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How an Evangelical Creationist Accepted Evolution

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a post by Alan Smithee
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juvenissun

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He treated evolution as an unsurmountable truth, and tried to find a way to accommodate it.
This is wrong to begin with.
Evolution, is NOT true. He needs to dig into science in order to understand it.
This is a fatal mistake happened to many Christians who do not know enough science to refute evolution at the first hand.
 
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lesliedellow

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I would think Francisco Ayala knows more than enough science to refute it, if refutable it was. In any case, there can hardly be an Academy of Sciences on the face of the Earth which he isn't either a member, or an honorary member, of.
 
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juvenissun

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I would think Francisco Ayala knows more than enough science to refute it, if refutable it was. In any case, there can hardly be an Academy of Sciences on the face of the Earth which he isn't either a member, or an honorary member, of.

That is his problem. If he tried to say anything FOR creationism, he WILL lose all his titles.
He may believe evolution is true. But it is a belief and is not scientific. A belief can not be used in any scientific argument.
I don't think any scientist has proven the evolution is true. If one said so, he is not a scientist.
 
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lesliedellow

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That is his problem. If he tried to say anything FOR creationism, he WILL lose all his titles.

In that case, why doesn't he just stay quiet, instead of arguing energetically against creationism?


He may believe evolution is true. But it is a belief and is not scientific. A belief can not be used in any scientific argument.
I don't think any scientist has proven the evolution is true. If one said so, he is not a scientist.

Baloney. Nothing in science is known 100% to be true, but things are believed to be true when there is very good evidence for them.
 
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juvenissun

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In that case, why doesn't he just stay quiet, instead of arguing energetically against creationism?

Baloney. Nothing in science is known 100% to be true, but things are believed to be true when there is very good evidence for them.

Evolution theory has lower than 30% (that is an absolute overestimation) proven facts. It is scientifically unacceptable.
 
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lesliedellow

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Evolution theory has lower than 30% (that is an absolute overestimation) proven facts. It is scientifically unacceptable.

Oh yeah, I suppose that is why practically every biologist on the face of the Earth accepts it.

Is there really no end to creationist codswallop?
 
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Jimmy D

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If he tried to say anything FOR creationism, he WILL lose all his titles.

And quite right too, because he'd be a liar like the rest of the 'creation scientists'. Fortunately he doesn't disregard reality to accommodate his religious fantasies.

Evolution theory has lower than 30% (that is an absolute overestimation) proven facts. It is scientifically unacceptable

Oh yeah, I suppose that is why practically every biologist on the face of the Earth accepts it.

Is there really no end to creationist codswallop?

More or less what I was going to write, I would have used the word nonsense though.
 
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sfs

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Random responses to recent posts:

1) Evolution as a theory is underdetermined. Of course it is. All scientific theories are underdetermined -- as are all nonscientific theories. That's just the reality of living in an uncertain world. That's why science is always open in principle to a new theory that will explain the data better. Unless you have a better (or even comparable) theory to offer, however, pointing out underdetermination is not contributing anything of value.
2) The enzyme that digests nylon was almost certainly the result of recent evolution. Bacteria have also been observed to evolve this ability in the lab.
3) Natural selection is not a tautology. It's a description of the behavior of some genetic systems some of the time.
 
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juvenissun

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Oh yeah, I suppose that is why practically every biologist on the face of the Earth accepts it.

Is there really no end to creationist codswallop?

They accept the 30% (max) experimental data. That is all they can do.
And if they do believe, then they accept the rest of the 70% by faith.

You are a mathematician and can not debate this issue with me. If you could, then we can take a look of those less than 30% data and think about the extensions they have to make to accept the theory by faith.
 
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juvenissun

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You can not use that argument as an excuse. You work on genetics, and you "think" the evolution is shown by your data. But that is it. You can not apply what you know to other thousands of speculations such as dinosaurs changed to birds.

Counting questions answered by evolution and questions asked to evolution, I think the ratio would be smaller than 10%. And you want to call that an acceptable scientific theory?
 
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sfs

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Let's see. You've previously declined to debate biology because you said you didn't know enough about it. Now you're criticizing it based on numbers you admit you just made up. What exactly am I supposed to respond to? Is there an argument here I'm missing?
 
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juvenissun

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You name one proof of evolution, then I would give you a number of related questions abut evolution which you would not be able to answer. Then let's count the ratio of answered/unanswered questions about evolution.

Fair game?

To compare, one can not get a similar result in other better supported scientific theories.
 
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Loudmouth

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You name one proof of evolution, then I would give you a number of related questions abut evolution which you would not be able to answer.

The idea that we can't know anything until we know everything is perhaps the worst argument to date.

To compare, one can not get a similar result in other better supported scientific theories.

Then why don't you start by explaining how creationism would produce a nested hierarchy.
 
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