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How and why we keep the Sabbath holy...

Hupomone10

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Just a different perspective to consider...

“Contrary to the claims of some today, Christians are not required to worship on the Sabbath day. It, like the other Old Covenant holy days Paul mentions, is not binding under the New Covenant. There is convincing evidence for that in Scripture.

First, the Sabbath was the sign to Israel of the Old Covenant (Ex. 31:16-17; Neh. 9:14; Ezek. 20:12).

Exodus 31:16-17 The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.'"

Nehemiah 9:14 You made known to them your holy Sabbath and gave them commands, decrees and laws through your servant Moses.

Ezekiel 20:12 Also I gave them (the Israelites) my Sabbaths as a sign between us, so they would know that I the LORD made them holy.


Because we are now under the New Covenant (Heb. 8), we are no longer required to keep the sign of the Old Covenant.

Second, the New Testament nowhere commands Christians to observe the Sabbath.

Third, in our only glimpse of an early church worship service in the New Testament, we find the church meeting on Sunday, the first day of the week (Acts 20:7).

Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.

Fourth, we find no hint in the Old Testament that God expected the Gentile nations to observe the Sabbath, nor are they ever condemned for failing to do so. That is certainly strange if He expected all peoples to observe the Sabbath.

Fifth, there is no evidence of anyone’s keeping the Sabbath before the time of Moses, nor are there any commands to keep the Sabbath before the giving of the law at Mount Sinai.

Sixth, the Jerusalem Council did not impose Sabbath keeping on the Gentile believers (Acts 15) .

Seventh, Paul warned the Gentiles about many different sins in his epistles, but never about breaking the Sabbath.

Eighth, Paul rebuked the Galatians for thinking God expected them to observe special days (including the Sabbath) (Gal. 4:10-11).

Gal. 4:10-11 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

Col. 2:16-17 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.
(Sabbath day is singular; according to Greek scholars the KJV incorrectly translated it as plural in “an effort to transliterate the Aramaic sabbathah.” -A. T. Robertson, noted Greek scholar, and eminent Baptist scholar and professor). These (including the Sabbath) are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Ninth, Paul taught that keeping the Sabbath was a matter of Christian liberty (Rom. 14:5).

Romans 14:5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

Tenth, the early church fathers, from Ignatius to Augustine, taught that the Old Testament Sabbath had been abolished and that the first day of the week (Sunday) was the day when Christians should meet for worship. That disproves the claim of some that Sunday worship was not instituted until the fourth century.

- John MacArthur, Colossians & Philemon New Testament Commentary

Comments to support #10 can be included upon request

God bless,

H.


 
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k4c

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Just a different perspective to consider...

“Contrary to the claims of some today, Christians are not required to worship on the Sabbath day. It, like the other Old Covenant holy days Paul mentions, is not binding under the New Covenant. There is convincing evidence for that in Scripture.

First, the Sabbath was the sign to Israel of the Old Covenant (Ex. 31:16-17; Neh. 9:14; Ezek. 20:12).

Exodus 31:16-17 The Israelites are to observe the Sabbath, celebrating it for the generations to come as a lasting covenant. It will be a sign between me and the Israelites forever, for in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, and on the seventh day he abstained from work and rested.'"

Nehemiah 9:14 You made known to them your holy Sabbath and gave them commands, decrees and laws through your servant Moses.

Ezekiel 20:12 Also I gave them (the Israelites) my Sabbaths as a sign between us, so they would know that I the LORD made them holy.

Because we are now under the New Covenant (Heb. 8), we are no longer required to keep the sign of the Old Covenant.

Second, the New Testament nowhere commands Christians to observe the Sabbath.

Third, in our only glimpse of an early church worship service in the New Testament, we find the church meeting on Sunday, the first day of the week (Acts 20:7).

Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight.

Fourth, we find no hint in the Old Testament that God expected the Gentile nations to observe the Sabbath, nor are they ever condemned for failing to do so. That is certainly strange if He expected all peoples to observe the Sabbath.

Fifth, there is no evidence of anyone’s keeping the Sabbath before the time of Moses, nor are there any commands to keep the Sabbath before the giving of the law at Mount Sinai.

Sixth, the Jerusalem Council did not impose Sabbath keeping on the Gentile believers (Acts 15) .

Seventh, Paul warned the Gentiles about many different sins in his epistles, but never about breaking the Sabbath.

Eighth, Paul rebuked the Galatians for thinking God expected them to observe special days (including the Sabbath) (Gal. 4:10-11).

Gal. 4:10-11 You are observing special days and months and seasons and years! I fear for you, that somehow I have wasted my efforts on you.

Col. 2:16-17 Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day. (Sabbath day is singular; according to Greek scholars the KJV incorrectly translated it as plural in “an effort to transliterate the Aramaic sabbathah.” -A. T. Robertson, noted Greek scholar, and eminent Baptist scholar and professor). These (including the Sabbath) are a shadow of the things that were to come; the reality, however, is found in Christ.

Ninth, Paul taught that keeping the Sabbath was a matter of Christian liberty (Rom. 14:5).

Romans 14:5 One man considers one day more sacred than another; another man considers every day alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind.

Tenth, the early church fathers, from Ignatius to Augustine, taught that the Old Testament Sabbath had been abolished and that the first day of the week (Sunday) was the day when Christians should meet for worship. That disproves the claim of some that Sunday worship was not instituted until the fourth century.

- John MacArthur, Colossians & Philemon New Testament Commentary

Comments to support #10 can be included upon request

God bless,

H.

The seventh day was holy and sanctified before it was used as a sign.

God kept the Sabbath before the time of Moses.

You yourself said the Sabbath is everlasting so it's still a blessed and sanctifed day even today.

Your post is a perfect example of how delusion works to lead people away from the truth. It's subtle and flavored with truth but the main ingredient is the leaven of delusion which leavens the whole lump.

One, and only one, good reason why the Sabbath is to be remembered is...love.

The seventh day Sabbath was created for mankind as something very good but to remember it for any other reason outside of a love relationship with God is pointless for carnal man and meaningless to God.

Two reasons why people don't keep the Sabbath holy.

1. They don't love God.

2. They don't believe God.
 
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Hupomone10

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Two reasons why people don't keep the Sabbath holy.

1. They don't love God.

2. They don't believe God.
Three reasons why Christians don't worship on the Sabbath:

1. They love God and His Son, and worship Him
2. They believe God when He says through the Apostles that they are no longer under that yoke.
3. Therefore, they believe the whole counsel of God.

One reason people post threads in a congregational forum continuously over and over about one issue, such as the Sabbath:
1. It's an obsession.

I'm curious. Can you please show me where Jesus says Saturday is the day on which we should worship. Or for that matter, where He said that the Sabbath is the day we should worship?

Notice that I said "worship". In your above oft-repeated post, you are inferring that we are wrong for worshiping on the Lord's day, the 1st, Sunday, rather than on the Sabbath or the 7th day. So there must be multiple references by Jesus to worshiping on the 7th and that we should worship on the 7th; please show them, quotes by Jesus.

But they must be quotes dealing with worship, rather than with honoring or reverencing or not working on said Sabbath...

...Jesus honored the Sabbath, but nowhere did He say that one should worship on the Sabbath. This was added by tradition of men, not from command of God.

If you get really frustrated at the lack of quotes from Jesus, I will entertain quotes from the O.T., since sabbath worshipers place themselves under the Mosaic Law anyway. However, you may find as I did, that we are told only to keep it holy and to rest on it performing no work, no command to worship on it.
 
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k4c

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Hupomone10 Three reasons why Christians don't worship on the Sabbath:

1. They love God and His Son, and worship Him
2. They believe God when He says through the Apostles that they are no longer under that yoke.
3. Therefore, they believe the whole counsel of God.

We know the seventh day was created as part of creation week.

We know the seventh day is a blessed and sanctifed day.

We know we still have a seventh day.

We know the seventh day has not been unblessed or made unholy.

So now, I know that I'm married.

I know we have a wedding anniversery.

I know I love my wife so I will use our wedding anniversery to express that love because our anniversery is a holy and blessed day and because I love my wife I will remember to keep it holy.

Do you love God? Then remember the day He blessed, sanctified and called holy.

One reason people post threads in a congregational forum continuously over and over about one issue, such as the Sabbath:
1. It's an obsession.

One reason a person would call sharing God's truth an obsession might be because he is still at emnity with God.

Rom 8:7 For the mind-set of the flesh is hostile to God because it does not submit itself to God’s law, for it is unable to do so.

I'm curious. Can you please show me where Jesus says Saturday is the day on which we should worship. Or for that matter, where He said that the Sabbath is the day we should worship?
We draw principles from the old testement to help understand certain details pertaining to truth.

We know that God blessed and sanctified the seventh day and He Himself rested on that day. We know He taught us about the seventh day in Exodus 16. We know He protected the seventh day in His Law in Exodus 20. We know He tells us to use the seventh day for sacred assembly.

Lev 23:3 "Work may be done for six days, but on the seventh day there must be a Sabbath of complete rest, a sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; it is a Sabbath to the LORD wherever you live.

We know Jesus honored this.

Luke 4:16 So He came to Nazareth, where He had been brought up. And as His custom was, He went into the synagogue on the Sabbath day, and stood up to read.

We know the followers of Jesus continued to honored this even after His death.

Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and perfumes. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.

We know years after Jesus, Paul continued to honored this.

Acts 17:2 Then Paul, as his custom was, went in to them, and for three Sabbaths reasoned with them from the Scriptures.

We know the church at Corenth honored this.

Acts 18:4 And he reasoned in the synagogue every Sabbath, and persuaded both Jews and Greeks.
Acts 18:11 And he was there for a year and six months, teaching the word of God among them.

He taught every Sabbath for a year and a half before leaving for his next journey, that's a lot of Sabbaths. He must be obsessed about that Sabbath...

Even in Gentile country, where there was no synagogue, they honored the Sabbath.

Acts 16:13 And on the Sabbath day we went forth without the gate by a river side, where we supposed there was a place of prayer; and we sat down, and spake unto the women that were come together.

Jesus taught us many, many times on how we are to honor the Sabbath when things come up on the Sabbath day. Watch my video.

Jesus is Lord of THE Sabbath. The word THE points to a literal block of time called the Sabbath.

We know the fourth commandment is part of the commandments of God and are not a shadow or a sign.

1Cor 7:19 Circumcision does not matter and uncircumcision does not matter, but keeping God’s commandments does.

Rev 14:12 This demands the perseverance of the saints, who keep God’s commandments and their faith in Jesus."

There are some people who just won't or can't believe, even if one were raised from the dead.

Luke 16:31 "But he said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded though one rise from the dead.’ "

Notice that I said "worship". In your above oft-repeated post, you are inferring that we are wrong for worshiping on the Lord's day, the 1st, Sunday, rather than on the Sabbath or the 7th day. So there must be multiple references by Jesus to worshiping on the 7th and that we should worship on the 7th; please show them, quotes by Jesus.

The foundation of true worship is not when or where you go to worship. The foundation of true wroship is love through obedience. This we should do 7/24/365. But also know that remembering to keep the Sabbath holy is also expressing true worship in love through obedience.

The Sabbath is the Lord's day for Jesus is Lord of the Sabbath. The first day is never acknowledged by Jesus nor did He ever teach us how to honor the first day. He did many times with the seventh day.

But they must be quotes dealing with worship, rather than with honoring or reverencing or not working on said Sabbath...

Most people think of worship as lifting hands in praise and song, this can be part of worship. True worship is found in loving God through obedience. Everytime you obey the teachings of Jesus, regarding how to honor the Sabbath, you are worshiping God. Anytime you obey the teachings of Jesus that have to do with anything in life you are worshiping God.

Remember, obeying the commandments of God over the commandments of man is the foundation of true worship.

Mark 7:6-8 He answered them, “Isaiah prophesied correctly about you hypocrites, as it is written: These people honor Me with their lips, but their heart is far from Me. They worship Me in vain, teaching as doctrines the commands of men. Disregarding the command of God, you keep the tradition of men.”

...Jesus honored the Sabbath, but nowhere did He say that one should worship on the Sabbath. This was added by tradition of men, not from command of God.

Jesus honored the Sabbath and He taught us how to honor the Sabbath.

1 John 2:6 He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.

Jesus never once did away with the Sabbath nor did He change the day. What we do find Him doing is correcting all the ritualistic misconceptions people had regarding a day that was already being kept holy by His people.

If you get really frustrated at the lack of quotes from Jesus, I will entertain quotes from the O.T., since sabbath worshipers place themselves under the Mosaic Law anyway. However, you may find as I did, that we are told only to keep it holy and to rest on it performing no work, no command to worship on it.

The seventh day was created holy before Law and before sin. God calls His people to remember to keep it holy. Taking the day off from work is not what makes the day holy, the day is holy so take the day off from work to celebrate its holiness. When you do this it's called, worship.
 
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Hupomone10

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We know the seventh day was created as part of creation week.
We know the seventh day is a blessed and sanctifed day.
We know we still have a seventh day.
We know the seventh day has not been unblessed or made unholy.
So now, I know that I'm married.
I know we have a wedding anniversery.
I know I love my wife so I will use our wedding anniversery to express that love because our anniversery is a holy and blessed day and because I love my wife I will remember to keep it holy.
Do you love God? Then remember the day He blessed, sanctified and called holy.
Oh, I guess I should have mentioned it, thought I did. I do love God, I do remember that the Sabbath is the seventh day and that God sanctified it and set it aside. And I do honor it. I read the Scriptures and pray, and sometimes sing on the seventh, and fellowship with fellow believers. I also do this on Sunday thru Friday, most of the time.



One reason a person would call sharing God's truth an obsession might be because he is still at emnity with God.
Another reason is because it's an obsession. Same as with hyper-Calvinists who like to change every conversation about justification and faith into "where did faith come from" and "but who gave that faith?" Why do they do that? Because it's an obsession, just like this one.
We draw principles from the old testement to help understand certain details pertaining to truth.

We know that God blessed and sanctified the seventh day and He Himself rested on that day. We know He taught us about the seventh day in Exodus 16. We know He protected the seventh day in His Law in Exodus 20. We know He tells us to use the seventh day for sacred assembly.
I thought that might be the one you would select. This was a holy "convocation", and it is interesting that God didn't command them to meet together; He said this honoring of the seventh would be the holy convocation unto Him. Even though it does make reference to the event being a holy convocation, we don't find the practice of worship attending the Sabbath until the inter-testament time when they developed the synagogue and began to meet on Saturday in the synagogues. So, your interpretation and single scripture doesn't establish that one should change the day of worship from Sunday back to Saturday. Since I already told you I honor that day by praying, reading the Word, fellowshipping with fellow believers sometimes, and even occasionally singing, it in fact says absolutely nothing against what I already do on that day. But thanks for confirming that.

And if you don't have verses to support where Jesus commanded to worship on the Sabbath, just say so. ;)

He who says he abides in Him ought himself also to walk just as He walked.
And I do, as above mentioned, and I also eat on the sabbath as Jesus did with His disciples.And as is my custom, I read the Word, pray, talk with my fellow Christian wife and son, and sometimes others, and I even very frequently do a missionary activity: I provide electricity to hospitals, food kitchens, churches, and many other facilities so they can tend to the sick, hungry, and worship in the light instead of in the dark and cold. :thumbsup:

Jesus never once did away with the Sabbath nor did He change the day.
And Jesus never once commanded anyone to worship on the Sabbath, and Christians who worship on the Lord's Day, the 1st, have not changed the Sabbath either, since Jesus nor the Father ever commanded His children to worship Him on the Sabbath; only to rest and thus keep it holy.

Have a blessed day, and even in our disagreements, we can still love each other and accept each other in Christ. :)

H.

 
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k4c

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Hupomone10;Oh, I guess I should have mentioned it, thought I did. I do love God, I do remember that the Sabbath is the seventh day and that God sanctified it and set it aside. And I do honor it. I read the Scriptures and pray, and sometimes sing on the seventh, and fellowship with fellow believers. I also do this on Sunday thru Friday, most of the time.

Amen...:thumbsup:

Another reason is because it's an obsession. Same as with hyper-Calvinists who like to change every conversation about justification and faith into "where did faith come from" and "but who gave that faith?" Why do they do that? Because it's an obsession, just like this one.
To each his own I guess.

I thought that might be the one you would select. This was a holy "convocation", and it is interesting that God didn't command them to meet together; He said this honoring of the seventh would be the holy convocation unto Him. Even though it does make reference to the event being a holy convocation, we don't find the practice of worship attending the Sabbath until the inter-testament time when they developed the synagogue and began to meet on Saturday in the synagogues. So, your interpretation and single scripture doesn't establish that one should change the day of worship from Sunday back to Saturday. Since I already told you I honor that day by praying, reading the Word, fellowshipping with fellow believers sometimes, and even occasionally singing, it in fact says absolutely nothing against what I already do on that day. But thanks for confirming that.
The word, convocation, means to assemble or public meeting.

Now keep in mind, singing, reading your Bible and prayer are all forms of worship but so is obeying the fourth commandment.

And if you don't have verses to support where Jesus commanded to worship on the Sabbath, just say so. ;)
I view the ten commandments in the same way James views them, as well as, how everyone else in the Bible views them, as a chain with ten links. If you break one, you've broke them all so when Jesus talks about obeying the commandments that includes the fourth commandment.

And I do, as above mentioned, and I also eat on the sabbath as Jesus did with His disciples.And as is my custom, I read the Word, pray, talk with my fellow Christian wife and son, and sometimes others, and I even very frequently do a missionary activity: I provide electricity to hospitals, food kitchens, churches, and many other facilities so they can tend to the sick, hungry, and worship in the light instead of in the dark and cold. :thumbsup:
Amen...:thumbsup:

Now, do you really believe the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God?

Do you really believe the seventh day is day to keep holy?

Do you really believe the seventh day is the Lord's day or do you believe Sunday is the Lord's day?

And Jesus never once commanded anyone to worship on the Sabbath, and Christians who worship on the Lord's Day, the 1st, have not changed the Sabbath either, since Jesus nor the Father ever commanded His children to worship Him on the Sabbath; only to rest and thus keep it holy.
Keeping the Sabbath holy is worshiping God.

Don't forget, there is a blessing from God when you honor the Sabbath that you don't find in the other days of the week.

Have a blessed day, and even in our disagreements, we can still love each other and accept each other in Christ. :)
I love everyone, even my enemies...;)


 
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numlock321

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..i got a question to ask for those who CLAIMS that SABBATH was abolished...

first of all whats the big reason christ would remove the SABBATH observance since he declares that he rested on that day and sanctified it , and was a memorial of God creation

second Can you point out on the NEW COVENANT that christ himself teaches the sunday Observance instead of the Sabbath observance?

well if theres nothing in the new covenant, it is pretty obvious that sabbath still and was never been abolished..

by the way the hebrew word for sabbath was "shabbath" which means - is a weekly day of rest, observed from sundown on Friday until the appearance of three stars in the sky on Saturday night
 
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k4c

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..i got a question to ask for those who CLAIMS that SABBATH was abolished...

first of all whats the big reason christ would remove the SABBATH observance since he declares that he rested on that day and sanctified it , and was a memorial of God creation

second Can you point out on the NEW COVENANT that christ himself teaches the sunday Observance instead of the Sabbath observance?

well if theres nothing in the new covenant, it is pretty obvious that sabbath still and was never been abolished..

by the way the hebrew word for sabbath was "shabbath" which means - is a weekly day of rest, observed from sundown on Friday until the appearance of three stars in the sky on Saturday night


Delusion: is a false belief held with absolute conviction despite superior evidence of error.

Sunday being called the Lord's day is one such delusion for nowhere in the entire Bible is the first day ever called the Lord's day yet millions of people believe it and fight for it.

There is one very important fact that people over look.

The seventh day in the New Testiment is always called the Sabbath of which, both Jew and Gentile, understood to be God's holy day. The first day in the Bible is always called the first day, even among the verses that call the seventh day, the Sabbath.

Matt 28:1 After the Sabbath, as the first day of the week was dawning, Mary Magdalene and the other Mary went to view the tomb.

Notice how both the first day and the Sabbath day are both identified in the same verse?

Now lets back up to see what they were doing on the Sabbath, before the dawn of the first day.

Luke 23:56 Then they returned and prepared spices and perfumes. And they rested on the Sabbath according to the commandment.
 
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ChrisCarol

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..i got a question to ask for those who CLAIMS that SABBATH was abolished...

First and foremost: I do not delclare the Sabbath was abolished God does when it was prophesied in Jeremiah 31 and thru His servant Paul preaching it: Hebrews 8



first of all whats the big reason christ would remove the SABBATH observance since he declares that he rested on that day and sanctified it , and was a memorial of God creation

As the scriptures say for better promises: Hebrews 8: 6 But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one, since the new covenant is established on better promises.

second Can you point out on the NEW COVENANT that christ himself teaches the sunday Observance instead of the Sabbath observance?

No. He thru His servant Paul teach that all days are the same: Romans 14: 5 One person considers one day more sacred than another; another considers every day alike. Each of them should be fully convinced in their own mind. 6 Whoever regards one day as special does so to the Lord. Whoever eats meat does so to the Lord, for they give thanks to God; and whoever abstains does so to the Lord and gives thanks to God.

I do know this though which has been revealed to me thru His Holy Spirit as I with He alone have studied the Bible: Matthew 28:9
Suddenly Jesus met them. “Greetings,” he said. They came to him, clasped his feet and worshiped him.
How about you tell me what day this was, not that it makes any difference, just interesting.

well if theres nothing in the new covenant, it is pretty obvious that sabbath still and was never been abolished..

There is you will just not accept it. I have shown it above.

by the way the hebrew word for sabbath was "shabbath" which means - is a weekly day of rest, observed from sundown on Friday until the appearance of three stars in the sky on Saturday night.

I think you took this a little father than the actual meaning. Here is what it means in Hebrew: The word sabbath is from the Hebrew word SHABÀT, meaning ‘cessation,’ or
‘time of rest.’ In the beginning God worked, but he also rested. Work and rest
are both in God’s plan, and both are in nature. God finishes all that he starts.
His created works were finished.

Please do not accuse me of doing what in fact God did and I as His student witness of it.

A question for you: What was the reason for the Sabbath in Exodus? Was it not a TYPE of JESUS?

Have a wonderful day. “May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.” 2 Corinthians 13:14
 
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EastCoastRemnant

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A question for you: What was the reason for the Sabbath in Exodus? Was it not a TYPE of JESUS?

The decalogue was not a type of Christ... if you can show me how the Law written by God with His own finger was fulfilled in Christ's ministry then please do. As someone already pointed out, the decalogue is a chain, one link cannot be removed without destroying the chain.

1 John 3:4
Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

What law is here spoken of? We are shown in Romans 7:7

What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

This points to the decalogue as the standard by which we know of sin.


We are also given in Romans 7 the premise of the Law under the new covenant. We see that it is indeed sin that brings death but deceives us to think it is the Law because our carnal selves cannot be subject to it. But, we are given assurance in verse 25 how we are to keep the Law, by the mind, which is in Christ Jesus.... that is to say, our love for Him.
 
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Hupomone10

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Stick around long enough and you'll agree too.

Truth does that to you...:thumbsup:

We both know I am not hearing the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth here. I've made points and they've been either ignored or selectively answered; and when answered it is not directly but by beating around the bush. I'm going to be frank with you because of the unbridled, even if sincere, arrogance with which you make such a presumptive statement as the above one. Everyone thinks they possess the truth. We can blindly do so and still be humble and have respect for each other. Having said that, this is your forum, so I'm leaving.

As to the truth to which you refer, I already know I am crucified with Christ, as dead to the Law to which many Christians are still in bondage as I am dead to the flesh, Sin, Self, and the World. Rom. 7, 6, Gal 2:20.

Furthermore, it seems that perhaps other than not going to a meeting place on this seventh day you think is God's original Sabbath without any evidence to support the assumption, other than not going to meetings on that day, it would seem that I respect the day almost as much as you do.

There is no truth to be had here that I don't already have.

God bless,
H.

 
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k4c

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We both know I am not hearing the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth here. I've made points and they've been either ignored or selectively answered; and when answered it is not directly but by beating around the bush. I'm going to be frank with you because of the unbridled, even if sincere, arrogance with which you make such a presumptive statement as the above one. Everyone thinks they possess the truth. We can blindly do so and still be humble and have respect for each other. Having said that, this is your forum, so I'm leaving.

As to the truth to which you refer, I already know I am crucified with Christ, as dead to the Law to which many Christians are still in bondage as I am dead to the flesh, Sin, Self, and the World. Rom. 7, 6, Gal 2:20.

Furthermore, it seems that perhaps other than not going to a meeting place on this seventh day you think is God's original Sabbath without any evidence to support the assumption, other than not going to meetings on that day, it would seem that I respect the day almost as much as you do.

There is no truth to be had here that I don't already have.

God bless,
H.


When one says they are dead to the flesh and dead to sin that means they are now living the will of God as opposed to living in sin.
 
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stinsonmarri

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H:

I am so sorry if you felt that you have made points and you felt they have been ignored or selectively answered. I hope that my answers will be satisfactory to you through the Holy Spirit and our Savior.

I beg to differ with you because Adam was under the original Covenant. What is a covenant but a contract agreement that was broken by man? There is an everlasting covenant that Yahweh included all nations would come under including Israel (please read Isa 61 the whole chapter). I just want to say if you could really understand that Jacob was renamed Israel because he overcame his sins. Israel is for all because Yahweh stated this so. He claimed that His house would be a place of worship for all people. Mat 21:13; Mark 11:17; Luke 19:46. Now here's another problem the scribes who wrote the KJV interpreted it instead of writing it as the Hebrew language truly meant! Let's look at Psa 105:7-10:

He is YAHWEH our Elohim: his judgments are in all the earth. He hath remembered his covenant forever, the word which he commanded to a thousand generations. Which covenant he made with Abraham, and his oath unto Isaac; And confirmed the same unto Jacob for a law, and to Israel for an everlasting covenant:

The Hebrew word "olam" means perpetual which the English word is "everlasting." But here is the mystery which is the Hebrew word "choq or chuqqah (this is the feminine form of the word). Many Adventist also do not understand these words which in English is "statute or law." When Yahweh told Moses to come up to accept what He (Yahweh) would give him would be written by His own finger. But many do not read Ex 24:12 which are two separate words "law (torah) and "commandments" (mitzvah). Now "torah" actually mean set time or feast days and the first one as am outline was the Sabbath! This statute was given in Gen 2:1-3 but all of the statues were given in Gen 1:14! That's why Abraham kept more than just commandments and if you look up the word in your Bible it will appear on numerous occasions. Gen 25:10 "Mitzvah" mean Yahweh's constitution provided in a specific order as our constitution is provided. Yahweh's constitution is universal as well as His statutes are because both the angels observe them and other sons of Elohim (these are beings created in the universe that did not fall) like man present themselves before Him as Israel was required. We are also required today but our offering of sacrifice is our bodies. Psa 89:31; 103:18, 20; 111:10; Mat 22:40; Luke 1:6; John 14:15; 15:10; 1Jn 2:3; 1Jn 3:22, 24; 1Jn 5:2, 3;1:6; Rev 12:17; 14:12; 22:14 - Job 1:6; 2:1; John 1:12; Rom 8:14, 19; Php 2:15; 1Jn 3:1; 2 Heb 1:5

And madest known unto them thy holy Sabbath, and commandedst them precepts, statutes, and laws, by the hand of Moses thy servant: Neh 9:14

And YAHWEH said unto Moses, Come up to me into the mount, and be there: and I will give thee tables of stone, and a law, and commandments which I have written; that thou mayest teach them. Ex 24:12

Moses taught Israel Yahweh statutes and commandments that they had forgotten living under bondage in Egypt.

Ex 31:16-17 - The English languages is confusing because the word "their" is not used and generation actually means ages so it should be read as a law for ever through the universe. The proof is Isa 66: 22 Nehemiah 9:14; Ezekiel 20:12 - Again Yahweh selected Moses to teach them how to obey His word. If you truly become under the umbrella of Yahweh the true sign of Elohim is His Sabbath. Why? Because He not only created the earth, but the whole universe which is clearly stated in both Gen 2:1-3 and in Ex 20:8-11.

Heb. 8-Now it is strange that you use this text because Paul repeats Jeremiah! Yahweh told Israel to write this time His commands and laws on stone to show symbolically how hard men hearts had become because of sin. But when Yashua would come and die He through the power of the Holy Spirit would come and cut through and make the heart (mind) soft or tender once again. Then Yahweh's word can be understood or remember in our minds. Remember the above text was written first in the OT! Deut 27:8; Pro 3:3; 7:2, 3; Jer 31:33
I hope you do not mind but I combine the rest of your comments together and will make points on each one collectively. What I cannot fathom from those who made the claim that the Sabbath was only for the Hebrew people (known through Jacob's new name as representative to all that will overcomes sin) as they are better than everyone else! You know they think they are too! But they are not! You Elohim as being a bigot and racist and Elohim made all of mankind and want them all to obey the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Why would he give something just one people that would not be fair. He did not and the Bible proves it! Ex 12:49; Act 10:34 The Sabbath statute was given in the beginning and if you want to make it to Heaven it will be there as well. Can you please show me that when they broke bread it means worship? "Breaking bread" metaphorically means having a meal together with someone or starting a meal for guest. The Catholic Church changed this to mean having communion (mass) which is not Biblical! I have never read anywhere in the Bible that Elohim, Yashua or the Apostles said keep holy the first day of the week if so show me where? Again you are wrong the Greeks kept the Sabbath as well. Act 13:42, 44; 16:13; 17:1-5; 18:4 Now in Acts 15 what was not impose on neither the Greeks or the Jews any longer were the laws of Moses which were nailed to cross. Jews even today cannot sacrifice because the Bible gave a command that they were to cease. Dan 9:27 This was a book placed on the side of the Ark of the Covenant and not under the mercy seat where both the statutes and commandments were written by the finger of Yahweh. Also there is the original Ark of the Covenant in Heaven so how can you state that His word is only for the Jews it is shown from Heaven during the end of time! A. T. Robertson,John MacArthur and SDA Commentary are all incorrect! Because Paul was telling the Colossians that the Jews were holding on to the laws of Moses namely the ordinances that were nail to the Savior's cross. The Jews had no right to keep them from keeping the feast days because these statutes were shadows or protected in obedience through the death of Yashua to be observed. Ex 31:18; 40:20, 21; Deut 31:9; 24:24, 26; Neh 8:1, 8:8, 14, 18




Now according to 2 Maccabees 2:4-8 (which I truly accept as an historical account but not a part of the holy cannon of the Bible), stated that the earthly Ark was taken and hidden by Jeremiah before the city was captured. I also believe that it will be found in the last days because of it holiness containing the glory of the Most High and cannot be touched by men today but only anointed were to carry with wooden sticks through rings or death would follow. Witness "edah" and testimony "eduth" means the same thing.

Witness - O.E. witnes "attestation of fact, event, etc., from personal knowledge;" also "one who so testifies;" originally "knowledge, wit," formed from wit (n.) + -ness. Testimony - late 14c., "the Ten Commandments," from L.L. testimonium (Vulgate), along with Gk. to martyrion (Septuagint), translations of Heb. 'eduth "attestation, testimony" (of the Decalogue), from 'ed "witness." Meaning "evidence, statement of a witness" first recorded early 15c., from O.Fr. testimonie (11c.), from L. testimonium "evidence, proof, testimony," from testis "witness" (see testament) + -monium, suffix signifying "action, state, condition." The Greek word "martus" has an unknown meaning that is why many Bible scholars (which I am one also) agree that the word proves that the NT was originally written in Hebrew 2Sa 6:6, 7; Rev 11:11-19

Then Yashua said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. John 6:32

The Israelites was given a special privilege as did the Canaanites before them and Baalim who was not Hebrew nor Job as well. The Canaanites had Melchizedek (king/priest and original builder of Jerusalem known as Salem) meaning they had Yahweh laws and commandments first but the ruling class the Amorites and the others were turning away and following Baal. Yahweh told Abraham that while his children would be put in bondage He was giving the Canaanite four hundred and thirty years to return to Yahweh they didn't and the rod was now given to Israel. Israel had more privileges than Canaan because of what they suffered in Egypt. But you forget a mix multitude came out with Israel and they had Yashua to bring them back and were allowed four hundred and ninety year which came to end when the Jews stone Stephen. Now it is the white's man time because through each son of Noah Yahweh selected one to be his messenger to all of mankind and each one has fail so a special group of overcomers from all nations will finish and bring in the great multitude. Gen 14: 18, 19; 15:16; Ex. 12:40; Dan 7:24; Act 7:6; Rev 7:1-9

I hope that I have answered your concerns with truth, love and with a humble spirit.

Blessing on you,
stinsonmarri
 
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