homosexuality

kod · Sep 5, 2002

Originally posted by Brian45
You don't give up do you Kod ?

May I ask If your church is located in or around Sydney  ?

The Uniting Church is Australia wide.    

And, yes, I do give up ... frequently!  But God's love gets me back on my feet again. 

"Love the sinner, hate the sin" is well meant, I'm sure, but to most homosexual people sounds like someone saying to an Aborigine "Love you, brother, but hate the colour of your skin".

 

 

 

Brian45 · Sep 6, 2002

Originally posted by kod
The Uniting Church is Australia wide.    

And, yes, I do give up ... frequently!  But God's love gets me back on my feet again. 

"Love the sinner, hate the sin" is well meant, I'm sure, but to most homosexual people sounds like someone saying to an Aborigine "Love you, brother, but hate the colour of your skin".

 

 

 

 

I find it very interesting that your church is the uniting church , as I recently found an advertisment in my local news paper from the uniting church in my town .

They were asking the local community for supporters to go with them on a trip to Sydney to help support homosexual rights at the gay mardigra .

Well at least I know now where your comming from  , and it was what I thought in the begining on your other thread .

The only reason I kept posting bible verses was because you continued to twist the scriptures to suit yourself .

Chris†opher Paul · Sep 6, 2002

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman

Pretty clear to me.

seebs · Sep 6, 2002

Originally posted by s0uljah
Pretty clear to me.

Okay, imagine, if you will, that God decided he was a Vikings fan, and that people who liked the Green Bay Packers were an "abomination" to Him. One of his laws might well be:

Wear not green and yellow clothing, for it is abhorrent to me. And of the rubber hats that look like cheese, partake not.

So, fast forward two thousand years, until today's football teams are long forgotten.

Those instructions would be really clear... but would be *totally misunderstood* if they were taken at face value.

The text you quote is in the middle of a long list of cultural and religious practices which are banned to separate the Israelites from their neighbors. I suspect it is meant to be interpreted only within that context.

Some of those practices (sacrificing children) are morally wrong anyway, *because they violate other rules*, even if you're sacrificing them to something other than Molech. Others (mixed fabrics) are totally irrelevant today. The only way to tell is to look at the two commandments that Christ said all of the law and the prophets depend on, and see how something measures up to them.

At that point, we find that there's not much to be said either way on a lot of issues, which fits with the underlying message Christ brought us; we're adults now, and we can make moral decisions competently.

Chris†opher Paul · Sep 6, 2002

The New Testament forbids it as well. Again, very clear to me.

Knight · Sep 6, 2002

Originally posted by seebs
At that point, we find that there's not much to be said either way on a lot of issues, which fits with the underlying message Christ brought us; we're adults now, and we can make moral decisions competently.

Moral decisions for a Christian should not be made independant of the Bible.

Also, Christ did not say that. He did say:

Matthew 5:17

17"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

wblastyn · Sep 6, 2002

What is the world coming to when Christians justify sin

seebs · Sep 6, 2002

Well, it's probably coming to the same thing it was coming to when Christians started to justify the "freeing" of slaves, despite a Papal edict from the early 1st millennium saying that anyone who tries to free a slave is anathema to the church, or when people started talking about "love" and "committment" as if that would justify mixed-race marriages.

Condemning things you aren't tempted by is easy, but that doesn't make it compatible with God's word.

markd · Sep 6, 2002

<DT>Ro 1:26 - Show Context
<DD>For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural</DD>For me this says it all.

fragmentsofdreams · Sep 6, 2002

Originally posted by seebs
Okay, imagine, if you will, that God decided he was a Vikings fan, and that people who liked the Green Bay Packers were an "abomination" to Him. One of his laws might well be:

Wear not green and yellow clothing, for it is abhorrent to me. And of the rubber hats that look like cheese, partake not.

Those evil Packers.

However, God is not a Vikings fan. Otherwise, he would help out more during the playoffs.

kod · Sep 6, 2002

Originally posted by Brian45
 

I find it very interesting that your church is the uniting church , as I recently found an advertisment in my local news paper from the uniting church in my town .

They were asking the local community for supporters to go with them on a trip to Sydney to help support homosexual rights at the gay mardigra .

Well at least I know now where your comming from  , and it was what I thought in the begining on your other thread .

The only reason I kept posting bible verses was because you continued to twist the scriptures to suit yourself .

 

I don't think it's helpful to say that others "twist" the Scriptures.  We are all trying our best to understand God's word. 

I have never been to the Mardis Gras because I do not approve of public displays like that.

I find that a discussion of homosexuality among Christians is always a good test of the Fruits of the Spirit, especially gentleness and patience. 

 

 

 

kod · Sep 6, 2002

Originally posted by s0uljah
You shall not lie with a male as with a woman.

Pretty clear to me.

"A woman shall not wear anything that pertains to a man ... for whoever does these things is an abomination to the Lord your God"  (Deut 22:5)

Pretty clear to me.

Or, on second thoughts, maybe I need to consider the full context.

LouisBooth · Sep 6, 2002

Agreed KOD, because people like to stretch the text as far as they can to say no no..this isn't homosexuals he is talking about, even though the text does plainly says it..

kod · Sep 6, 2002

Originally posted by wblastyn
What is the world coming to when Christians justify sin

Like war you mean?

kod · Sep 6, 2002

Originally posted by LouisBooth
Agreed KOD, because people like to stretch the text as far as they can to say no no..this isn't homosexuals he is talking about, even though the text does plainly says it..

I think, Louis, that even in your opinion, being a homosexual is not a sin, rather it is homosexual behaviour.

I have never denied that the Bible condemns homosexual behaviour, but the relevant passages do so in a context of promiscuity, prostitution, pedophilia or pagan worship.

 

 

LouisBooth · Sep 6, 2002

"I think, Louis, that even in your opinion, being a homosexual is not a sin, rather it is homosexual behaviour. "

According to Christ, the though is a sin also

Ahh..the old its okay if you don't do it lustfully trick. Nope, the passages are talking about the actions in general, not in a specific context like that. Its unnatural, period.

kod · Sep 6, 2002

Originally posted by LouisBooth
Ahh..the old its okay if you don't do it lustfully trick. Nope, the passages are talking about the actions in general, not in a specific context like that. Its unnatural, period.

Ahh ... the old "unnatural" argument.

Is it natural for humans to fly?

Do same sex relationships occur in nature, eg among animals?

Would it be "natural" for a man with a homosexual orientation to have sex with a woman?

kod · Sep 6, 2002

Originally posted by LouisBooth
Nope, the passages are talking about the actions in general, not in a specific context like that.

I will accept you can argue (although I don't agree) that one could generalize that all homosexual behaviour is sinful. However, to deny that a context exists is just not factual, eg Paul in Romans 1 is quite obviously talking about idolatry as well as sexual behaviour.  The relevance of this context is what is being debated.

 

 

fragmentsofdreams · Sep 6, 2002

Originally posted by kod
Ahh ... the old "unnatural" argument.

Is it natural for humans to fly?

Do same sex relationships occur in nature, eg among animals?

Would it be "natural" for a man with a homosexual orientation to have sex with a woman?

To head up the "just because animals do it doesn't mean it's okay" response, what is natural is not always moral. The point (I believe) that kod is making is that because it is found in nature, one cannot say that it is imoral because it is natural.

SUNSTONE · Sep 7, 2002

Originally posted by kod
Like war you mean?

Are you saying that war is sin?

A time of war and a time of peace ecc 3.

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