is important that we be very clear about what we believe. Vagueness is a breeding ground for heresy. Very rarely will you find an evangelical who says "I am a universalist." Instead, evangelical heretics will respond with unclear comments that make it difficult to determine precisely what they believe. I've read enough of your posts to know that you don't fall into this category. Therefore, let us all be crystal clear about what we believe regarding unbelievers who never hear about Jesus and the issue of salvation. These are matters of life and death. The Bible says that all men are naturally condemned because God's wrath remains on them (John 3:18), and therefore they cannot be saved unless they hear about Christ and receive him by faith in him.
 
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J

JohnDeereFan

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I'm sorry that you resent being told that you deny Scripture, and it is not my intention to offend you. However, to afford non-Christians even the slightest possibility of salvation is to do deny what Scripture says about human nature. Therefore, it is important that we be very clear about what we believe. Vagueness is a breeding ground for heresy. Very rarely will you find an evangelical who says "I am a universalist." Instead, evangelical heretics will respond with unclear comments that make it difficult to determine precisely what they believe. I've read enough of your posts to know that you don't fall into this category. Therefore, let us all be crystal clear about what we believe regarding unbelievers who never hear about Jesus and the issue of salvation. These are matters of life and death. The Bible says that all men are naturally condemned because God's wrath remains on them (John 3:18), and therefore they cannot be saved unless they hear about Christ and receive him by faith in him.

And I believe that I've made a Biblical case (you know, the Bible you say I've denied?) that says that God does show mercy to those who, because of reasons beyond their control, have never heard the Gospel and cannot respond.
 
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