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Oh, you're in good company with me then. You wouldn't believe how many people have attempted to tell me what I believe. Quite a few atheists among that crowd.
My view is that even the militant atheist affirms the concept of God by talking about it.
But I think we are called to be patient with the atheist. Perhaps we can even say that we don't necessarily believe in the same God that he disbelieves in either.
Do you believe the Bible?
Does this also apply to the tooth-fairy?
Which one (the Orthodox bible has more books than 66), which interpretation, Sola Scriptura or not, literal, allegorical, combination of the two, etcetera... Anyone who tells me what I believe is usually laboring under the delusion they've got it all figured out. Generally, they don't.
I do get amused with the Sola Scriptura atheists though.
No, I think that they are in different categories altogether. In fact, the holy mystery cannot be restricted to categories or by any system of coordinates. But why the need for sarcasm? I already get that you are an atheist. What I was suggesting is that even atheists have preconceptions about the God they don't believe in. It is very likely that I don't believe in the God that you don't believe in either.
But is there a book that defines for you what you believe?
For beginners I would recommend a Christian to note the attitude of anti-theism as found in attitudes of Friedrich Nietzsche and the attitude of atheism. Most people who go by the title atheist are actually anti-theist who hold strong opposition towards religion of all kind and especially Christianity as it is the most common faith found in America which is the cesspool most attributed to the breeding of atheistic ideology.
I agree. But that's a long walk from believing in it. I even have a pet god theory that I enjoy and would even say I want to believe in. But I don't.
and its not sarcasm, its argument by comparison.
If you're claiming that God does not exist, you're making a knowledge claim that requires justification. If you're simply stating the condition of your mind - that you have no belief in God - then I'm obliged to respond with, "So what?" Dogs and cats have no belief in God, either.I do not need justification not to believe in God. I need justification to believe in it.
What difference does this make to the fact that negative assertions are often proved?As well, negative, universally-quantified statements can often be proven (and are). For example, a negative statement such as, "There are no deaf piano tuners," can be made quite reasonably and, for obvious reasons, is clearly true. In many instances where I make "all" or "none" statements about a particular domain, I can prove a negative. "No circle has right angles," is another example. I can look at all the circles I have within the domain of my knowledge and see that none of them has a right angle. It is therefore reasonable to assert that all circles have the same geometry. And so on. Clearly, then, it is not true that one cannot prove a negative statement.Yes, but these are negatives because of definitions. A circle by definition cannot have angles, or else it is not a circle. You don't prove that, you define it that way.
"I have no belief in God," is not an argument. You're simply stating the condition of your thinking as it relates to the subject of God. It is of no greater value in a discussion about God than declaring that a hamster has no belief in God. Essentially, you are saying you have no opinion on the matter of God. Dr. Craig explains:Finally, the atheist's declaration that atheism is simply the absence of any belief about God amounts to a kind of psychological report on the state of the atheist's mind that trivializes the atheist's position. Dr William Lane Craig writes,
Don't care, because that's all I intend on arguing. I am not arguing the state of God, but only the state of my own belief or lack thereof. You believe I have to hold a position because you need me to be your enemy to fight back against. I have no interest in arguing for the non-existence of God, only to explain why I don't believe.
How so?It's not a view unto itself, it's a category.
Oh please, wise and powerful Christian: Tell me more about my own views, and how I wrong I am about them. It must feel good to stand above me and tell me that you know me better than I do, without knowing anything at all. Why, almost God-like.
No. The books that make up the bible are only a part of what comprises Holy Tradition. The Church defines what I believe.
But this is interesting- do you think you have the right to tell me what I believe- yet you get upset when someone does it to you?
If you're claiming that God does not exist, you're making a knowledge claim that requires justification. If you're simply stating the condition of your mind - that you have no belief in God - then I'm obliged to respond with, "So what?" Dogs and cats have no belief in God, either.
How so?
Actually, I was writing to Munising, not you.
Selah.
If A plus B is equal to C, could it also be true that C minus B is NOT equal to A?How can you be sure that logic is the ultimate measure to tell what is true and real and what is not?
Nothing false about it. Do you believe Bigfoot exists? Probably not. Is the burden of proof upon you to show Bigfoot doesn't exist? Or is the burden of proof upon those who are positing that Bigfoot does exist?This is exactly what I was talking about. This is a classic atheist response! And it is false. Essentially, the atheist who asserts that he doesn't have to prove a negative, that he doesn't have to prove God doesn't exist, is saying that he doesn't have to offer any justification for his position. But if the atheist has no justification for his position, or is unwilling to offer any, then why should anyone give it any heed?
Is the agnostic a Christian or an Atheist?If we have three people - a Christian, an atheist, and a seeking agnostic - and the Christian offers proof of God's existence to the agnostic but the atheist responds to the agnostic with "I don't have to offer justification of my view that God doesn't exist. One cannot prove a negative," who do you think has properly justified their viewpoint? Certainly not the atheist!
If I posit that there are a million purple unicorns roaming the plains of western Kansas, can you prove that's not true?As well, negative, universally-quantified statements can often be proven (and are). For example, a negative statement such as, "There are no deaf piano tuners," can be made quite reasonably and, for obvious reasons, is clearly true. In many instances where I make "all" or "none" statements about a particular domain, I can prove a negative. "No circle has right angles," is another example. I can look at all the circles I have within the domain of my knowledge and see that none of them has a right angle. It is therefore reasonable to assert that all circles have the same geometry. And so on. Clearly, then, it is not true that one cannot prove a negative statement.
That is true, your cat Muff and all human babies - having no belief that a god exists - would be atheists. (unless 'atheist' applies only to humans).Finally, the atheist's declaration that atheism is simply the absence of any belief about God amounts to a kind of psychological report on the state of the atheist's mind that trivializes the atheist's position. Dr William Lane Craig writes,
"Such a re-definition of the word atheist trivializes the claim of the presumption of atheism, for on this definition, atheism ceases to be a view. It is merely a psychological state which is shared by people who hold various views or no view at all. On this re-definition, even babies, who hold no opinion at all on the matter, count as atheists! In fact, our cat Muff counts as an atheist on this definition, since she has (to my knowledge) no belief in God."
Read more: Definition of atheism | Reasonable Faith
What do you think my viewpoint is? Do you think it is something other than "I don't hold the belief that a god exists"? If so, what do you think it is?If this is what you really believe, then I have to tell you that you don't understand your own viewpoint. In fact, atheism necessarily entails these four points. They arise unavoidably from (especially naturalistic) atheism. That you don't realize this suggests you have a very superficial grasp of what it means to be an atheist.
Selah.
And most atheists are "called" to be patient with Christians. Most of us are willing to accept that a god exists if you can provide evidence. But the evidence has not been forthcoming.My view is that even the militant atheist affirms the concept of God by talking about it.
But I think we are called to be patient with the atheist. Perhaps we can even say that we don't necessarily believe in the same God that he disbelieves in either.
It's probably the case that you don't believe in all but one of the Gods which atheists don't believe in.No, I think that they are in different categories altogether. In fact, the holy mystery cannot be restricted to categories or by any system of coordinates. But why the need for sarcasm? I already get that you are an atheist. What I was suggesting is that even atheists have preconceptions about the God they don't believe in. It is very likely that I don't believe in the God that you don't believe in either.
Your first sentence is part of a claim often used to show that Christians aren't that far removed from atheists. In truth, you only need to believe in one God to be a theist, and if you believed in many gods you couldn't be a Christian.It's probably the case that you don't believe in all but one of the Gods which atheists don't believe in.
Our preconceptions of what God is come from the claims Christians have made. We don't come up with our own preconceptions.
With respect to being able to hold a belief that something exists, the tooth fairy and God are in the same category. One can either hold a belief that the tooth fairy exists or one can fail to hold a belief that the tooth fairy exists. The same goes for God.
No. But clearly the church does. I merely have to inquire with them to know what you believe, even if you are not aware of it.
Atheists tend not to work the same way. Usually we create our own structure.
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