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Homosexuals and Bisexuals

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Skaloop

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It's also notable that the median values for homosexuals and heterosexuals are the same. So half of the homosexuals had 7 or fewer partners. The significantly higher mean, though, suggests that there are a small proportion of outliers who had a very high number of partners, skewing the bell curve. This would have a big influence on the homosexual stats due to the small sample size. Similar outliers in the heterosexual data would be easier masked by the large sample size.

Also, it would be nice to know the calculated error ranges and confidence levels for the three different groups.

(I'm a bit rusty on statistics, so if anything here is way off, let me know.)
 
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LightHorseman

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The acronym NAMBLA stands for the National Man Boy Love Association. Seems to be gay centered.
No, seems to be paedophile centred, which is different.

The constant attempt by anti-homosexuals to attempt to implicate all homosexuals in paedophilia is precisely as wrong and illogical as it would be to attempt to implicate all heterosexuals in paedophilia. Yes, there are some men who want to have sex with little boys. But there are, in reality, a great many more men who want to have sex with little girls. And just like the majority of heterosexual men do NOT want to have sex with little girls, so too the great majority of homosexual men do not want to have sex with little boys.

So, if we could please stop the constant red herrings regarding NAMBLA and other child molesters? That would be just great, KTHXBI!

(p.s. I realise that there are female child molesters as well, and that they too, can be found targeting both male and female children, however, these never seem to come up. The focus of anti-gay sentiment almost invariably seems to revolve around male-male anal sex, to the point you might think the condemners (or at least, their primary motivating speakers) have some sort of obsession they might not like their followers to know about)
 
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Ben-AG

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I respect that. Me, personally, have never experienced anything of that sort.
 
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BigBadWlf

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Posting false information unknowingly is a not a problem it is easily corrected. It is when false information is repeated, defended and represented as truth even after it is shown to be false that the real problem occurs
 
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BigBadWlf

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I’ve asked that multiple times and have yet to receive an answer
 
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BigBadWlf

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What you have is a causation/correlation problem. Fortunately it is one more recently studies have resolved.

It is not being gay that is the driving force of such numbers rather it is the prejudice and anti-gay violence (particularly violence against them perpetrated by parents) that young gays are exposed to that is the culprit.

Y Hidaka, D Operario “Attempted suicide, psychological health and exposure to harassment among Japanese homosexual, bisexual or other men.” Showed positive correlation accounting for 83% of mental health issues of gay and bisexual men stemming from discrimination, verbal abuse and physical violence practiced against them. Homosexual men not exposed to such abuse had significantly lower instances of mental illness, emotional problems and suicidal ideation than the population at large.


Hershberger SL, Pilkington NW, D'Augelli AR. “Predictors of suicide attempts among gay, lesbian, and bisexual youth.” Found that suicide attempts among gay, lesbians and bisexual youth is directly related to being physically abused/the victim of in home violence. Gay/lesbian/bisexual youth who were not being abused at home were less likely to have suicidal ideation than their age cohort.

Rotheram-Borus MJ, Hunter J, Rosario M. “Suicidal behavior and gay-related stress among gay and bisexual male adolescents.” Found similar results to the Hershberger study and included verbal and emotional abuse by parents and being forced out of the home by parents as predisposing stressors to suicide.

Proctor CD, Groze VK. “Risk factors for suicide among gay, lesbian, and bisexual youth.” Also identify in home abuse as the primary cause of emotional problems among gay and lesbian youth. They note that one in five lesbians teenagers is sexually abused by their father and such sexual abuse began after they came out to their parents they also found 85% of lesbian teenagers are physically abused by their parents beginning after coming out

Bagley C, Tremblay P. “Suicidal behaviors in homosexual and bisexual males.” Found that links to mental illness among gay men were related not to sexual orientation but to how that individuals parents responded to his coming out.

Hunter J. “Violence against lesbian and gay male youths” found that gay and lesbians are over three hundred times as likely to experience physical, verbal and or sexual abuse at the hands of their parents after coming out compared to control teens

DuRant RH, Krowchuck DP, Sinal SH. “Victimization, use of violence, and drug use at school among male adolescents who engage in same-sex behavior.” Again fond that it was not sexual orientation but the enduring of regular verbal, emotional, physical and/or sexual abuse that is the cause. Gay teens who are not verbally or physical abused have no different incidence of mental health issues than heterosexual peers

Faulkner AH, Cranston K. “Correlates of Same-sex sexual behavior in a random sample of Massachusetts high school students.” Again found it is being abused at home and not being homosexual that is the issue

Garofalo R, Wolf RC, Kessel S, Palfrey J, DuRant RH. “The association between health risk behaviors and sexual orientation among a school-based sample of adolescents.” Linked substance about to being abused in the home

Shaffer D, Fisher P, Hicks RH, Parides M, Gould M. “Sexual orientation in adolescents who commit suicide.” Found positive correlation between emotional abuse by family and authority figures as predictors of suicidal behavior, not sexual orientation
 
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BigBadWlf

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Trying to make claims about a minority based on a survey where the minority (who makes up 5-10% of the population) response was 0.01% of the total responses is bad statistics no matter how you slice it.
 
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Eloquent and lovely.
 
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Philothei

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Claiming "bad statistics" for the agenda driven "bigoted majority" is so lame though as the same bias exist for "bad statistics" at the other side... No difference so debating using these statistics is merely like swimming in the ocean. It is simple logic we learn about human behaviour from our past. Historically we have no such a thing as a "homosexual" we ONLY have accounts of homosexual behaviour period. Wondering why? it is simple they constituted a very tiny percentage of the population that minor that no data or record was ever recorded since it was not considered the norm.
 
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BigBadWlf

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If memory serves the less than 1% of the population is gay is a claim that was discredited long long ago. (I can’t find the references to it right now) It stems form a Chicago magazine phone survey that limited the definition of homosexual to ridiculous levels. To qualify as gay one had to have been sexually active exclusively with the same gender for more than ten years. Anything else was classified as heterosexual. I recall reading an interview with a prominent gay writer who noted that on that survey he would have been listed as heterosexual because ten years ago he was a virgin.
 
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BigBadWlf

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Pedophiles want to have sex with children. The gender of the child is rarely a preference factor for the perpetrator and is unrelated to the perpetrator’s sexual orientation. Usually a child is sexually abused because he/she is available for abuse. Most pedophiles are heterosexual and in an ongoing romantic/sexual relationship with the child’s mother, meaning most child molesters are the fathers of the children being molested (biological father, step father or ongoing romantic partner of the mother)
 
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BigBadWlf

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Clarification please…are you saying that it is “loving toile and to twist data to fit an agenda” if that agenda is an anti-gay agenda?
 
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Philothei

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No of course not.. .I would not agree with any "twist" in any given way... I hate any agendas ... Truth is always the best policy. We are not to judge the world but to care for our brother and love them. Love has no agend BTW
 
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b&wpac4

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No of course not.. .I would not agree with any "twist" in any given way... I hate any agendas ... Truth is always the best policy. We are not to judge the world but to care for our brother and love them. Love has no agenda BBW

Not allowing people who believe differently than you to live their life in peace with the same legal rights you have is not love.
 
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BigBadWlf

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No of course not.. .I would not agree with any "twist" in any given way... I hate any agendas ... Truth is always the best policy. We are not to judge the world but to care for our brother and love them. Love has no agenda BBW
So you are saying that false claims about gays and lesbians are wrong?
…claims like:
Homosexuals have a life expectancy of 42 years
Homosexuality is a pathology
Homosexuals have greater instances of depression, suicide, anxiety, mental illness because they are homosexuals
Homosexuals are more likely to be substance abusers and alcoholics
The majority of homosexuals have a STD
Homosexuals are 100 times more likely to be murdered

Correct?
 
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Maren

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I have two things to say about using AIDS or other STDs as an argument against gays and gay marriage. First, ultimately, it does not matter what a persons sexual orientation is; regardless of the sexual orientation if couples are in an ongoing monogamous relationship they are not (as a general rule) going to pass on an STD or AIDS). So, at least to me, the idea that STDs may be a problem in the homosexual community is actually one of the best reasons to promote same-sex marriage. I understand you disagree with homosexual acts however, not everyone (not even all Christians) believe as you do.

Second, if we are really going to go after gays for their rate of STDs shouldn't we use the same standard to go after Blacks. Blacks in Africa are far and away the largest group that are infected with AIDS and other STDs. Even in the United States, Blacks (as I recall) have the majority of those infected with AIDS/HIV and Washington, D.C., largely because of their large Black population, is the most infected city in the United States.

And, sorry, I guess one last point -- if gays are the most immoral because of the percentage infected by AIDS, does that make lesbians the most moral (lowest AIDS/HIV infections and chance of getting infected)?



Most of these studies fit into the above comments.


Homosexuality and Mental Health Problems

Forgive me if I find this paper suspect. Let me give you one example: At one point the author makes the claim, "Since homosexuals have greater numbers of partners and breakups, compared with heterosexuals, and since longterm gay male relationships are rarely monagamous, it is hardly surprising if suicide attempts are proportionally greater. The median number of partners for homosexuals is four times higher than for heterosexuals". Now, the reference he gives for these claims is a paper he wrote and one he did no real research for. Rather, he quotes that it is "calculated from Laumann". This gets even more interesting because the citation to Laumann is also not to a study but to an examination of, "the National Health and Social Life Survey, a 1992 nationwide survey". So, basically rather than looking at the original study to try and support his claims (which I'm assuming he tried), he instead goes to "one of two books reporting on the findings".

So, yes, it is very hard for me to take seriously the writings of a man who not only appears to make assumptions (like his assumption about the Netherlands "where alternative lifestyles are more widely accepted than in most other countries") that are not supported. I'll admit the Netherlands as a whole is somewhat more accepting of "alternative lifestyles" than the US but I don't think I'd go as far that it is "more widely accepted than in most other countries". The fact is, having lived in the Benelux and as someone once fluent in Dutch, there is still plenty of non-acceptance of alternative lifestyles. It is much like the US; large cities have more acceptence and smaller cities still have little real acceptance. And then to create a point about homosexuals being more promiscuous, even in relationships, he points to his own paper based on another paper based on a study. As such, he is not reliable (as most papers on NARTH are not reliable).

As for NARTH, my big question is this: NARTH was founded to, "non-profit, educational organization dedicated to the research, therapy and prevention of homosexuality." Now, the last sentence of the article you posted from NARTH states, "In conclusion, then, if we ask the question "Is mental illness inherent in the homosexual condition?" the answer would have to be "Further research--uncompromised by politics --should be carried out to honestly evaluate this issue." So, why in their 17 years of existence as a scientific group dedicated to "research homosexuality" has NARTH never published, or even created, a scientific study designed to answer the questions they continually ask similar to this one?
 
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BigBadWlf

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Thank you for researching this (you beat me to it) and raising these very salient points. It is fairly common for biased research to cite things other than the actual source…usually they cite third or fourth references. It seems that the reason for the convoluted sources is to prevent people from actually checking facts. Timothy Dailey is famous for this tactic, read through his references sometime and note just how many non-primary sources he uses. One of his favorites is to talk about a study but then not reverence or even name the study instead referencing a small print news article that is not archived.

I think there is a reason why NARTH does not actually do this and it is related to the reason it is recognized as an anti-gay hate group
 
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Shane Roach

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Trying to make claims about a minority based on a survey where the minority (who makes up 5-10% of the population) response was 0.01% of the total responses is bad statistics no matter how you slice it.

It showed 1.6% gay and close to 9% gay and some form of bi inclusive.



 
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Shane Roach

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I think there is a reason why NARTH does not actually do this and it is related to the reason it is recognized as an anti-gay hate group

While I have had occassion to be irritated with NARTH's lack of effectiveness, the accusation of it being a hate group comes from the Southern Poverty Law Center, and not any official hate registry. It's definition of hate includes the following:

"Hate group activities can include criminal acts, marches, rallies, speeches, meetings, leafleting or publishing. Websites appearing to be merely the work of a single individual, rather than the publication of a group, are not included in this list. Listing here does not imply a group advocates or engages in violence or other criminal activity."

So if you hand out tracts against gay marriage, you might qualify.

No one yet has been willing to give me the direct link to this center's supposed list of 12 or whatnot gay "hate groups", but the link I have found is here.

SPLCenter.org: Hate Groups Map
 
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