Homosexuality is a sin, get over it...

[OObi]

I'm writing this thread not so I can go out and condemn people for their sins. Rather, it seems that there is a lot of defense in the Christian community for this sin, and that shouldn't be. Do I write this in hopes that it will diminish efforts to try and defend what is clearly, Biblically, wrong.



Anyone who has heard of the cities of "Sodom and Gommorah" knows that they were notorious hotbeds of homosexuality.

Gen 19:5-8
"and they called to Lot and said to him, 'Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us that we may have relations with them.' But Lot went out to them at the doorway, and shut the door behind him, and said, 'Please, my brothers, do not act wickedly.'"

The Greek word in the New Testament for homosexuality is literally "a sodomite". (A term that has unchanged in 5000 years, even today- "sodomy") Apart from the fact the city was clearly destroyed by God because of homosexuality in the narrative of Gen 19, even the New Testament clearly states exactly the same thing in Jude 7.

Jude 7
"Just as Sodom and Gomorrah and the cities around them, since they in the same way as these indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh, are exhibited as an example, in undergoing the punishment of eternal fire."

Any sinner should always remember that the God who commands us to love our neighbour is the same God who will cast any and all unrepentant sinners into the "eternal fire".

Here are more Bible quotes,

Lev 18:22-23
"You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination."

Lev 20:13
"If there is a man who lies with a male as those who lie with a woman, both of them have committed a detestable act; they shall surely be put to death."

1 Cor 6:9
"Or do you not know that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals"

1 Tim 1:9-10
"realizing the fact that (civil) law is not made for a righteous man, but for those who are lawless and rebellious, for the ungodly and sinners, for the unholy and profane, for those who kill their fathers or mothers, for murderers and immoral men and homosexuals and kidnappers and liars and perjurers"

Rom 1:26-27
"For this reason God gave them over to degrading passions; for their women exchanged the natural function for that which is unnatural, and in the same way also the men abandoned the natural function of the woman and burned in their desire toward one another, men with men committing indecent acts and receiving in their own persons the due penalty of their error."


There we have a very precise Biblical picture of what homosexuality is, a sin.

If anyone has any objections to this, please post them. That is why I have made this thread, to answer objections. Thank you.

Shalom, OObi

 

[tulc]

Ahhh! Good idea, because no one on CF thinks being gay is a sin.
tulc(we need more threads like this...or not)

 

[tulc]

...and Sodom wasn't destroyed because of gay people.
tulc(just a thought)

 

[OObi]

...and Sodom wasn't destroyed because of gay people.
tulc(just a thought)

Saying that God destroyed a city because they weren't hospitable is ridiculous.

 

[Catherineanne]

Shalom, OObi

Why do you seek to remove the mote from thy brother's eye without first removing the beam from thy own eye? Remove first the beam, so that you may be able to see better to remove the mote from thy brother's eye.

Or, alternatively:

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone

Or, alternatively:

Judge not, lest ye be judged

 

[Catherineanne]

Saying that God destroyed a city because they weren't hospitable is ridiculous.

Calling a God given sexual orientation a sin is ridiculous.

See, we can all play this game.

 

[OObi]

Ahhh! Good idea, because no one on CF thinks being gay is a sin.
tulc(we need more threads like this...or not)

You know why there are so many gay threads here? 'Cause people like you don't stay on topic but would rather flame other people. If that's all you're going to do, and not add to the discussion, please leave...


I made known the purpose of this thread in my initial post. People seem to defend sin on here, and it looks as if you are one of those people. I am merely stating that it is a sin and it should not be defended. That is why I wrote this thread, not to make known what already is very Biblically clear but to correct the error of defending the wrong.

 

[tulc]

Saying that God destroyed a city because they weren't hospitable is ridiculous.

...you mean Ezekial was wrong?
tulc(just reminding you what the Bible said)

 

[Maccie]

Do I write this in hopes that it will diminish efforts to try and defend what is clearly, Biblically, wrong.

It isn't quite so clear as you think. I know full well what the Bible says in English translations, which are interpretations as well. However, I think you should accept that there are many people who think the Bible is not clear at all, and that stable, loving relationships between two people of the same sex are not sinful.

You don't have to agree with this - that is your prerogative, but you do have to accept that others think differently.

However many scripture verses you quote, there are other interpretations. Which are just as valid as yours.

And please note I am talking about loving, stable and committed relationships, and this applies to BOTH homosexual and heterosexual relationships. Casual sex, promiscuity, abuse, and fornication are clearly wrong whether between people of the opposite sex or of the same sex.

And I would have thought this whole subject has been done to death. It has already driven one christian person off these Forums. Why do you have to bring it up again.

Or is it, as I said in another thread, US Christians are obsessed with sex?

 

[tulc]

I made known the purpose of this thread in my initial post. People seem to defend sin on here, and it looks as if you are one of those people. I am merely stating that it is a sin and it should not be defended. That is why I wrote this thread, not to make known what already is very Biblically clear but to correct the error of defending the wrong.

But why don't you just join one of the fifteen or so other threads if that was your intent?

You know why there are so many gay threads here?

because we don't think it's up to you to define who is or isn't a Christian?

'Cause people like you don't stay on topic but would rather flame other people. If that's all you're going to do, and not add to the discussion, please leave...

...I'm sorry I thought quoting what the Bible said about why a city was destroyed WAS on topic?
on a side note? I don't flame people, never have, hopfully never will. I'm here on CF to discuss things and nothing is accomplished by flaming others. I'm sorry if you felt I had, that was never my intention.
tulc(sipping some great coffee!)

 

[OObi]

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone

The context of that statement concerns a condemning attitude about. Condemning people, rather then the sin, something I am not doing.

Calling a God given sexual orientation a sin is ridiculous.

See, we can all play this game.

I agree, that is pretty ridiculous. However, the satan given sexual orientation of homosexuals....

...you mean Ezekial was wrong?

Not Ezekial, but rather you...

Ezekiel 16:49-50
"Behold, this was the guilt of your sister Sodom: she and her daughters had arrogance, abundant food, and careless ease, but she did not help the poor and needy. Thus they were haughty and committed abominations before Me. Therefore I removed them when I saw it.”

Do we have two conflicting accounts of Sodom’s guilt in Scripture? Does Genesis focus on homosexuality, while the prophet Ezekiel accuses the city’s inhabitants of pride and inhospitality?

The two passages are actually in agreement, for Ezekiel does not ignore the issue of homosexuality at all. The prophet’s reference to the fact that Sodom “committed abominations” before God is no doubt a reference to the inhabitants’ homosexual proclivities – especially with the Genesis story in the minds of Ezekiel’s hearers. After all, the Jews understood “abomination” as a common way of referring to grotesque sexual sin like homosexuality (Lev. 18:22).

Therefore, rather than being an unexpected revision of Scriptural history, Ezekiel’s reference to Sodom is a clear explanation of it, adding to the Genesis account, rather than contradicting it. The “arrogant self-indulgence” of Sodom’s citizens contributed to the sexual perversion.

In fact, this supposition fits more reasonably within the context of Ezekiel’s denunciation of Israel – who, after all, is the real subject of the prophet’s preaching. Israel’s harlotries and abominations, clearly laid out in the earlier portions of Ezekiel 16, are tied to the unfaithful nation’s own wealth and material blessings (vv. 10-14). Such luxury and arrogance, therefore, can lead to sexual perversion, and that would be the precise impact of Ezekiel’s reference to Sodom.

However, the attempt to deflect away from homosexuality the horror of the judgment upon Sodom and Gomorrah receives its fatal blow from the New Testament. The epistles of both 2 Peter and Jude link Sodom’s guilt to carnality and sexual perversion.

In 2 Peter 2, the apostle said the destruction of Sodom and Gomorrah should serve as an example to the wicked of every generation (vs. 6). Lott, he said, continually witnessed “the sensual conduct of unprincipled men,” who, among other things, “indulge the flesh in its corrupt desires” (vv. 7, 10).

Jude 7 makes the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah even more explicit: the inhabitants “indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh,” and what could be stranger than men fornicating with other men?

While the two cursed cities may have been judged for more than their homosexuality, there is no legitimate way to remove homosexuality from the list of sins that doomed them.

 

[OObi]

because we don't think it's up to you to define who is or isn't a Christian?

I never said anything about someone being a Christian or not.

In case you missed the title of this sub-forum, this is about philosophy, you know, were people talk about their thoughts and ideas. In this case concerning Christian morals...

...I'm sorry I thought quoting what the Bible said about why a city was destroyed WAS on topic?

As I recall, this was posted after I told you to stay on topic?

I don't flame people, never have, hopfully never will. I'm here on CF to discuss things and nothing is accomplished by flaming others. I'm sorry if you felt I had, that was never my intention.

need I remind you of your first post?

tulc(we need more threads like this...or not)

Seems flamish to me?

 

[tulc]

While the two cursed cities may have been judged for more than their homosexuality, there is no legitimate way to remove homosexuality from the list of sins that doomed them.

Ahhh! That's why there are 15 threads about not helping the poor enough on CP&E? When people discuss Sodom and Gommorah why is the ONLY reason ever discussed is the "homosexuality" of the people? Which is odd considering there must have been gays in other cities why weren't they distroyed also if being gay was the reason? When people offer another explanation and even can bring out scriptures backing it what's the problem? Is it because people could never see themselves being gay but not helping the poor? hey "I" could be guilty of that!
tulc(just a thought)

 

[tulc]

Seems flamish to me?

As you will.
tulc

 

[lilymarie]

...you mean Ezekial was wrong?
tulc(just reminding you what the Bible said)

Ezekial 16 is not about inhospitality. It's an allegory of unfaithful Jerusalem, who turned to idols and fell away from the law of faith. Read Ezeikel 54 it's saying the "chosen" who were the Hebrews gave Sodom "comfort". So how could Sodom have been destroyed for inhospitality when this is an allergory of Jerusalem's idolatry and falling away from the ways of The Lord's law (?) Reading ALL of Ezekiel is very important to get the meaning of this allergory.

44 " 'Everyone who quotes proverbs will quote this proverb about you: "Like mother, like daughter." 45 You are a true daughter of your mother, who despised her husband and her children; and you are a true sister of your sisters, who despised their husbands and their children. Your mother was a Hittite and your father an Amorite. 46 Your older sister was Samaria, who lived to the north of you with her daughters; and your younger sister, who lived to the south of you with her daughters, was Sodom. 47 You not only walked in their ways and copied their detestable practices, but in all your ways you soon became more depraved than they. 48 As surely as I live, declares the Sovereign LORD, your sister Sodom and her daughters never did what you and your daughters have done.
49 " 'Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy. 50 They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen. 51 Samaria did not commit half the sins you did. You have done more detestable things than they, and have made your sisters seem righteous by all these things you have done. 52 Bear your disgrace, for you have furnished some justification for your sisters. Because your sins were more vile than theirs, they appear more righteous than you. So then, be ashamed and bear your disgrace, for you have made your sisters appear righteous.
53 " 'However, I will restore the fortunes of Sodom and her daughters and of Samaria and her daughters, and your fortunes along with them, 54 so that you may bear your disgrace and be ashamed of all you have done in giving them comfort. 55 And your sisters, Sodom with her daughters and Samaria with her daughters, will return to what they were before; and you and your daughters will return to what you were before. 56 You would not even mention your sister Sodom in the day of your pride, 57 before your wickedness was uncovered. Even so, you are now scorned by the daughters of Edom and all her neighbors and the daughters of the Philistines—all those around you who despise you. 58 You will bear the consequences of your lewdness and your detestable practices, declares the LORD.
59 " 'This is what the Sovereign LORD says: I will deal with you as you deserve, because you have despised my oath by breaking the covenant. 60 Yet I will remember the covenant I made with you in the days of your youth, and I will establish an everlasting covenant with you. 61 Then you will remember your ways and be ashamed when you receive your sisters, both those who are older than you and those who are younger. I will give them to you as daughters, but not on the basis of my covenant with you. 62 So I will establish my covenant with you, and you will know that I am the LORD. 63 Then, when I make atonement for you for all you have done, you will remember and be ashamed and never again open your mouth because of your humiliation, declares the Sovereign LORD.' "

 

[OObi]

Ahhh! That's why there are 15 threads about not helping the poor enough on CP&E? When people discuss Sodom and Gommorah why is the ONLY reason ever discussed is the "homosexuality" of the people? Which is odd considering there must have been gays in other cities why weren't they distroyed also if being gay was the reason? When people offer another explanation and even can bring out scriptures backing it what's the problem? Is it because people could never see themselves being gay but not helping the poor? hey "I" could be guilty of that!
tulc(just a thought)

Because homosexuality is the prevailing sin in those cites. You said before that Sodom and Gommorah didn't discuss homosexuality, but not you admit that it is reason for their destruction? Make up your mind...

I'm not going to pretend to be some high and mighty sinless one. I have my sins, but that doesn't stop me from helping people see the truth. Defending a sin is not the truth, not the way God wants us to be.

 

[OObi]

Which is odd considering there must have been gays in other cities why weren't they distroyed also if being gay was the reason?

People were killed for dancing naked around the calf. By your logic, since idol worshippers aren't struck down with lightening today the sin that the naked dancers were struck down with could not have been idolatry!

 

[Catherineanne]

I agree, that is pretty ridiculous. However, the satan given sexual orientation of homosexuals....

If you give satan the credit for something which belongs to God only, then you break the first commandment. You make satan into God, and you worship him by your words.

I would rather be gay than risk that sin, personally. I can see God forgiving gayness far sooner than forgiving people usurping his throne, and giving it to the evil one.

It is God who creates, not satan. It is God who makes people, not satan. It is God who determines who and what we are, from our mother's womb, not satan. It is also God who chooses to bestow the gift of homosexuality on both men and women, and the rest of us should thank him for that gift, imo. The world would be a far poorer place without gay people, and the gifts they bring to the world along with their sexual orientation, whether or not they express that orientation in a g****** way or not.

There is no Scripture whatever to suggest that satan is capable of giving life, or creating anything whatever, or of love. Satan can only destroy.

Anyone looking at the contribution of gay people to our society will see tremendous life, tremendous creativity, and tremendous love. These things can only come from God.

 

[Catherineanne]

I'm not going to pretend to be some high and mighty sinless one. I have my sins, but that doesn't stop me from helping people see the truth.

You are not called to tell other people of their sins. You are called only to concern yourself with your own sins.

 

[Catherineanne]

Jude 7 makes the sin of Sodom and Gomorrah even more explicit: the inhabitants “indulged in gross immorality and went after strange flesh,” and what could be stranger than men f********* with other men?

I can think of at least 20 options off the top of my head, but I will refrain from posting them, out of respect for public morality.