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It's a constant source of curiosity.
I first want to start by requesting that you'll only answer if you have a solid foundation on bible doctrines. Saying to me, "well that doesn't apply to you because God is love He wouldn't send you to hell; or well you care so you're saved;" will not help at all, nor is biblically sound. I desperately need help, but I need the help to be correct..
I grew up in a Christian home. It was forced on me by my parents, so naturally I rebelled against it in my teenage years. I became an, "atheist." Well one day, when I just turned 18, my football coach offered salvation through Jesus Christ to me. I declined, but due to circumstances set up by God, accepted his offer a week later. I chose to believe in Jesus Christ as savior, but He was not yet Lord. But God did deliver me from the insurmountable situation. I have been told my whole life that I have a Call of God on my life.
God called me to bible college in 2013, and I obeyed Him and went. There, I was heavily trained in Bible Theology, as well as ministry. I received hands-on experience with how to be used by the Holy Ghost as a vessel. I preached to people, was persecuted, saw demons manifest in people around me when I preached the gospel. (Even had a posessed guy punch me in the face) laid hands on the sick and saw miraculous healings, ect. (even saw a broken bone snap back into play with a loud, "pop" sound.)
The problem was that It was never truly about the Lord to me. I wanted to marry a girl that went to the college with me. She was an idol to me, and I never truly put God before her. I would only serve God with her in mind as the end result. It was never about the Lord Jesus Christ.
By the end of my time in the bible college in 2015, she decided to be with someone else, whom she is to this day married to. I left the bible college as well as the call of God on my life. I said to God, something to the extent of, "Jesus, God, Holy Spirit, I'm done with you."
I then began sinning intentionally with the specific intent and purpose of silencing the voice of the Holy Ghost in my heart. Since then, I have slept with 30 women, and have fallen into a more sinful state than I ever was previously in. 7 times worse sounds about right.
Since then, I have found myself in a place of absolute despair. I have found no place in my heart for repentance of any sort. I feel no sorrow for my sins, cannot hear from God, continue living a wicked lifestyle.. ect. I'm telling you, I cannot seem to break through this problem. I cry out day and night, but my heart remains wicked. If i'm honest, I only care because I know hell is at stake.
I can almost believe with certainty that nobody currently alive has studied Hebrews 6 more than I have. I have read what seems to be every commentary, every translation, and every interpretation many times over. I probably have, without exaggeration, put 100 hours study into Hebrews 6:4-6. I know the Calvanist, Armenian, and pretty much every other interpretation, as well as the flaws behind them.
The only interpretation that is completely flawed throughout is the one that says, "the writer is describing that it is impossible to fall away and lose your salvation." - the bible does not speak in such complex verbiage. It is made to where the simple minded can understand. I'm no slouch when it comes to the English Language, but trying to read it in the way they describe is completely confusing and asinine.
That being said, I have decided, based on 100 hours of research that this verse means either one of two things.
1. If a person is indulged in the things of God to the extent that I was, and does not backslide, but rather consciously turns their back on the faith.. then it is impossible that they, under any circumstance, ever return to repentance. It's not that God wouldn't forgive them if they did, but rather that their hearts will never be able to be changed, due to their prior exposal to the things of God.
2. If a person falls away after being in the fulness of the things of God, then it is impossible for any man to lead them back to the way of righteousness. (There are numerous scriptures in the NT talking about leading people going astray, back to repentance.) This interpretation says that BECAUSE they are crucifying to themselves the Son of God afresh, it is impossible. They cannot be reasoned with. But if they decide to, then they can come back.
I truly do not know which one of these is correct.
Does anybody have anything that I have missed? Does anybody have insight or a first hand experience related to this? All answered are greatly appreciated.
If you have read enough and just want answer the quick question, then stop here.. but i'm going to further expand on the backstory in this situation, to show you how crazy it really is if you keep reading.
6 months after leaving bible college, I got into a motorcycle accident that almost killed me. Before leaving the house that night, I felt something nudging at me as if insisting me to put on my motorcycle helmet, which i never would normally wear. My life was spared because of that.
In the hospital, I felt what I believed to be the presence of God, flooding the hospital room. It was to the point where even a single thought about God would make me begin weeping uncontrollably. I can't say that I've had such easy access to His presence in my lifetime.
However, in the hospital, I decided that when I recovered, I would go back into the world, once more. And so I did. This time, darker and deeper than before.
A year and a half goes by, and I meet a girl in Rhode Island. The way we met was as if supernatural coincidence set it up. (I'll spare the details but please take my word for it)… If anyone had met a person in this manner, and had the connection with the other person the way that we did, and they didn't know better.. they would think that God matched us up together. But I know what the voice of Jesus is like, and it was not Him orchestrating this meeting. I knew it was Satan.
Anyways, when I flew to see her a month later, we were staying together in a hotel for a week, doing nothing good.. when she went to take a shower. When I was sitting on the bed, I suddenly had a vision: I saw myself, with her. I saw in the vision, her distracting me... and hell was beneath us. I saw a large black arm rise out of hell, grab me, and pull me into hell. The vision was so profound and intense that it made my body physically jump, though I carried on in my life without paying any mind to it.
A year later, her and I broke up. I thought to myself, "well, at least the vision didn't come to pass." But, lo and behold; 6 month later, due to supernatural circumstance, we began speaking again, and ended up getting back together.
Well, my spirit man was constantly eating at me about this.. I could not shake the vision I had of me going to hell a year prior.
So I began to pray, more fervently than I have ever prayed before: With tears and screaming, I said "Jesus, if I'm going to end up fulfilling the vision by being with her, at least make it to where I know I'm on the way to hell without a shadow of a doubt!!"
The next morning I woke up to a text from my most radical Christian friend, who knows nothing about me. the text says the following message that I'm going to copy and paste:
"I felt God told me to anoint myself with oil and then to sit down and listen. I did so, and immediately I heard the word "friend". I continued to listen and set my heart upon Him, when I began to see a vision. It was you, walking behind a girl. I couldn't see her face at first, but only her back. She wore a long dress that followed behind her. She seemed to be young and beautiful. Delicacies like candy and color objects followed close to her.
I saw you and it seemed you were drawn to her, as if you wanted to be with her. You were attracted to her and had a desire to engage with her. You got close and even tried to touch her dress and even smell it; it seemed you would even taste it if you could.
The girl continued to walk with her back to me until I came closer to her front. I then saw her face and it looked like that of a living corpse, even a hideous insect. There was obvious evil and wickedness about her. She then turned to you and grabbed you and killed you in front of me. She left the scene and all I saw was your grave.
I was then taken to another vision in which I saw you with God. In this scene you had refused the woman and were drawn to the Lord. He showed you creation and brought you through mountains and valleys. You were both friends. He brought you before many people and you proclaimed the message of salvation to them. You were enraptured by Him and He with you.
In this scene I have just mentioned, you were consumed with love for God and it did not matter that you were single. Marriage was not even on your mind. You were fulfilled in your relationship with Jesus Christ. "
Terror struck my soul upon reading this text message. I contacted her and told her that we were over, and that I would never speak to her again. I also told her why. She was very understanding.. and it was deeply hurtful to both of us.
I, however, believe that I felt an absolute assurance from the Holy Ghost that I was a child of God at that point. I felt a peace beyond understanding, despite the immense pain, and breaking of my willpower this burdened me with.
The following 3 to 4 nights, I began pleading with God that He would allow me to be with her without it taking me to hell. I told God how much I loved her. I told God, "even if she isn't the best you have for me, I want to be with her. I love her." I talked to her about all of this and she ended up one night, saying a prayer to give her life to the Lord, and began taking it upon herself to read the word for hours on end, and pray. However, I was skeptical that it may have been a false conversion, just to get me back.
While I was seeking the answer.. I BELIEVE to have had the Lord say this to me... "I will allow you to marry her without it taking you to hell. However, if you do, you will never be able to fulfill the calling I have place upon your life."
I chose to marry her. It felt like I was doing the wrong thing, but I went through with it.
Now you're pretty much caught up to where I'm currently at.
What are your thoughts? Does Hebrews 6 describe the reason why I keep falling back into darkness, and just have not been able to truly repent?
Please, any advice is helpful. God bless.
My heart has been breaking for you as I've read your story. I can't tell you definitively what the Hebrews verse is saying. Like you, I've read it many times and have wondered.
Jesus said the only unforgivable sin is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit, which I understand to be prolonged rejection of the Holy Spirit's conviction of sin.... Several years ago, I was praying for my mother-in-law's salvation when the Holy Spirit stopped me and told me that it was too late. I was shocked. This had never happened to me before. God confirmed what He had said through other circumstances that I won't go into here.
What you said when you rejected God needs to be undone, and only He can show you how to do it. I'll be praying for you. I believe that there is hope for you.
God didn’t tell me not to pray for you.That's terrifying how God told you that it's too late for her. I am afraid that I've blasphemied the Holy Spirit because I struggled and gave into my lusts despite being convicted. Now I have no convictions anymore.
God didn’t tell me not to pray for you.
That's terrifying how God told you that it's too late for her. I am afraid that I've blasphemied the Holy Spirit because I struggled and gave into my lusts despite being convicted. Now I have no convictions anymore.
FYI I'm not OP, I am just another guy who is posting in this thread because this is something I obsess with every single day.
I think it isn't too late for OP. It's clear that he has God speaking to him and etc. so I believe he might've never been saved in the first place.
However I was truly born again and backslid. It's so sad that I am in a situation that I want to change but I cannot. I am stuck in a cage.
I see. One thing you need to understand about my mother-in-law is that she was very old. She spent her whole life in church hearing the Gospel without any true repentance. I had been praying for her for over 20 years.
You may not FEEL convicted; but lack of feelings could be due to a number of things, including depression.
If there was no hope and no way back for you, however, I don't think you'd be posting on a Christian forum, asking about forgiveness and scared it is too late for you. I think your heart would be so hardened that you didn't care, and might even be against God or cursing him.
It may be that the devil is trying to convince you there is no hope, so that you give up.
Satan would love you to give up, or focus so much on feelings of despair that you never move forward with God. Jesus has defeated Satan, and he called him a liar and a murderer. God loves you big time.
That was quite the amazing read. Thank you. Although, I don't see where you're drawing the confusion that I'm grieved and wrestling with my sin. I thought I indicated the opposite, actually. This is a serious problem for meHi there-
I am so glad you wrote in and I only regret that this couldn't be an actual conversation because this back-and-forth typing business is not ideal. As you read my response, please read it with all the warmth, affection and humor your can imagine, because that is the spirit in which it is intended. I know this issue probably feels heavy and oppressive, but if we were chatting over coffee you would hear the loving-kindness of God in His word. He's the God who knows you and that you can know.
To begin, I am confident that 1 John 5:10-11 provides context for all of these type of questions. "He who has the Son has life, he who does not have the Son of God does not have life". The righteousness of God comes solely through personal trust in the Father's unique Son, the exact representation of His Being (Hebrews 1:2-3). Christ came to rescue rebels, to seek and save those who are lost (John 3:17). He knows his sheep and no one can snatch them from his hand.
As "Sabertooth" indicated in his comments, the fact that you want to know God and are worried about not being able to indicates that your heart is not seared. Read Psalm 51, written by David after his adultery, conspiracy, murder, and collateral murder (all the soldiers that died when Joab pulled back from Uriah). In verse 17 he writes under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, " a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise".
As with any relationship, interpersonal trust with God can't be imparted by family or compelled by any other individual or group. You know that from your experience in your home.
If you do a study in the New Testament, "faith" and "belief" are not primarily about intellectual assent to some biblical doctrines or propositions. After all, as James says, "even the demons believe and shudder" (James 2:19). Just recognizing that someone exists does not mean you are in a love relationship with them. There is no such thing as trusting Jesus as your Savior and not as your Lord. He can't be your Savior if he is not your Lord. On the day of Judgement Jesus will say "I never knew you" to those who called him "Lord" and did works in his name (Matthew 7:21) This is all consistent with your experience in High School and your experience through Bible college.
The issue is: are you in a personal relationship with the only One that saves, trusting in all that he has said and done on your behalf, not as a list of facts but as descriptions of a real person who loves you and has acted in history while you were still a sinner (Romans 5:8)?
Regarding your intentional sin to "punish" God, it's not really any different than the younger son in Jesus's parable about the two brothers. Jesus uses that parable to shame the self-righteous pharisees by showing the overflowing kindness of generosity God has toward rebels who turn to him. Note that the son comes back because he believed 1) his father was generous and 2)would at least receive him as a worker. The father then completely blows the son away with his generosity by first unashamedly running to meet the son (a complete indignity in the Middle East) then clothing him and giving him his signet ring.
If I can simplify, when you trust someone in any relationship, you step in confidence based not on the unknown, but on the known--what their character is. It sounds like you are listening to lies: God won't or can't take you back, God's goodness and grace is limited by your feelings. Read Exodus 34:5-7. That is what Yahweh, the God revealed to Moses and revealed by Jesus says about himself. He is a free agent. As Jesus said, the Son gives life to whomever he wishes. He is not limited by your current limitations and inability. He has a perpetual stance toward you, until death, of openness and invitation. All is not lost. Take heart. The key question is do you believe him?
What sometimes gets called "walking by faith" is really living your life on the basis of what he says is true rather than what your personal experience tells you is true. Hebrews 11:6 says that there are two things necessary to please God: 1) you believe there is Someone there to know and be in a right relationship with and that 2) your persistent seeking WILL be rewarded with relationship to your Creator.
To put it another way, if you in your despair give up on the idea that God will be pleased as you seek him, then you are no longer "earnestly" or "persistently" seeking him. You have been lulled into a deception that only certain types of people who persistently seek will be rewarded, something He has never said.
It sounds like Hebrews 6 is of high significance to you but I would hold up that passage against the countless examples from both the Old and New testaments in which God says and shows his desire to show his loyal, steadfast love to rebels (1 Corinthians 13 is the classic explication of "agape" which John notes is Yahweh's nature in 1 John 4:8). Additionally, the numerous passages that indicate the New Covenant is persistent (Hebrews 8 quoting Jeremiah 31).
On a personal note, I am a father. Jesus tells me that human fathers, though we are evil, give good gifts to our children, but that God as THE Father is unmatchable. If one of my kids told me to drop dead, denouncing our family, and later was grieved at and came back, I would throw my arms around them in a heartbeat. It is not possible that I am more loving the God of Everything.
To wrap up, the proof is in the pudding: true fellowship with God in Christ through the Spirit results in a transformed life. I would go with your conclusion #1 about Hebrews 6 and then point out that your wrestling is a clear indication that your heart has not been hardened beyond feeling. There is only one way that you can not "live the calling of God in your life", and that is to reject his grace through Jesus. He is just as advertised: faithful and just to cleanse you of all unrighteousness- past, present and future. He WILL complete the work He has begun in you. Yes, you are actively involved in obedience, after all you are in an interpersonal relationship with God when you are adopted into his family (Read Ephesians 1), but you are to "work out your salvation...because it is God who works and will IN you to FULFILL His good purpose." (Philippians 2:12-13)
I hope that is helpful. I'm not saying your marriage will be easy, but I think you are making yourself the main character of the story rather than Yeshua, "God Saves". If you will trust the character of God, revealed in the Cross, and act on that trust by living the new life he has given you (Titus 3:3-7) you will walk in newness of life, not because of your ability but because of his ability and faithfulness. And by the way, as far as your wife goes, "Nothing will be impossible for God". He alone knows the story He is declaring in your life together?
With Affectionate and Confident Hope-
I'm careful about claiming as to whether or not God speaks to me. The times I say God spoke to me, I prayed for confirmation, and recieved it.I do not share your point of view for several reasons.jn7:24. You are welcome to your point of view. I do not believe every story posted as I have seen this kind of thing before.
In his own words he says...God was speaking directly to him, then he admits he was not sure it was the voice of God.
Hello again-That was quite the amazing read. Thank you. Although, I don't see where you're drawing the confusion that I'm grieved and wrestling with my sin. I thought I indicated the opposite, actually. This is a serious problem for me
Showing love and mercy to others should help him to believe that God has forgiven him, despite hisCan you expand on the last paragraph? Why you think that would prove beneficial to show love and mercy?
We cannot be certain of all the benefits of showing love and mercy to others. First though, I suspect that it would be easier to accept God's mercy, if one is showing mercy to others. (Note, I did not say receive, I said accept.) Now, a second possible benefit could accrue in the afterlife. If Catholics are correct and there is a Purgatory, then showing love and mercy to others could reduce or erase any negative effects that one must experience, due to one's sins, before moving on to Heaven. Note, I am not endorsing Purgatory. I am just answering your question. Now, even if Catholics are wrong and there is no Purgatory, most all Christians believe that the extent of our reward in Heaven is impacted by how we live our life on Earth. Hence, showing love and mercy to others, especially on an ongoing basis, should bring one a better reward in the next life or at least one would hope so.Can you expand on the last paragraph? Why you think that would prove beneficial to show love and mercy?
FYI I'm not OP, I am just another guy who is posting in this thread because this is something I obsess with every single day.
I think it isn't too late for OP. It's clear that he has God speaking to him and etc. so I believe he might've never been saved in the first place.
However I was truly born again and backslid. It's so sad that I am in a situation that I want to change but I cannot. I am stuck in a cage.
As far as you thinking I'm trolling these people, I'm not. If I was, I wouldn't have spent 2 hours going into this amount of detail. I would also have tried to makt it funnier if I was pulling everyone's leg. But all of this, before Jesus Christ, is absolutely true.
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