How can RCs and Protestants reconcile

katholikos · Feb 11, 2009

Uphill Battle said:
I guess you've only been "polite" to me since I'm not a Catholic. would it help if I put a RCC faith Icon on temporarily so you can tell me how you really feel?

the Catholic Church, despite what you think of it, preaches the gospel. Jesus Christ crucified.

They answer this question "and who do you say I am?" with the same as you and I. "You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God."

end of story.

Thank you for that

JohnDeereFan · Feb 11, 2009

katholikos said:
I gave him a video of the pope singing scripture. He's just a hater

Yeah, your the one with the pope who's the former Hitler Youth that fought for Hitler, and I'm the hater?

You gave me a video of the pope singing the Lord's Prayer. I asked for evidence of the pope preaching the Gospel.

ARBITER01 · Feb 11, 2009

Nadiine said:
Um, no offense, but the headship of the Catholic church
SHOULD be preaching the gospel also....
since I don't listen to his sermons or statements, I can't say
if he has or hasn't.

I can only say that ANY Shepherd of God SHOULD be preaching
the gospel often and continually.

Well,... it may be happening to some degree, but it doesn't mean their worship is directed at Jesus instead of their denominational leader. Actions speak louder than words.

JohnDeereFan · Feb 11, 2009

Uphill Battle said:
I guess you've only been "polite" to me since I'm not a Catholic.

No, I've been polite to you because that's the right way to treat people.

the Catholic Church, despite what you think of it, preaches the gospel. Jesus Christ crucified.

And yet, nobody can come up with an example.

They answer this question "and who do you say I am?" with the same as you and I. "You are the Christ, the Son of the Living God."

They also deny the sufficiency of Christ's atonement and pray to dead people and call Mary the "Queen of Heaven".

JohnDeereFan · Feb 11, 2009

So, Nadine, now do you see why I said that Catholics can't articulate the Gospel?

katholikos · Feb 11, 2009

ARBITER01 said:
Well,... it may be happening to some degree, but it doesn't mean their worship is directed at Jesus instead of their denominational leader. Actions speak louder than words.

I don't appreciate that remark. Catholics worship God alone - only He do we worship

We worship no man. We only give the respect that is due the pope's office

JohnDeereFan · Feb 11, 2009

katholikos said:
I don't appreciate that remark. Catholics worship God alone - only He do we worship

...and Mary.

sunlover1 · Feb 11, 2009

squint said:
I used the Trinity (which I agree with) as an example. Feel free to insert whatever other 'doctrinal requirement' you might use to condemn your fellow man in various forms and continue on with the observation.

Oh, I'm sure there are numerous ways to deny it, mitigate it, or even eliminate it entirely?

Says you. I am not aware that loving our neighbors was a problem or that it would not be applicable in 1 John 4:7

Putting words in his mouth (strawman) is divisive.

squint · Feb 11, 2009

sunlover1 said:
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Putting words in his mouth (strawman) is divisive.

Uh, what was that strawman particularly again? I really like my charges to contain specifics that I could engage with, if that's OK w/U?

ARBITER01 · Feb 11, 2009

katholikos said:
I don't appreciate that remark. Catholics worship God alone - only He do we worship

We worship no man. We only give the respect that is due the pope's office

What you say here does not add up to what we see happen before us, nor what is written as doctrine for your denomination, and I don't see any change happening anytime soon.

As far as reconciliation, I see none happening here, but I'm not that worried about it anyways. The GT forum section is a hotbed for report activity and when moderators finally get tired of "dealing with it" they will just get rid of it like they have other forum sections.

Nadiine · Feb 11, 2009

katholikos said:
I gave him a video of the pope singing scripture. He's just a hater

JohnDeereFan said:
So, Nadine, now do you see why I said that Catholics can't articulate the Gospel?

K - -

I'm a neutral party in this becuz I don't condemn ALL Catholics - but
just like anyone of ANY denomination or religious group (or whatever
you want to label the term) there are plenty of bad apples in all
of them
& plenty of good ones that we don't have to divide from.

I'm also not against division where it's warrented (it's biblical in fact).

If the Pope is ONLY 'singing' a gospel once or twice , then it may be better than nothing, but Jesus taught & preached - by example, we're told
to preach.... I'm not sure singing it exactly qualifies?

All I know is, I wouldn 't appreciate my Pastor of my church singing us
the gospel message or sermon.
I need substance & meat of the word - preaching/teaching.

I'm not out to attack the Pope either, just giving my few cents
on it.

To JohnDeerefan - I don't know how many testify the gospel or not...
it's nothing I set out to do, but I wouldn't use CF as your litmus
test on this to make your case.

JohnDeereFan · Feb 11, 2009

katholikos said:
You sir are a liar, as the following posts prove:

How so?

That question proves that YOU are the one who doesn't understand the Gospel.

No, it just means that I'm asking you a question in order to give you an opportunity to explain your beliefs.

Reducing God's plan down to whats in it for you (how am I saved) is narrow minded and myopic. Being an adopted son of God means much more than just being "saved"

Then why does the Bible say that we are to preach the Gospel so that men may be saved?

Uphill Battle · Feb 11, 2009

okay. This is getting extremely nasty. I'm going to be reporting my own post to bring it to the mods attention, I expect a thread lock/cleanup is likely in order.

cheers.

Uphill Battle · Feb 11, 2009

It's a shame really... a thread about reconciliation shouldn't turn in to rampant bigotry... such is the nature of bigotry.

JohnDeereFan · Feb 11, 2009

Nadiine said:
I'm a neutral party in this

You ceased to be neutral the moment you defended Catholics and their understanding of the Gospel.

If the Pope is ONLY 'singing' a gospel once or twice...

Actually, he was singing the Lord's Prayer, not the Gospel.

JohnDeereFan · Feb 11, 2009

Uphill Battle said:
okay. This is getting extremely nasty. I'm going to be reporting my own post to bring it to the mods attention, I expect a thread lock/cleanup is likely in order.

cheers.

It's already been reported.

CaliforniaJosiah · Feb 11, 2009

katholikos said:
That is a lie

Well.....

A point I've made often and boldly is that the RCC does NOT (and never has) approved the "worship" of Mary as divine. In fact, it is rather clearly and strongly on recorded DISAPPROVING that.

Now, there are Catholics (individuals who worship in a Catholic Church) that, IMHO, take their Marian devotion a bit... well, far. And while I am 100% convinced that even they do not regard Mary as divine (and thus do NOT "worship" Our Lady in THAT sense) there is a devotion essentially the same. But, in my experience, many Catholics are as "troubled" by that as Protestants. WE ALL can get a bit carried away. Again, I don't think the RCC is - but some Catholics are.

But here's the point: "Worship" does NOT imply the divinity. If it did, all the mayors and judges in England would be gods since they are referred to as "Your worship." In reality, worship has a plethora of meanings - and only ONE of which implies divinity, and the RCC has been as bold and clear as it possibly would be to state that is NOT the meaning they are using. Get our your dictionary. "Worship" "adoration" "reverence" all basicially mean the same thing. Protestants may call their pastor "Reverend" but don't mean that therefore he/she is GOD. Well, folks, IT'S EXACTLY THE SAME THING in those Catholic snippets you googled about "worship" and Mary. Nothing more. This is much ado about NOTHING. One more thing. In Latin (typically the language official Catholic statements are communicated in), there are TWO entirely different words for "worship." One means to hold in high esteem, the other means to hold as divine. IN LATIN, Catholicism is crystal clear and absolutely consistent in using the word that means to hold in esteem and NEVER use the word that implied divinity. This whole issue is because Protestants aren't reading the official LATIN statements and are insisting a definition of "worship" be used that Catholics have boldly, consistently insisted is not the meaning they mean.

My perspective....

Pax

- Josiah

.

ARBITER01 · Feb 11, 2009

Uphill Battle said:
It's a shame really... a thread about reconciliation shouldn't turn in to rampant bigotry... such is the nature of bigotry.

It's not really bigotry to compare what is truth against the scriptures, and it is certainly not the first time that segments of society were unable to get along.

sunlover1 · Feb 11, 2009

Uphill Battle said:
It's a shame really... a thread about reconciliation shouldn't turn in to rampant bigotry... such is the nature of bigotry.

The playing field is unlevel here.
We speak two different languages.
Yeah, it does seem sort of futile to
try to change anything.

ARBITER01 · Feb 11, 2009

sunlover1 said:
The playing field is unlevel here.
We speak two different languages.
Yeah, it does seem sort of futile to
try to change anything.

Exactly.

There is never going to be an even playing field because the two parties involved adhere to separate rulesets as authority.

How can RCs and Protestants reconcile

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