How can creationists explain the human appendix?

[Audacious]

The only explanation that makes sense is for the appendix to be a vestigial organ that has become useless through evolution (note that evolution does not imply improvement -- just change).

It's got no perceivable use and is thought to be significantly smaller than its original size; also, our immune system occasionally gives us appendicitis, causing the appendix to inflame and often burst, which also often results in death.

Which brings the question: If God specifically crafted the human race without involvement of evolution, why did He include the appendix?

Also, why would He put a ticking time bomb in our bodies with no use except that of painful affliction or death?

James

 

[Smidlee]

"The appendix, they said, is a safe haven where good bacteria could hang out until they were needed to repopulate the gut after a nasty case of diarrhea, for example."
Evolution Of The Human Appendix: A Biological 'Remnant' No More

Just because you don't know the use of something doesn't mean it doesn't have a purpose. Of course this article still preach evolution dogma.

 

[BeforeTheFoundation]

@Smidlee To my knowledge, that theory has not gained scientific support. Most biologists and doctors still believe that it is a vestigial organ. Besides, it is not the only vestigial component of the human body, it is just the classic example.

 

[Papias]

Plus, Smidlee, it is common for make the mistake that "vestigial" means "useless". That's false. "Vestigial" means that it is an evolutionary leftover that has lost all or most of it's original function, though may maintain a little left or have some minor, new role. "Vestigial" doesn't mean "useless", though many are indeed useless.

The appendix is a good example of this, and the fact that there are literally millions of people who have had their appendix removed and are fine shows how it serves no significant function today. Even if it is sometimes useful in perservering gut bacteria (which repopulates naturally anyway, even without the appendix), that's hardly justification for such a stupid and often life-threatening design. Just the other week I had a course of anti-biotics, which killed all bacteria in my body, including in my appendix. Repopulation of the gut with normal bacterial was rapid and non-problematic simply through eating. No bacteria came from my appendix - they had been killed there just as everywhere else by the antibiotic.

There are also tons of other vestigial features and organs in both humans and other animals. Ostrich wings, our hair muscles ("goosebumps"), embryonic teeth and hind limbs in whales, and many more, not to mention all the vestigial DNA, make vestigiality obvious.

Papias

 

[miamited]

hi papias,

It's quite simple. It's how God created the human body.

I don't know why He created wasps, but I'm confident that they serve a useful purpose in His creation. I don't know why He made so many and varied bugs in the insect world, but I'm assured that it's all to keep everything rolling along.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

 

[Papias]

miamited wrote:

hi papias,

It's quite simple. It's how God created the human body.

I don't know why He created wasps, but I'm confident that they serve a useful purpose in His creation. I don't know why He made so many and varied bugs in the insect world, but I'm assured that it's all to keep everything rolling along.

Oh, I see. So my friends gallstones-

It's quite simple. It's how God created the human body.

I don't know why He created infectious bacteria, but I'm confident that they serve a useful purpose in His creation, and shouldn't be killed with antibiotics. We need to let people just die when infected. I don't know why He made such terrible pain go with childbirth, but I'm assured that it's all to keep everything rolling along, so it's a sin to administer pain relief for mothers. I don't know why he made our testicles unable to be turned off at will, so he must not want us to get vasectomies, which appear to be clearly sinful. Wisdom teeth are best left alone, and so on through so much of our modern medicine......

Overall, I'm pretty happy that doctors don't think like ted does, and that scientists and doctors in the past centuries years didn't either. Our lives would be terrible. With Christians going around saying things like that previous post, is it any surprise that people in all advanced countries are fleeing Christianity in droves?

In Christ-

Papias

 

[athenken]

Mine pretty much helped organize all of my organs. But, since I had mine taken out over ten years ago I have no idea where anything is.

 

[Audacious]

hi papias,

It's quite simple. It's how God created the human body.

I don't know why He created wasps, but I'm confident that they serve a useful purpose in His creation. I don't know why He made so many and varied bugs in the insect world, but I'm assured that it's all to keep everything rolling along.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

*nod* So God put what is effectively an organ which can burst and kill you at any time thanks to appendicitis because 'oh I don't know but I trust Him'?

If you take a look at Jesus, He seemed to dislike the fact of afflictions and had sympathy and compassion for those of us who have them (not that this means that we should be utilitarians or sacrifice morality to soothe an affliction). I'm pretty sure God has a similar attitude and wouldn't put a ticking time bomb in us.

Which is why I blame evolution as a theistic evolutionist. Thankfully, this situation will probably solve itself over time and the appendix will just cease to be a part of a normal person's body. *shrug*

For now, we have the practice of modern medicine. Wonderful, wonderful modern medicine. <3

James

 

[Keachian]

hi papias,

It's quite simple. It's how God created the human body.

I don't know why He created wasps, but I'm confident that they serve a useful purpose in His creation. I don't know why He made so many and varied bugs in the insect world, but I'm assured that it's all to keep everything rolling along.

God bless you.
In Christ, Ted

I'm not sure everything has to have a useful purpose, God takes glory in his creation just doing things:

O Lord, how manifold are your works!
In wisdom have you made them all;
the earth is full of your creatures.
Here is the sea, great and wide,
which teems with creatures innumerable,
living things both small and great.
There go the ships,
and Leviathan, which you formed to play in it

 

[mark kennedy]

The only explanation that makes sense is for the appendix to be a vestigial organ that has become useless through evolution (note that evolution does not imply improvement -- just change).

It's got no perceivable use and is thought to be significantly smaller than its original size; also, our immune system occasionally gives us appendicitis, causing the appendix to inflame and often burst, which also often results in death.

Dunno, if we evolved our brain from that of apes then why do changes in brain related genes invariably result in disease and disorder. See, it's easy, anyone can ask perplexing questions.

Which brings the question: If God specifically crafted the human race without involvement of evolution, why did He include the appendix?

What? Why did God create man with an organ you don't understand? Dunno, if we are evolving so much then why do genomes have so many repair mechanisms and no gene reprogramming mechanisms? If you want to keep trading silly questions I can do this all day.

Also, why would He put a ticking time bomb in our bodies with no use except that of painful affliction or death?

James

A quick google search yielded this:

However the researchers say sometimes the bacteria die off or are purged from the intestines as in diseases such as cholera or dysentery.

According to the researchers, the appendix's job is to "reboot" the digestive system when that happens with the bacteria safely harbored in the appendix.

What does the appendix do? finally an answer!​

Now a question for you. If God is not Creator in the sense that Moses meant then what does the passage of Scripture mean?

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not. (John 1:1-5)​

If God didn't create the universe because the Big Bang did it. If God didn't create the earth because the principles of motion did it. If God didn't create man because descent with modification by means of natural selection did it then what exactly did God create 'In the Beginning'?

Have a nice day
Mark

 

[1234321]

The only explanation that makes sense is for the appendix to be a vestigial organ that has become useless through evolution (note that evolution does not imply improvement -- just change).

It's got no perceivable use and is thought to be significantly smaller than its original size; also, our immune system occasionally gives us appendicitis, causing the appendix to inflame and often burst, which also often results in death.

Which brings the question: If God specifically crafted the human race without involvement of evolution, why did He include the appendix?

Also, why would He put a ticking time bomb in our bodies with no use except that of painful affliction or death?

James

Maybe it isn't His fault - maybe it is our fault. Appendicitis occurs in 6%-7% of people in the U.S. and Europe - a very small percentage. What do these regions have in common?

Technology
Similar Diet
Exposure to Potential Harmful Radiation and Chemicals
Marginal to Moderate Sedentary Lifestyles
Pharmaceuticals


I will just touch on these five for now. Technology - anything from steam engines to iPads - can have harmful effects on the body that doctors do not fully understand yet. Steam engine technology is at the bottom, but residual coal derivatives can pollute the body. WIFI technology, halogen technology, radiology in hospitals, and other modern technologies have damaging effects on the body, ranging from decreased immunity to cancer or death. Since no one knows what the appendix is for, no one knows how these things affect the appendix. However, if these things affect other vital organs (as they do,) we cannot know for certain if they don't not affect the appendix, or hormones that derive and feed the appendix.

Diet is important when discussing the appendix, which is theorized to be a storehouse for good bacteria. Consider a day without technology such as refrigeration, stoves, microwaves and ovens. When things were usually eaten on the go, roasted over fire, or eaten raw, the appendix could have served its theorized purpose of fighting fire with fire - sending good bacteria into the intestine to seek and destroy harmful bacteria, or break down tough foods. Today, we destroy most harmful bacteria by our modern cooking methods (washing with running water, boiling, cooking, etc.) So, of course the appendix could be thought to be a useless appendage given our lifestyle today. Moreover, the overproduction and storage of good bacteria (which isn't doing its job to fight other bad bacteria) could cause inflammation and infection. It is still bacteria, and if the body sees that something is unbalanced, it buffers the imbalance by attacking it, causing inflammation.

Radiation and chemicals cause a plethora of problems, especially for the digestive system (which the appendix is part of.)


Sedentary lifestyles also cause problems for the digestive and endocrine system.

Pharmaceuticals cause a myriad of problems, with harmful side-effects (many of which affect the digestive and cardiovascular system, since a pill or drug is often ingested, dissolved and carried through the bloodstream.)


I don't believe God put a ticking time bomb in us with the appendix. I think He knew exactly what He was doing, especially considering that Adam and Eve did not have the "luxuries" of even Ancient Egypt. If we were meant to be nomadic people living off the land (eating unwashed fruits, berries, beans, flowers, unfiltered water from streams where animals traverse, [semi-raw or moderately] cooked meats, etc.,) then the appendix (by the theory that it was a storehouse for good bacteria) would most certainly serve its purpose. Appendectomies may be needed for the minority that have infected appendices, but saying it is useless is like saying a pinky or pinky toe is useless because we don't need it (in our opinion.) Certainly, these appendages serve some purpose that we are unaware of, and it would be a mistake to start removing God-given body parts that we think are useless.

 

[sk8Joyful]

The only explanation that makes sense is for the appendix

It's got no perceivable use

Just because you don't, yet, have developed your perceptive skills, doesn't mean millions of things do not have a purpose.

(Who cares what doctors spout. They're not the definitive authority on anything
as consequences in following them daily sadly demonstrates.)

Your challenge: develop your God-granted perception, to better glimpse why God did, what He wisely does

 

[1234321]

Just because you don't, yet, have developed your perceptive skills, doesn't mean millions of things do not have a purpose.

(Who cares what doctors spout. They're not the definitive authority on anything
as consequences in following them daily sadly demonstrates.)

Your challenge: develop your God-granted perception, to better glimpse why God did, what He wisely does

Yea, scientist and doctor really aren't authorities on knowledge and truth. In the bible, Christ healed a woman with a condition of the blood, but she went to many doctors who didn't know the problem, and made her condition worse. It still happens today.

 

[sk8Joyful]

This post was moved

 

[Keachian]

I worked in medicine for decades; it has it's place in real Life-&-death emergencies, so
Compassionate & Skilled doctors for such can be a blessing.

But I was also raised, in a mountainous country, where
that whole sorry deterioration called "chronic"-anything was an UNknown.
Only after us kids had innoculations Force-injected
into us, were we dependably sick........ ; otherwise well.

I'm pretty sure you can't blame the godlessness/medical health of a society on innoculations.

Our society functioned well too:
1. No abortions, nor orphanage: kids were cared for.

Yep, that sure has to do with us being injected with drugs and not a loosing of morals around sex that resulted in children being conceived out of wedlock and therefore not really being wanted, though orphanage, what the hey lets rewrite church history which has predominantly had Christians/the Church running such things as orphanages, hostels and the like and say that that didn't happen, Lord knows that quite often people play far too loosey goosey with history anyway.

2. No divorce, because people loved one another as Life-companions.

Again this is more to do with loosing of morals around sex than about injections, more specifically to do with getting what 'I' want out of things rather than serving the other person in the relationship.

3. No Nursing-homes, nor hospice: families stayed together.

And when that isn't an option, ie Widows or infirm old with no living children? Again let's rewrite history and say that that sort of thing didn't happen and that the Church didn't step in.

4. No drug-abuse. What in heck are drugs ?
5. Zero crime rate: no suicide, & no murder.

Again totally nothing to do with inoculations and more to do with a 'me, me, me' mentality.

6. Every family grew their own food: Veggies, Fruits, Eggs, bunnies, chickens, cows, & some bread. -
No herbicides, no pesticides, no pasteurization, no food poisoning

No ones stopping you from doing this, in fact I think quite a lot of people encourage it but oh wait they're extremist lefties don't want to associate with them.

what is a 'disease'??

Oh, I don't know, how about small-pox which we've eliminated through inoculations, or Polio which we are in the process of eliminating, which again is done through oh I don't know immunisation and inoculations

7. One single doctor in the whole town, who's he?

An indispensable member of society?

8. Us children learned thru play, and adults worked diligently.

There's nothing stopping you from doing this.

9. Hospital FAR away: so most people survived on their own, or had to last on the loong ride there.

I thought you said that there was no disease?

10. The USA as a whole lived much like this also, until about 1960.
Unfortunately, ever since it's "sophisticatedly modernized": it's gone to hell,

I don't really think that the degradation of morals has anything to do with the modernisation of a country. Sure they've seemed to go hand in hand but really that's just because when your country "modernised" it also decided that morality was for the weak.

until now Sanity is scarcely found. And the relative peace & joy & health we enjoyed, is increasingly rare.

Well peace, joy and sanity are kind of hard to come by in a post-911 society, hardly the work of inoculations, however health is something that rests on your own shoulders, in many ways the onus on the individual to pay for their own health doesn't work in my opinion as is demonstrated by your system, your society suffers for it.

 

[sk8Joyful]

progmonk, you have totally mis-represented my post.
A feat of which you seem to be also sadly proud.

In order to understand, are U still able to ask questions...
or is that beyond you now too?

 

[Theofane]

How can creationists explain the human appendix?

If you have faith in God, why trouble yourself with such things? Faith means being comfortable with not having the answer to every question under the sun. If God knows, I don't need to.

 

[1234321]

I worked in medicine for decades; it has it's place in real Life-&-death emergencies, so
Compassionate & Skilled doctors for such can be a blessing.

I agree, I am a scientist, so I understand what responsible science and medicine can accomplish. I will definitely give credit where credit is do, because it is a blessing to have talents like healing or caring for another person (for the person with the talent, and the person receiving it.) I just think people (and medical/scientific personalities) tend to think that science is synonymous with truth, and medicine is synonymous with longevity.

But I was also raised, in a mountainous country, where
that whole sorry deterioration called "chronic"-anything was an UNknown.
Only after us kids had innoculations Force-injected
into us, were we dependably sick........ ; otherwise well.

Our society functioned well too:
1. No abortions, nor orphanage: kids were cared for.
2. No divorce, because people loved one another as Life-companions.
3. No Nursing-homes, nor hospice: families stayed together.
4. No drug-abuse. What in heck are drugs ?
5. Zero crime rate: no suicide, & no murder.
6. Every family grew their own food: Veggies, Fruits, Eggs, bunnies, chickens, cows, & some bread. -
No herbicides, no pesticides, no pasteurization, no food poisoning, & what is a 'disease'??
7. One single doctor in the whole town, who's he?
8. Us children learned thru play, and adults worked diligently.
9. Hospital FAR away: so most people survived on their own, or had to last on the loong ride there.
10. The USA as a whole lived much like this also, until about 1960.
Unfortunately, ever since it's "sophisticatedly modernized": it's gone to hell,
until now Sanity is scarcely found. And the relative peace & joy & health we enjoyed, is increasingly rare.

O_O WHERE WAS THIS? WHAT PLANET? WHAT DIMENSION?

 

[Papias]

mark, please consider reading the thread before posting. Your point you posted had already been posted, in post #2, and was shown to be incorrect in post #4.

Ska8 wrote:

10. The USA as a whole lived much like this also, until about 1960.
Unfortunately, ever since it's "sophisticatedly modernized": it's gone to hell,

Wow, what a picture you paint of the society of the United States in years past. Let's take a look at you points:

Our society functioned well too:
1. No abortions, nor orphanage: kids were cared for.

Are you kidding me? Studies have shown that there were literally millions of abortions then - and that abortion rates are roughly the same whether it is legal or not - just that when illegal, abortions are much more dangerous, often resultsing in the death of the woman. If you'd like to discuss abortion more, I suggest you take it to the appropriate forum.

Orphanages were common, busy, and often abusive. Orphanages

2. No divorce, because people loved one another as Life-companions.

What?? Abuse of women was more common, and the woman had no legal recouse or escape. Until recently, it was legal for a man to repeatedly rape his wife, because she was his "property". Allowing divorce greatly helped the lives of women in particular.

3. No Nursing-homes, nor hospice: families stayed together.

Really? Do you think elder abuse was really lower without nursing homes and hospices?

4. No drug-abuse. What in heck are drugs ?

The choice of which drugs to abuse has shifted, but overall abuse rates have declined since the 1700's. They have always been, and still are, dominated by alcohol, with today's rates less than half of the rates in the early 1800s. Drinking in America: A History

5. Zero crime rate: no suicide, & no murder.

What planet are you on? There has always been crime, and murder rates have not overall increased in the past few centuries. In fact, they are at about half of what they were in the 1930's here in America. FBI — Table 1 For longer term trends, please read "the better angels of our nature" by Pinker, who's actually done research, with numbers. That shows that murder rates have been decreasing for at least 1000 years.

6. Every family grew their own food: Veggies, Fruits, Eggs, bunnies, chickens, cows, & some bread. -

Have you ever worked on a farm? It's often 12-14 hours of hard work a day to produce food. Today we've replaced that backbreaking labor with efficient farms, and we only need to work a few hours to earn the money for food. Are you suggesting that hours and hours of backbreaking labor is preferable to inexpensive and convenient food?

No herbicides, no pesticides, no pasteurization, no food poisoning, & what is a 'disease'??

No dieseases in the past? You've got to be kidding me. No food poisoning in the past? What? And you obviously are unfamiliar with the "Green revolution", which has caused millions of people to be fed well. Inform yourself - google it.

7. One single doctor in the whole town, who's he?

Are you suggesting that access to medical care has gotten worse? Come on.

8. Us children learned thru play, and adults worked diligently.

And our education and literacy levels have increased greatly. Do you have a problem with kids being educated and literate? In 1870, 20% were illiterate, and by 1980, that had dropped to a few percent.
National Assessment of Adult Literacy (NAAL) - 120 Years of Literacy

9. Hospital FAR away: so most people survived on their own, or had to last on the loong ride there.

Again, are you saying that you want people to have no access to medical care? Are you saying it's a good thing that the infirm just die?

Overally, your picture of some idyllic past is at odds with the facts again and again. To think that things were perfect, with no crime, disease, or hunger in the past is nothing short of delusional. I hope you take the time to learn more about what difficulties our great - great grandparents had to struggle with to help us live today. Appreciating their efforts and how far we've come is only fair.

Papias

 

[good brother]

*nod* So God put what is effectively an organ which can burst and kill you at any time thanks to appendicitis because 'oh I don't know but I trust Him'?

James

God also put a heart in the middle of our chest that could go into cardiac arrest at any moment and kill us. He also put a brain in our skulls that could have an aneurysm at any moment and kill us. He also put miles of veins and arteries that could clog at any time and kill us. He also put intestines in us that could rupture and kill us at any time. He also put limbs that could get stuck in doors and ripped from our bodies causing us extreme pain at any moment. He also gave us a mouth that could swallow harmful stuff at any moment and kill us. He also gave us eardrums that have limitations on them so that if we heard a noise that was greater than our natural threshold, those eardrums could rupture and cause us great amounts of pain and loss of equilibrium. He also...

Yes, I know my argument is ridiculous, but then so is yours. I only said all those things to show you that there are hypothetically many parts of our bodies that could kill us at any moment, and yet we don't complain about them because we understand their utility. We don't fully understand the appendix, but that hardly makes it a "vestigial organ" because we don't understand it. If that were the case, why do we have two kidneys, two lungs, six extra fingers (T Rex only had two on each hand and he seemed to do okay), and other body parts unecessary to live? We understand their usefulness.

There are many parts of the human body we don't fully understand, that doesn't mean we should resign those misunderstood (or completely un-understood) parts to some category of "vestigial organs".


In Christ, GB