How Can So Many People be WRONG?

[eph3Nine]

How can so many people be wrong?



We have all heard the idiom, ‘what is popular is not always right’. This is even truer when it comes to sound doctrine within the word of God.

We must not forget that what is true is true, no matter how many believe (Romans 3:4). Many people are following the wrong doctrine, because of their ignorance of the message or deception by Satan and his ministers.

Unknown by many people, although Christ has conquered sin and death he has not yet returned to claim his rightful position over the heaven and earth. We live in a ‘present evil world’ where Satan is the ‘prince of the power of the air’ (Gal 1:4, 1 Cor 2:8, Eph 2:2).

We must beware of the tradition of men that is after the world, and not after Christ, because the course of the world is under Satanic influence:

Colossians 2:8 “Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.”

Eph 2:2 “Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that now worketh in the children of disobedience:”

In the dispensation of the grace of God, God’s policy of salvation is by grace through faith not of works (Eph 2:8-9). Satan’s policy is to preach salvation by works in order to minimize the cross of Christ and to condemn man’s soul (2 Cor 4:3-4).

The tradition of the world teaches a religious achievement-by-works salvation which is in opposition to God’s grace. Even many ministers that preach the Word of God, do so ignorant of the revelation of the mystery and so cannot preach Christ according to the revelation of the mystery (Rom 16:25).

Many so-called ministers of righteousness will teach whatever doctrine pleases their congregation, but in doing so they turn from the truth:

2Ti 4:3 “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.”

These men are unfaithful, hirelings, of a fickle demagogue and must be reproved to ‘hold fast the form of sound words’ that Paul has taught (2 Tim 1:13).

 

[eph3Nine]

What will it be? The tradition of man, or sound doctrine?

 

[xenia]

Sound Tradition, given to man by God.

 

[sanct1fym3]

Sound Tradition, given to man by God.

I read in my bible where God gave us sound traditions, no wait, that wasn't the bible that was extrabiblical revelation. somehow God gave a bunch of denominations a bunch of different traditions, and they are supposed to all be sound, i don't even know where most of them came from, it's like easter egg hunting and haloween (however it is spelled). And what is the penalty for leaving tradition? Loss of salvation? Death? Did God say it's a sin not to have tradition? If i don't cross myself does God not hear my prayer? It all seems so anamistic (I can't spell today sry). If i can please God through my tradition then maybe he'll be happier with me. God won't love me if i don't wear a suit to church, god loves me more if i have short hair. There may be some valid traditions, like communion, but there is no mandate to do communion. Where do we draw a line between tradition and culture?

I'll probably not answer if you do resond, i'm merely taking a break from reading Isaiah for school, it's very long and repetitive, but good too.

 

[xenia]

Well, you should avoid unsound Tradition not given to man by God. Then you'll be ok.

 

[biblebeliever123]

Look at what the Bible says about 'traditons'.

Matthew 15:1 Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying,Matthew 15:2 Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread.Matthew 15:3 But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition?

Matthew 15:6 And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

Mark 7:1 Then came together unto him the Pharisees, and certain of the scribes, which came from Jerusalem.Mark 7:2 And when they saw some of his disciples eat bread with defiled, that is to say, with unwashen, hands, they found fault.Mark 7:3 For the Pharisees, and all the Jews, except they wash their hands oft, eat not, holding the tradition of the elders.

Mark 7:5 Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples according to the tradition of the elders, but eat bread with unwashen hands?Mark 7:6 He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of you hypocrites, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but their heart is far from me.

Mark 7:8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do.
Mark 7:9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.


Mark 7:13 Making the word of God of none effect through your tradition, which ye have delivered: and many such like things do ye.

Galatians 1:14 And profited in the Jews' religion above many my equals in mine own nation, being more exceedingly zealous of the traditions of my fathers.

Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.

1 Peter 1:18 Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers;

"Tradition" in the above verses doesn't seem to be something desirable does it??

There are 2 other verses where the word 'tradition' is used....and in these 2 verses it is talking about following something that the apostle Paul (the apostle to the Gentiles) gives.

2 Thessalonians 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

2 Thessalonians 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

 

[biblebeliever123]

Paul is the ony Bible writer to use the term 'sound doctrine.'

1 Timothy 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;

Titus 1:9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers.

Titus 2:1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

 

[biblebeliever123]

Since Paul is the apostle to the Gentiles, the one who was given the revelation of the mystery by the risen, ascended Lord from glory...let's look at a few verses about doctrine from him.

Romans 6:17 But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.Romans 6:18 Being then made free from sin, ye became the servants of righteousness.

Romans 16:17 Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.Romans 16:18 For they that are such serve not our Lord Jesus Christ, but their own belly; and by good words and fair speeches deceive the hearts of the simple.

Ephesians 4:14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive;Ephesians 4:15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ:

1 Timothy 1:3 As I besought thee to abide still at Ephesus, when I went into Macedonia, that thou mightest charge some that they teach no other doctrine,1 Timothy 1:4 Neither give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questions, rather than godly edifying which is in faith: so do.

1 Timothy 1:9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers,
1 Timothy 1:10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;
1 Timothy 1:11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

1 Timothy 4:6 If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.1 Timothy 4:7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables, and exercise thyself rather unto godliness.

1 Timothy 4:12 Let no man despise thy youth; but be thou an example of the believers, in word, in conversation, in charity, in spirit, in faith, in purity.
1 Timothy 4:13 Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.

1 Timothy 4:15 Meditate upon these things; give thyself wholly to them; that thy profiting may appear to all.
1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

1 Timothy 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

1 Timothy 6:1 Let as many servants as are under the yoke count their own masters worthy of all honour, that the name of God and his doctrine be not blasphemed.

1 Timothy 6:3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness;

2 Timothy 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,

2 Timothy 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:2 Timothy 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;2 Timothy 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

Titus 2:7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,Titus 2:8 Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

Titus 2:9 Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;
Titus 2:10 Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Saviour in all things.
Titus 2:11 For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,Titus 2:12 Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world;Titus 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;

God stresses doctrine in the mystery He revealed to Paul for usward.

(I tried to put the verses before and after so that you could read the verses about DOCTRINE with some context.)

 

[xenia]

That fact that these verses made it into the cannon of scripture is part of the Tradition.

 

[eph3Nine]

That fact that these verses made it into the cannon of scripture is part of the Tradition.

Did you actually READ the verses having to do with tradition and how we are to avoid it?

Did you READ that Paul is the ONLY one who uses the phrase "sound doctrine?"

God tells us in his Word who and what to follow, and its NOT tradition!

 

[biblebeliever123]

It's apparent from the verses given (and I'm sure people who search the scriptures could find more that would be applicable)...that God in His Word does not 'magnify' traditions, especially traditions of men.
He does however MAGNIFY HIS WORD.
Psalms 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

If a person reads the Scriptures given with an honest attitude they should see that God wants to renew our minds with sound doctrine, NOT with holding to traditions of men. Of course, some don't care what the Scriptures say and that's their choice.

 

[eph3Nine]

It's apparent from the verses given (and I'm sure people who search the scriptures could find more that would be applicable)...that God in His Word does not 'magnify' traditions, especially traditions of men.
He does however MAGNIFY HIS WORD.
Psalms 138:2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.

If a person reads the Scriptures given with an honest attitude they should see that God wants to renew our minds with sound doctrine, NOT with holding to traditions of men. Of course, some don't care what the Scriptures say and that's their choice.

Amen...sound doctrine is how God is working today...not by traditions of men. Scripture rightly divided MUST be our plumbline. Anything else is "man doing what is right in his OWN eyes", and falling for the plan of evil instituted by Satan.

 

[xenia]

2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

2Th 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

1Co 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the traditions, as I delivered them to you.

 

[eph3Nine]

2Th 2:15 Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.

2Th 3:6 Now we command you, brethren, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that ye withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us.

1Co 11:2 Now I praise you, brethren, that ye remember me in all things, and keep the traditions, as I delivered them to you.

Yes, Paul is speaking of the NEW information given him BY God for you and me. KEEP THE TRADITIONS AS I DELIVERED THEM TO YOU.

Hold the traditions which ye have been taught...by whom? By PAUL. The MYSTERY truths were the traditions being spoken of here....NOT the traditions of MEN or of a program God long ago CEASED.

We must interpret scripture WITH scripture, not just hunt and peck til we find a similar word and try to proof text with it. Thats NOT bible study at all!

The tradition of the world teaches a religious achievement-by-works salvation which is in opposition to God’s grace. Even many ministers that preach the Word of God, do so ignorant of the revelation of the mystery and so cannot preach Christ according to the revelation of the mystery (Rom 16:25).

 

[xenia]

Dispensationalism is a tradition then. Is that what you are saying?

 

[eph3Nine]

Dispensationalism is a tradition then. Is that what you are saying?

Nope...not saying that at all. Scripture tells us what dispensationalism IS. It is the "house rules" of God. It is Gods specific ECONOMY for the people to whom it is addressed. It is a BIBLICAL word.

We are told to make sure we maintain the DIFFERENCE between Israels program and the program in place today for the Body of Christ. They are NOT the same. One is Judaism and One is Christianity. One is mans way of reaching God and one is Gods way of reaching man.

We are told to follow PAUL as he followed Christ. He didnt even KNOW the earthly Jesus, but he did have an unscheduled meeting on the Road to Damascus with the RISEN LORD OF GLORY, from whom He received NEW revelation that those of times PAST didnt have. It is information specifically given to him FOR we the Body of Christ.

Do you want the most recent information from God to you, or not?

 

[xenia]

Do you want the most recent information from God to you, or not?

This can be found in the Orthodox Christian Church.

Come and see!

 

[eph3Nine]

No...the ONLY place this information is found is in the epistles of Paul...NOT in a building made with hands, and a denomination that is clearly operating in a defunct program that God stopped thousands of years ago. You have "religion" and nothing more.

That is sooooo sad, when God has provided all you need as a result of the finished work of the Cross.

 

[xenia]

Paul says that the pillar and foundation of the truth is the church.

How do you know I just have religion and nothing more? How do you know that I don't have a vibrant personal relationship with Jesus Christ?

 

[eph3Nine]

Paul says that the pillar and foundation of the truth is the church.

How do you know I just have religion and nothing more? How do you know that I don't have a vibrant personal relationship with Jesus Christ?

Which CHURCH (a group of called out ones ...called out for a specific PURPOSE) is Paul referring to ?

The church which is His Body is the ONLY church that Paul can be referring...he isnt speaking about the KINGDOM church and gospel preached by Peter and Christ on earth.

If you are not holding fast to the sound doctrine given to we the Body of Christ by GOD to Paul, then scripture says you are believing "another gospel and another jesus"...specifically, the gospel of Peter and the EARTHLY words of Jesus which by His own statement were to the jew alone!

You are trying to establish your own righteousness thru the works of the law! By YOUR OWN ADMISSION! That is NOT acceptable, God says! I didnt say it...HE DOES.

You either accept the righteousness GIVEN to you by faith in the finished work of Christ , or you are NONE Of His. Scripture tells me this...so YOU put yourself in the category, NOT I.