How can Mary be sinless > 1 John 4:3

Are you right or Jesus right?

Mathew 11:11
Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not arisen a greater than John the Baptist: yet he that is but little in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Jesus declared this, And i believe he was God and is God. So are you declaring Jesus was a liar and you are correct?

joseph10 said:

Are you right or Jesus right?

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Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. John 3:3

I dunno, you tell me..

joseph10 said:

Mathew 11:11
Verily I say unto you, Among them that are born of women there hath not arisen a greater than John the Baptist: yet he that is but little in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he.
Jesus declared this, And i believe he was God and is God. So are you declaring Jesus was a liar and you are correct?

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Can you show us from that passage where it says John the baptist was not born again?

Lion King said:

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. John 3:3

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Amen!

Why can't you answer the simple question.

But you are right in a way. I am all knowing in a way. All i do is ask the Holy Spirit whom leads me into all truth and he tell me the matter.
So DID Jesus lie? Why can't you answer this simple question?

John was moved by the Holy Spirit to speak what he spoke. Yet that is not the new birth. John sent to Jesus and questioned him saying "Are you the one." John Could not see the Kingdom that had come. He was indeed the for runner of Christ. He indeed is a mighty prophet of God. I am a prophet also and i ofter speak under the power of the Holy Spirit with out even seeing what is coming. God overtakes prophets at times. He is God.
When John indicates by questing If Jesus is the one. It really testifies he is a prophet. Because he did not even recall that he proclaimed that Jesus was the Lamb of God whom was sent to take away the sins of the world. When he Baptised John.
Thus John 3:3 is the witness that Jesus spoke correctly that John was not of the kingdom of God as he indicated in Mat 11:11

joseph10 said:

But you are right in a way. I am all knowing in a way. All i do is ask the Holy Spirit whom leads me into all truth and he tell me the matter.
So DID Jesus lie? Why can't you answer this simple question?

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The old "if you disagree with my interpretation you disagree with God/Jesus/the Bible" canard.

You may think it strange to have a real bible study in a christian forum but i think if you are to grow you have to go to the meet of the problem. many people have there thinking, that they have been taught or hurt. I know know the Word of God and God. The scriptures are profitable for the casting down of things imagined.

I have simple given God word on the subject and stated what God himself said. The reason i did it that way is because any other system would be invalid as it would be possible to add error to the study.

Gods given word is always Right. And when Christ give the word directly then his word is FINAL on the subject. And YES his word is the final authority on the matter at hand. If you can't back it up in scripture then it is only imagination and must be case down as such. Indeed God can't lie nor does he want a person to be apart of a lie.

Jesus is truth, He declares truth and his word backs him UP 100 percent all the time. Jesus and the Word are in unity he is the Word.

I have only pointed to what is in the record of what is written in the WORD OF GOD. You point to imagination and traditions. God actually said your "traditions" make the word of no effect. A WARNING FROM GOD HIMSELF.

Just as the law was our school master the Word of God is also our school
master but we must cast down vanity and believe the matter as defined in Gods word. And seek out the matter.

CONFUSION is not of God. Were is your confusion coming from. Could is be traditions that do not line up with Gods word.

If God states all have sinned and fallen short of the Glory yet you teachers and your traditions are declaring a host of things not supported in the very Word of God as dictated to men by the Holy Spirit. Then whom is dictating to you teachers. For The Holy Spirit inspired the men whom delivered us the word of God. Is God divided now.

If traditions declare other then the truth of the Word of God. Shall we cast off the word of God that we should walk in the darkness of tradition and make the word of God to none effect.

Were the word does not take root in the heart surely God has not planted. And were the word is cast down is there light. Vanity of vanity i declare. Hear Yea the matter of truth there is but one Lord and One word and the Word is Lord. He whom does not allow Gods word to rule over his mind is lost. For God has spoke all all things. Cast down the imaginations
of you minds and drink of the pure word.

Shall you be destroyed for lack of knowledge. I have spoke not of my own but of Christ very own words and what is written in Gods word. How then shall give my heart and soul to your imaginations. I am the redeemed of God and i walk in his light and truth. not imaginations.

IF God has declared the matter and finished the matter whom are you to speak against what God alone declared. Now much pride is in that heart, how blind is that heart.

ALL HAVE SINNED, THE PROPHETS HAVE SINNED, THE APOSTLES HAVE SINNED EVEN MARY SINNED.

Lion King said:

Can you show us from that passage where it says John the baptist was not born again?

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Was anyone truly "born again", before Christ's resurrection? To say yes is to make null and void the whole redemption story.

Standing Up said:

Was anyone truly "born again", before Christ's resurrection? To say yes is to make null and void the whole redemption story.

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Abraham, for one, was "born again", in every sense of the word:

Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness. Genesis 15:6


Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. John 8:56


Everyone in the Old Testament was saved the same way as we are all are; by believing in Christ.

Tzaousios said:

The old "if you disagree with my interpretation you disagree with God/Jesus/the Bible" canard.

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Isn't that part of the "True Scotsman" argument?

Actually he was not born again. Christ spirit did not live in his heart. He retained God in his mind i am sure. But Christ lives in the heart of the born again believer. And Was Christ speaking of Abraham Rejoicing after death or before death. We are a new Kind of Creature that had never existed on the face of the planet until after salvation had come. We are not the old order we are a new order. Old things have passed away and all is new with the believer.
The born again believer is infused with the spirit of Christ that spirit could not be poured out until 50 days after Christ had died. So NO Abraham is not a christian. He is in heaven. He is saved via promise and the Abrahamic covenant. This Covenant indeed is enforced. We have a greater promise and a greater standing. We are a new kind of man if born again. We have God very own spirit living in our temple. The spirit of Jesus is infused with our very spirit. Thus it is written you are a new creature. We are not like Abraham.

I have not private understanding of God. Only what is in the Word of God. Could that be the reason that some church leaders keep the people in the church from actually having the written word of God for years. Because when people receive the Holy Spirit he will declare truth and give them the understanding. That is how we got the dark ages actually.

joseph10 said:

I have not private understanding of God. Only what is in the Word of God. Could that be the reason that some church leaders keep the people in the church from actually having the written word of God for years. Because when people receive the Holy Spirit he will declare truth and give them the understanding. That is how we got the dark ages actually.

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I thought we got the dark ages from a combination of a muslim controlled East shutting down the silk road to the West
political instability from the fall of the roman empire
and a climate change that made the average temperature drop a bit making farming slightly harder/less profitable.

Lion King said:

Abraham, for one, was "born again", in every sense of the word:

Abram believed the LORD, and he credited it to him as righteousness. Genesis 15:6


Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad. John 8:56


Everyone in the Old Testament was saved the same way as we are all are; by believing in Christ.

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Yes, we're all saved the same way. But was Abraham "born again"? Born of water and Spirit?

Abraham saw ahead to His day. We live in it. So, not clear to me that anyone, pre resurrection, was "born again".

isshinwhat said:

I would say no more than people stand in awe of humble and obedient people now...

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But those people aren't conceived/born without sin, as RC teaches Mary was. Even humble and obedient people sin, no? Is worry a sin?

Of course we research what it means to be the seed of Abraham but would that make Abraham born Again.

Being saved and born again are two different things! We that are Born Again are saved by the act of simple belief in Christ free gift.

We are the receivers of the promised Christ. Abraham looked for a city built by God himself. Of course we as children of God election we to are going to the promise land.

I have considered both side of this coin. And can declare we are not given evidence to support Abraham is born again. We are also not given evidence to prove he is not.

I base that on this bit of bible information. Christ went to hell and preached to those in at the for chamber. My vast thinking on this leads me belief that in order for Christ to preach to the whole of mankind in hell he actually stepped across time to the end of time to deliver this final gospel
message. If my thinking is correct then indeed Abraham could be saved.

The reason i think Christ had to step across time to the end of the days is because it must be preached to every person.

I think we all can agree it makes interesting study. We are the seed of Abraham the heirs of the promise with believing Abraham. I hope he is born again myself. Either way i and he are still going to heaven. Actually he is in heaven right now.

He has a covenant, mine is better.

joseph10 said:

You may think it strange to have a real bible study in a christian forum but i think if you are to grow you have to go to the meet of the problem. many people have there thinking, that they have been taught or hurt. I know know the Word of God and God. The scriptures are profitable for the casting down of things imagined.

I have simple given God word on the subject and stated what God himself said. The reason i did it that way is because any other system would be invalid as it would be possible to add error to the study.

Gods given word is always Right.

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You have been very aggressive and unfair to the Catholics on this topic, especially in what you tried to say re John the Baptist. And I would add that you do not appear to know the Word quite as well as you say you do.

John the Baptist had been first in heralding Christ's kingdom, and was God's special messenger for this time.

All Jesus was saying in Mat 11:11 was that this did not make John any better than anyone else. Being "greater than John the Baptist" in no way denoted that John was not saved. "Least in the kingdom of heaven," means that John was also a part of the kingdom of heaven. This is a pretty obvious implication of the text.

Another example of John being a just man, and holy is where we read:

""Herod feared John, knowing that he was a just man and an holy; . . . and when he heard him, he did many things, and heard him gladly." (Mark 6:20).

As God's special messenger, John dealt with Herod faithfully, denouncing his iniquitous alliance with Herodias, his brother's wife. For a time Herod feebly sought to break the chain of lust that bound him; but Herodias fastened him the more firmly in her toils, and found revenge upon the Baptist by inducing Herod to cast him into prison.

It was here where, John experienced that "fellowship in His suffering" that the NT refers to; and that we all can experience today.

I would not be so quick to denounce John as "not converted." Unless you want to make the Bible contradict itself then you can proof-text and cherry-pick Bible verses till your heart is content.