'I don't think this is so. God is just and merciful."
Let's take a look at that statement shall we? What does God being just mean to you? To me it means that God must punish those who break His laws, the Ten Commandments.
Let's take a look at a hypothetical witness encounter. Let's say I'm witnessing to an unsaved person, using the law in my presentation of the Gospel message. Here's how it has typically played out in the past.
Me: Have you ever stolen anything, irregardless of value?
Unsaved person: Yes.
Me: What does that make you?
Unsaved person: A thief.
Me: Have you ever told a lie?
Unsaved person: Yep.
Me: What does that make you?
Unsaved person: A liar.
Me: Have you ever used God's name as a cuss word, or to express frustration or anger?
Unsaved person: Yes.
Me: This is a very serious offense called blasphemy. You have taken the name of the creator of everything in the universe, of you and me, and used it as a way to express anger and frustration.
Me: Have you ever looked at a woman and had a sexual thought about her?
Unsaved person: Oh yeah.
Me: Jesus said that any man who looks upon a woman with lust has comitted adultery with her alreadyin his heart.
Okay, so by your own admission, you are a thieving, lying, blasphemous, adulterer at heart and you have to stand before a holy and just God on Judgment Day. If God is just and must punish those who break His laws, where do you think you will end up, in Heaven or in Hell?
*Now anybody who is being honest will know that they are going to Hell, if God is just, because they have broken His laws.
Me: But God made a way for us to avoid going to Hell. He showed mercy by sending His son to die on a cross in our place, to take the punishment that we all have earned through our sin. So in order to receive the gift of salvation, you must repent of your sin, that means acknowlege that you are a sinner, confess it to God, tell him that you are sorry for the sin you have comitted, tell him you want to turn from that sin, and put your faith and trust in His son Jesus Christ, and you will be saved from God's wrath.
"We only have a temporal lifespan; eternal damnation, condemnation or judgement is not a just punishment/reward for such."
Yes it is. When you are shown that you have broken the laws of God, Hell is the punishment for breaking those Laws. That is God's standard, 'break my laws, go to Hell'. You earned it, all by yourself. Let's look at it another way. If you were standing before a judge and had been found guilty of breaking some laws in this country and told him in your defense, that you only broke a few laws, and that you were really a good person and your good deeds outweighed your bad deeds, would you really expect a just judge to let you go free? Just because you said you were a good person and you were sorry for what you had done? No! Of course not! Justice would not be served at all, if he just let you go. So why should we expect God to let us off the hook, just because we say we're sorry?
Following your line of thinking, Jesus didn't have to die on the cross to take our punishment. I mean, if God is just going to let us in to Heaven because He's so merciful, we don't need a savior. Because what are we being saved from? Without the law to convict you of your sin and show that you are guilty, the cross doesn't make any sense. If you have plaecd your trust in Jesus, why have you done so, if God is just mercy and love and is going to let you into Heaven regardless of what you've done in opposition to Him?
"Just my opinion. A lot of pastors, evangelists will use the 'Hell rap' to scare people into their religion. Be careful who you listen to."
Based upon your statements, I am going to beg you to reconsider your position on this whole doctrine of Hell. Jesus spoke more about Hell than He did about Heaven. Why do you think that is? Was He just trying to scare people into doing what is right? I don't think so.
I really sympathize with the OP.
But we really don't know what our loved ones last thought was before they passed. It could of been of God and sorrow for their sins. When it comes to crunch time in ones life, we think or behave differently. Even if that crunch time in a nanosecond.
don't give up hope and dont dwell on the negative. God judges justly, we leave it in His hands. His wll be done.
His will is our will also, what ever that may be when it comes to loved ones that have died.
"But it is up to them so save themself."Well we should'nt be. We should everthing in our to help them. But it is up to them so save themself.
Augustine said God is just, if a person is just God willI think all the time about my close family members who have died, and those who will die as in the future, who are not Christians. The Bible says they will go to hell. How can we be happy as Christians in that knowledge? Thinking of this torments me daily!
Thank you.
K, I have to rep your post here... just the other day I watched "the Way of the Master", and they relayed the new statistics on large groups of people who accepted the Lord in one year.
As it boiled down with the "LOVE ONLY" (lack of witnessing about sin, penalties of sin etc), 90 out of the 100 FELL AWAY from their original committment to Christ.
10 out 100 actually last past one year... that's a horrible stat!
And this is all with the "love only" method of witnessing.
People MUST KNOW what they are being saved FROM in order to appreciate God's precious gift & realize the need for His precious sacrifice for us.
Augustine said God is just, if a person is just God will not refuse him. Ron
Chapter and verse please??!
The Bible clearly says that we are saved only by God's grace through our faith in Him. It is only in the name of Jesus and faith in His name that salvation is found...not if a person is just or not. Being 'just' doesn't save anyone!
I think all the time about my close family members who have died, and those who will die as in the future, who are not Christians. The Bible says they will go to hell. How can we be happy as Christians in that knowledge? Thinking of this torments me daily!
Thank you.
I pity those who believe hell will be a place to party (if there is such a person who really, in their heart of hearts believes this)
I know how you feel. I have thoughts like that too - I'm sure you'll get plenty of posts that deny Hell exists & that God is too loving to send people there forever, etc etc.
All I will say is, IT'S IN THE BIBLE everywhere as a sobering fact.
You know, it's really unproductive if you think about it. There's NOTHING we can do about our loved ones who reject Christ after they've gone...
You can't change anything, so it's pretty futile to continue thinking of it; - it might also be an attack that Satan is bringing against you to get your attn. on something unproductive and possibly destructive...
Aside from that, I don't think we're supposed to dwell on negative things like that becuz it steals our JOY in the Lord and I think it makes us unproductive over time. Those thoughts can really turn against God or truth if you let them... it can build doubt, bitterness, anger, etc.
Be careful where you let mind stay. Guard it.
Here's a verse that might help:
Phil. 4:8
Finally, brethren, whatever is true, whatever is honorable, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is of good repute, if there is any excellence and if anything worthy of praise, dwell on these things.
Ray Comfort And Kirk Cameon are awesome! Great ministry.
Ray Comfort does talk about this in an excellent way, and my Bible teacher once said that the reason people don't witness more is because we don't really believe in hell like we should. It breaks my heart to think about what will happen, and I hope one day it will break it enough that I move out of my self-serving comfort zone and be a witness to get people off that path.
This is an excerpt of an e-mail to Ray from an atheist.
"You are really convinced that you've got all the answers. You've really got yourself tricked into believing that you're 100% right. Well, let me tell you just one thing. Do you consider yourself to be compassionate of other humans? If you're right, as you say you are, and you believe that, then how can you sleep at night? When you speak with me, you are speaking with someone who you believe is walking directly into eternal damnation, into an endless onslaught of horrendous pain which your 'loving' god created, yet you stand by and do nothing.
If you believed one bit that thousands every day were falling into an eternal and unchangeable fate, you should be running the streets mad with rage at their blindness. That's equivalent to standing on a street corner and watching every person that passes you walk blindly directly into the path of a bus and die, yet you stand idly by and do nothing. You're just twiddling your thumbs, happy in the knowledge that one day that 'walk' signal will shine your way across the road.
Think about it. Imagine the horrors Hell must have in store if the Bible is true. You're just going to allow that to happen and not care about saving anyone but yourself? If you're right then you're an uncaring, unemotional and purely selfish (expletive) that has no right to talk about subjects such as love and caring."
Quoted with permission from Livingwaters.com
'I don't think this is so. God is just and merciful."
Let's take a look at that statement shall we? What does God being just mean to you? To me it means that God must punish those who break His laws, the Ten Commandments.
Let's take a look at a hypothetical witness encounter. Let's say I'm witnessing to an unsaved person, using the law in my presentation of the Gospel message. Here's how it has typically played out in the past.
Me: Have you ever stolen anything, irregardless of value?
Unsaved person: Yes.
Me: What does that make you?
Unsaved person: A thief.
Me: Have you ever told a lie?
Unsaved person: Yep.
Me: What does that make you?
Unsaved person: A liar.
Me: Have you ever used God's name as a cuss word, or to express frustration or anger?
Unsaved person: Yes.
Me: This is a very serious offense called blasphemy. You have taken the name of the creator of everything in the universe, of you and me, and used it as a way to express anger and frustration.
Me: Have you ever looked at a woman and had a sexual thought about her?
Unsaved person: Oh yeah.
Me: Jesus said that any man who looks upon a woman with lust has comitted adultery with her alreadyin his heart.
Okay, so by your own admission, you are a thieving, lying, blasphemous, adulterer at heart and you have to stand before a holy and just God on Judgment Day. If God is just and must punish those who break His laws, where do you think you will end up, in Heaven or in Hell?
*Now anybody who is being honest will know that they are going to Hell, if God is just, because they have broken His laws.
Me: But God made a way for us to avoid going to Hell. He showed mercy by sending His son to die on a cross in our place, to take the punishment that we all have earned through our sin. So in order to receive the gift of salvation, you must repent of your sin, that means acknowlege that you are a sinner, confess it to God, tell him that you are sorry for the sin you have comitted, tell him you want to turn from that sin, and put your faith and trust in His son Jesus Christ, and you will be saved from God's wrath.
"We only have a temporal lifespan; eternal damnation, condemnation or judgement is not a just punishment/reward for such."
Yes it is. When you are shown that you have broken the laws of God, Hell is the punishment for breaking those Laws. That is God's standard, 'break my laws, go to Hell'. You earned it, all by yourself. Let's look at it another way. If you were standing before a judge and had been found guilty of breaking some laws in this country and told him in your defense, that you only broke a few laws, and that you were really a good person and your good deeds outweighed your bad deeds, would you really expect a just judge to let you go free? Just because you said you were a good person and you were sorry for what you had done? No! Of course not! Justice would not be served at all, if he just let you go. So why should we expect God to let us off the hook, just because we say we're sorry?
Following your line of thinking, Jesus didn't have to die on the cross to take our punishment. I mean, if God is just going to let us in to Heaven because He's so merciful, we don't need a savior. Because what are we being saved from? Without the law to convict you of your sin and show that you are guilty, the cross doesn't make any sense. If you have plaecd your trust in Jesus, why have you done so, if God is just mercy and love and is going to let you into Heaven regardless of what you've done in opposition to Him?
"Just my opinion. A lot of pastors, evangelists will use the 'Hell rap' to scare people into their religion. Be careful who you listen to."
Based upon your statements, I am going to beg you to reconsider your position on this whole doctrine of Hell. Jesus spoke more about Hell than He did about Heaven. Why do you think that is? Was He just trying to scare people into doing what is right? I don't think so.
For us to even have an afterlife we need to repent of our sin and and put our faith and trust in Jesus Christ. The Bible is clear on this. Your statement suggests that it is by works that we earn an afterlife, which is a teaching that totally contradicts scripture.We make our own afterlife. You'll see! Everyone gets saved in the end.
The bible doesn't teach universal salvation.We make our own afterlife. You'll see! Everyone gets saved in the end.
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