Homosexuality - Here's how I look at it

EnemyPartyII · May 9, 2007

Meaning you can't back up anything you have claimed about "the church" condoning slavery. I know what I meant when I said it, you twisting my words to suit your assumptions and presuppostions does not constitute me shifting anything. As I said you could point to some wealthy slave owner or slave trader, in the past, who may have read the Bible at some time, and claim they were Bible scholars and represented "the church." And it frosts you no end that I, without even trying, could cite a noted Bible scholar, whose work is cited, and has never been refuted, to this day, who did not support slavery.

Slavery was always exclusive to the wealthy, and then as now the wealthy were a small minority.

If you think you have any historical figure who you think represents the policy of "the church." Then bring it on I have asked more than once. Back it up or pack it up.

What the hell. All your missplaced bluster and willful misunderstanind aside... if you want a specific figure who both studied Biblically AND condoned slavery... off the top of my head... Urban II.

WOW! You can't even recognize an analogy. Just as one Muslim will always defend another Muslim, a homosexual will always defend another homosexual. You had just said, "Father's daughter understands my position quite clearly." One gay person referring to another gay person to confirm something they said.

This is an example of one of those personal put downs you claim not to make.

Um... are you even sure what we were talking about? Father'sdaughter wasn't saying anything to defend my position, she merely expressed an understanding of what I was saying, in an attempt to explain to David X.

So... your "any Muslim will defend another Muslim"... thing (by the way, ever heard of Shia and Sunni? you may like to look into it) what does it have to do with anything? Homosexuals can't back each other up, as far as you are concerned? too biased, or what? Wouldn't the same thinking apply to Christians? If I misunderstand what you are trying to say, can you please attempt to explain it to me without getting all indignant?

Check out any of the numerous false religions which have sprung up in the last century or so. Every one of them makes the same claim. "any injunction against (name your pet sin or doctrine) that may be gleaned from the Bible, is an artifact of its irational human authors or editors, and NOT the result of divine inspiration."

Added: And see Cubanito's excellent post immediately below. I have said the same thing many times, he said much better than I have.

Um... fails to address the question of WHY God should make such an irational law regarding homosexuality... any law against something that has a RATIONAL explanation, you bet I will follow it. But if there is no rational explanation, just saying "The Bible SEZ!" isn't good enough.

TheFathersDaughter · May 9, 2007

MercyBurst said:
So you finally admit a person can wanna be or not wanna be involved in gay sex. Choice IS involved. Hooray. You are making progress. Cheers....

At last count I'm active on a whopping incredible two threads in the past week or so. That's gotta be a record, right? You wouldn't be exagerrating just a little bit would 'ya? And like many people, I ask myself why gays seem to over-exaggerate so much. Is it rationalization and denial at work?

Wow, even if it's sarcastic that's the worse twisting of words I've every seen.

Like many people, I ask myself why straights seen to generalize and stereotype so much. Is it hatred and elitism at work? Words can hurt darling.

MercyBurst · May 9, 2007

TheFathersDaughter said:
Wow, even if it's sarcastic that's the worse twisting of words I've every seen.

Here's Rick's original quote that I responded to:

..[SIZE=-1]and once again, here is our resident gay wanna be MercyBurst who is on every gay thread morning, noon, and nite. . [/SIZE]

Rick said I've been posting on every single thread without interruption. Are you agreeing with that accusation?

He also said I wanna be gay (like I'm choosing to). If he says I can choose then why can't I say the same about him? Like they say, if you can't take it, then don't dish it out.

cubanito · May 9, 2007

TheFathersDaughter said:
But by your definition I'm not even gay. Because to you, being gay means having sex with someone of the same gender. By your definition, I'm just someone more attracted to the same gender than the opposite gender.

Once you get down to it, there is, again, nothing wrong with homosexuality that will physically or mentally harm someone. THIS IS THE MAJOR FLAW. When it's not paired with any other sin, simply attraction doesn't harm society or the person who feels that attraction. Because that's all homosexuality is is an attraction to the same sex. Don't refute this by saying "spiritual guilt" because anything can be spiritual guilt if you're religious and some one tells you something is against your religion.

There are no commands God just gives. There is a reason for all of them. The only one with no obvious harm is this world is following Him and Him only but there are so many obvious reasons why that is a sin. Homosexuality can't be determined as unnatural simply by reading Genesis and it isn't the reason Paul describes the nature as sinful. Homosexual attraction doesn't harm the person in any humane way or any other person in any humane way. This sets it a part from every other sin, all of which have SOME SORT OF CONSEQUENCE OR HARM.

Murder - Someone else is sent to death. Harm to society.
Cheating - Failure later in life from not doing it right. Harm to self.
Stealing - Same as cheating.
Adultery - Loss of trust and loss of love. Harm to self and society.
Homosexuality - Nothing if people would stop making such a big deal about it.

God doesn't make sins so He can tell us what to do. He makes sins so we can protect ourself and life prosperous lives for him. Assume for a second there is no sin. God's only command is to live a prosperous life. Cheating, stealing, murder and adultery, along with all the others, would not lead to a prosperous life on earth. It would lead to distrust and downfall. Homosexuality wouldn't cause this. In fact it may help (since attraction is the first step to a relationship and spouses are important in helping through life).

In short, homosexuality being a sin by Christian standard of sin is...well, it doesn't make sense. Okay. Rant over.

As to wether u are or not a homosexual, I am no one to say. By your definition I would, very carefully, gently suggest that perhaps you are. However, since you do not act on it, you restrain yourself from the sin which your flesh attracts you. My not engaging in a homosexual act is of no merit: it is my nature, thus I resist no temptation towards homosexuality. On those times when I have lost weight, or those times I refuse the free food that is daily paraded by me, I resist my flesh, and this is honorable. But this is all personal, and I would prefer not to dwell there.

"God dosen't make sins so He can tell us what to do." is a statement with so many errors it is difficult to know where to start.

1- God does not make sin PERIOD. Sin is the ABSCENSE of God. Put another way, sin is ANY deviation from the Divine ideal. It is a very narrow way from which we have ALL departed. In the Hebrew sin can be transliterated as "to miss the mark." Thus an archer who misses the bullseye "sins" in the physical sense. According to Christ, to be saved you must be PERFECT, "as your Father in Heaven is perfect." As the Apostles later on asked after the episode with the rich young ruler "Who then can be saved? Jesus then looking at them said, with men this is IMPOSSIBLE, but with God all things are possible." Matt 19:25-27 Or if you prefer an authority held in higher esteem than Jesus in some quarters ) ), Augustine explained sin as a negative thing, as the absence of God, as the turning away from that which is perfect. By Augustinian thinking, which on this I agree, evil is a parasite on Good, and sin and aberration from a standard. Or if you are a hyperdispy and will listen to nought but Paul, "I was alive apart from the Law once, but the commandment came, and sin came alive, and I died" Romans 7:9 In fact just read all Romans, it is a clear, linear-logical argument that sin can only be if there is Law. But if you listen not to the OT, or Jesus, or Paul or even the RC's most venerated theologians, but prefer to listen to your own thoughts, what shall I say to you?

2-"...so He can tell us what to do." Oh really? God is not in the habit of commanding His people to do this or that, often even to the sacrifice of one's own life? If you think God's commands are all for your (or my) personal benefit, then tell me what all those passages about suffering are about? I agree that ultimately, viewed from a million year's retrospective in Heaven, denying the flesh, suffering for the Faith and so on will be of great benefit BUT in the here and now there are plenty of commands that are not to my personal benefit. So you think all those martyrs that are suffering and dying around the world right now would agree that God's commandments are all for personal health and wealth?

3- Homosexuality as a "victimless" crime. I am going to avoid refuting this argument on it's merits (or lack thereof). As the Borg say, "it is irrelevant". God is one giant Borg who demands absolute obedience. There is no room for individual judgement once God has spoken. Even were it true, it is irrelevant if homosexuality is harmful or not. Billions of people think that lying about Santa Claus is not really bad. Plenty of others argue that prostitution is a victimless crime. Another billion+ group think that genocide is positively a duty and good (muslims on Jews, tutus on hutus, ancient Zulus on everybody ect).
So YOU think homosexuality is a victimless crime. And you are , who, exactly? The Judge of the Universe? The King of the world? No, me and you are basically drones, and God is The Borg. Unlike StarTrek, God-Borg does not assimilate without consent. And, (wonder of wonders!) once you submit He does not extinguish your individuality. Rather, WITHIN His decrees you are affirmed and loved. But His FIRST decree is that you acknowledge He and He alone is Judge and God.

It is a stark simple choice: God's way, or your way.

Now for a moment of wit, from someone better than I, loosely quoted:

At the end there shall only be 2 kinds of people. Those who say to God: "Your Will be done." And those to whom God says "your will be done." CS Lewis

TheFathersDaughter · May 9, 2007

MercyBurst said:
Here's Rick's original quote that I responded to:

Rick said I've been posting on every single thread without interruption. Are you agreeing with that accusation?

He also said I wanna be gay (like I'm choosing to). If he says I can choose then why can't I say the same about him? Like they say, if you can't take it, then don't dish it out.

From the sound of it, he was making fun of you for TRYING to be gay. Again, twisting words.

TheFathersDaughter · May 9, 2007

cubanito said:
As to wether u are or not a homosexual, I am no one to say. By your definition I would, very carefully, gently suggest that perhaps you are. However, since you do not act on it, you restrain yourself from the sin which your flesh attracts you. My not engaging in a homosexual act is of no merit: it is my nature, thus I resist no temptation towards homosexuality. On those times when I have lost weight, or those times I refuse the free food that is daily paraded by me, I resist my flesh, and this is honorable. But this is all personal, and I would prefer not to dwell there.

"God dosen't make sins so He can tell us what to do." is a statement with so many errors it is difficult to know where to start.

1- God does not make sin PERIOD. Sin is the ABSCENSE of God. Put another way, sin is ANY deviation from the Divine ideal. It is a very narrow way from which we have ALL departed. In the Hebrew sin can be transliterated as "to miss the mark." Thus an archer who misses the bullseye "sins" in the physical sense. According to Christ, to be saved you must be PERFECT, "as your Father in Heaven is perfect." As the Apostles later on asked after the episode with the rich young ruler "Who then can be saved? Jesus then looking at them said, with men this is IMPOSSIBLE, but with God all things are possible." Matt 19:25-27 Or if you prefer an authority held in higher esteem than Jesus in some quarters ) ), Augustine explained sin as a negative thing, as the absence of God, as the turning away from that which is perfect. By Augustinian thinking, which on this I agree, evil is a parasite on Good, and sin and aberration from a standard. Or if you are a hyperdispy and will listen to nought but Paul, "I was alive apart from the Law once, but the commandment came, and sin came alive, and I died" Romans 7:9 In fact just read all Romans, it is a clear, linear-logical argument that sin can only be if there is Law. But if you listen not to the OT, or Jesus, or Paul or even the RC's most venerated theologians, but prefer to listen to your own thoughts, what shall I say to you?

2-"...so He can tell us what to do." Oh really? God is not in the habit of commanding His people to do this or that, often even to the sacrifice of one's own life? If you think God's commands are all for your (or my) personal benefit, then tell me what all those passages about suffering are about? I agree that ultimately, viewed from a million year's retrospective in Heaven, denying the flesh, suffering for the Faith and so on will be of great benefit BUT in the here and now there are plenty of commands that are not to my personal benefit. So you think all those martyrs that are suffering and dying around the world right now would agree that God's commandments are all for personal health and wealth?

3- Homosexuality as a "victimless" crime. I am going to avoid refuting this argument on it's merits (or lack thereof). As the Borg say, "it is irrelevant". God is one giant Borg who demands absolute obedience. There is no room for individual judgement once God has spoken. Even were it true, it is irrelevant if homosexuality is harmful or not. Billions of people think that lying about Santa Claus is not really bad. Plenty of others argue that prostitution is a victimless crime. Another billion+ group think that genocide is positively a duty and good (muslims on Jews, tutus on hutus, ancient Zulus on everybody ect).
So YOU think homosexuality is a victimless crime. And you are , who, exactly? The Judge of the Universe? The King of the world? No, me and you are basically drones, and God is The Borg. Unlike StarTrek, God-Borg does not assimilate without consent. And, (wonder of wonders!) once you submit He does not extinguish your individuality. Rather, WITHIN His decrees you are affirmed and loved. But His FIRST decree is that you acknowledge He and He alone is Judge and God.

It is a stark simple choice: God's way, or your way.

Now for a moment of wit, from someone better than I, loosely quoted:

At the end there shall only be 2 kinds of people. Those who say to God: "Your Will be done." And those to whom God says "your will be done." CS Lewis

You didn't really refute ANYTHING I just said. Let me summarize it.

God doesn't deem certain actions sins for no reason (also, way to twist my words in that first part). There is always a reason. He deems certain things a sin so we don't hurt ourselves (being the stupid things we are).

UnitedInChrist · May 9, 2007

TheFathersDaughter said:
From the sound of it, he was making fun of you for TRYING to be gay. Again, twisting words.

OK MercyBurst...let's get it correct if you're going to use my name in your posts.....

Rick said I've been posting on every single thread without interruption. Are you agreeing with that accusation?
Rick said (Hi, I'm Rick)..you have posted on nearly every single Homosexual thread at this site. Why the fixation? I'm not check time to see if there is an iterrupiton of any kind..I just really would like to know why you are so obsessed with homosexuality and know more about it than any homosexual would ever care.?

He also said I wanna be gay (like I'm choosing to). If he says I can choose then why can't I say the same about him? Like they say, if you can't take it, then don't dish it out.
Rick NEVER said (Hi..this is Rick again) you "wanna be gay". I believe i asked if you were and you said awhile back that no, you are married for a second time...first wife deceased, have grown children, and believe that your brother is a bi-sexual. You can say anything you want TO ME via a post, so why ask Father's Daughter what you can ask me? I never said you wanna be gay...that's ridiculous. Actually, I think your obession with it would lead one to believe you are, or perhaps would like to try it..or maybe you "were" and you now just bury it...deep. I have no idea. Like I said, your fixation on homosexuality is very puzzling to me, but as far as anything else...I don't give it much thought.

UnitedInChrist · May 9, 2007

cubanito said:
As to wether u are or not a homosexual, I am no one to say. By your definition I would, very carefully, gently suggest that perhaps you are. However, since you do not act on it, you restrain yourself from the sin which your flesh attracts you. My not engaging in a homosexual act is of no merit: it is my nature, thus I resist no temptation towards homosexuality. On those times when I have lost weight, or those times I refuse the free food that is daily paraded by me, I resist my flesh, and this is honorable. But this is all personal, and I would prefer not to dwell there.

"God dosen't make sins so He can tell us what to do." is a statement with so many errors it is difficult to know where to start.

1- God does not make sin PERIOD. Sin is the ABSCENSE of God. Put another way, sin is ANY deviation from the Divine ideal. It is a very narrow way from which we have ALL departed. In the Hebrew sin can be transliterated as "to miss the mark." Thus an archer who misses the bullseye "sins" in the physical sense. According to Christ, to be saved you must be PERFECT, "as your Father in Heaven is perfect." As the Apostles later on asked after the episode with the rich young ruler "Who then can be saved? Jesus then looking at them said, with men this is IMPOSSIBLE, but with God all things are possible." Matt 19:25-27 Or if you prefer an authority held in higher esteem than Jesus in some quarters ) ), Augustine explained sin as a negative thing, as the absence of God, as the turning away from that which is perfect. By Augustinian thinking, which on this I agree, evil is a parasite on Good, and sin and aberration from a standard. Or if you are a hyperdispy and will listen to nought but Paul, "I was alive apart from the Law once, but the commandment came, and sin came alive, and I died" Romans 7:9 In fact just read all Romans, it is a clear, linear-logical argument that sin can only be if there is Law. But if you listen not to the OT, or Jesus, or Paul or even the RC's most venerated theologians, but prefer to listen to your own thoughts, what shall I say to you?

2-"...so He can tell us what to do." Oh really? God is not in the habit of commanding His people to do this or that, often even to the sacrifice of one's own life? If you think God's commands are all for your (or my) personal benefit, then tell me what all those passages about suffering are about? I agree that ultimately, viewed from a million year's retrospective in Heaven, denying the flesh, suffering for the Faith and so on will be of great benefit BUT in the here and now there are plenty of commands that are not to my personal benefit. So you think all those martyrs that are suffering and dying around the world right now would agree that God's commandments are all for personal health and wealth?

3- Homosexuality as a "victimless" crime. I am going to avoid refuting this argument on it's merits (or lack thereof). As the Borg say, "it is irrelevant". God is one giant Borg who demands absolute obedience. There is no room for individual judgement once God has spoken. Even were it true, it is irrelevant if homosexuality is harmful or not. Billions of people think that lying about Santa Claus is not really bad. Plenty of others argue that prostitution is a victimless crime. Another billion+ group think that genocide is positively a duty and good (muslims on Jews, tutus on hutus, ancient Zulus on everybody ect).
So YOU think homosexuality is a victimless crime. And you are , who, exactly? The Judge of the Universe? The King of the world? No, me and you are basically drones, and God is The Borg. Unlike StarTrek, God-Borg does not assimilate without consent. And, (wonder of wonders!) once you submit He does not extinguish your individuality. Rather, WITHIN His decrees you are affirmed and loved. But His FIRST decree is that you acknowledge He and He alone is Judge and God.

It is a stark simple choice: God's way, or your way.

Now for a moment of wit, from someone better than I, loosely quoted:

At the end there shall only be 2 kinds of people. Those who say to God: "Your Will be done." And those to whom God says "your will be done." CS Lewis

Spoken in the classic fundamentalist tongue (no, not in holy spirit tongues when you roll on the floor, but fundamentalist with all the "flesh of the sin" bantor") I continue to shake my head in "shock and awe" when it comes to fundamentalists condemning most everything about the human experience. The body is a temple of sin...to turn your back on. The fundamentalist's life of misery...always trying to beat themselves up over the fact that they can't be mini-gods as they get ready for their one way pass to heaven while everyone steps aside to give them more room. Why can't fundamentalists have some self-esteem? Why can they build confidence in people? Why do they always force people to change. Belittle people with God doesn't approve of this, or God doesn't approve of that, etc? Did you ever stop to think that perhaps many with different beliefs than yours believe they are living by a divine plan?
Why must a fundamentalists life be all about suffering for Jesus? I find it just a bit disturbing that God gave us life so we can be tortured souls until we meet with him again. Anyway, not that you will change...Just my 2 cents.

As far as homosexuality, YES, it most DEFINATELY IS VICTIMLESS!!! It is the sexuality of a being..their OWN PERSONAL EXPERIENCE. It involves no one other than them..period. Prostitution...victimless?? I think not. First off..it's criminal (minus vegas). Secondly it is sexual divance...selling sex is hardly victimless. Thirdly, is is abuse. You need not be of any authority to say homosexuality is victimless. I am a homosexual...have I no authority over myself to say so? Who am I putting in danger with my sexuality? Sure, if I abuse it, or am casual about my sex, etc...then their are victims..of course. Who, for example would be a victim if I were to tell you I am a celibate homosexual? or that I abstain from my sexuality? Will it kill me? Is it a crime on society? Will I get heart disease as a result? Ill I develop cancer ? Please enlighten me oh worthy one.

Again, your statements are rooted in fundamentalism...just the way you talk here and that general theme of "sins of flesh" and "satan"...you give them much more power than they deserve simply by all the attention you give them. I embrace life, so this way when it's done...I lived for something. My life will not be to continual beat myself up over God's disappointment in me. He's not. He gave me life. I am healthy..and I thank Him everyday that he lets me wake up and tackle yet another day. My mom could have aborted me and my life would never have been mine..but she didn't. I'm here. I'm a human being with a body that I cherish, and love, and embrace..and not something that i look on like a prison for my sinful soul. Then again...my opinon of course. If somethings I do that my body reponds to with pleasure..it is GOD GIVEN and it is HE that gave me the joy that I feel so I can experience what PLEASURE is. God would not bless me with something that i spend a life time escaping from. Listen, I took that trip down the guilt road when I was a kid in Catholic school. You know the place where you had to beg for forgiveness for being late to class, or beg for forgiveness because you missed mass, or beg for forgiveness because you masterbated. We are HUMAN. As humans it is HUMAN NATURE TO MAKE MISTAKES!!! Get on with your life, and don't use your faith as a crutch for all things bad. If you do something bad..blame yourself..not a "satan". Guilt is highly overrated, and it's what you bring on yourself based on what people are teaching you to think. I don't buy it for a second.

MercyBurst · May 9, 2007

TheFathersDaughter said:
From the sound of it, he was making fun of you for TRYING to be gay. Again, twisting words.

Likewise from me. When Rick does it, it's ok. When I do the same it's:

Wow, even if it's sarcastic that's the worse twisting of words I've every seen.

Like many people, I ask myself why straights seen to generalize and stereotype so much. Is it hatred and elitism at work? Words can hurt darling.

Hearing the same thing from me makes it "hateful" and "elite"! Oh, I see, it's just a sterotype at work. Like an ex-gay minister is really something sinister or something like that. whatever, at least I know I'm the bad guy now.

Murdock · May 10, 2007

EZoolander said:
My viewpoint gets me mixed reactions from my friends. Some people really like how I look at it - others seem to really disagree and it's a real bone of contention.

I was raised taught that we are all sinners. Good works will not earn our way into heaven. The fact that we are living with sin makes us all equally guity of sin in God's eyes. It's only through our faith, and our redemption through Christ, that we are found worthy of salvation. God pretty much views us all equally due to our sin.

The important part is...God views us all equally unworthy of salvation based upon our own merit.

To me this means there is no hierarchy of sin. For example - if I have lust in my heart - that's not a bigger sin than if someone that tells a white lie. God isn't more "[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]ed off" at my sin than he is at the other. It's the fact that we are impure, and with sin, that matters. That's what God sees.

On that note... Homosexuality is just another sin. It doesn't rank higher in God's eyes than any other sin. Sin is sin, and Homosexuality is just another facet of it. God isn't up there fuming more over the homosexual than he is over any other sin.

If God isn't fuming more over homosexuality than any other sin - then I'm not going to either. It's God's place to judge - not mine. It's not my choice of lifestyle, but neither are a litany of other things. In a world full people hurting each other, being cruel, murdering each other, etc...the last thing I need to burden myself with is worrying about what consensual adults choose to do with their reproductive organs.

That's how I see it. God will have the final say. Until then, I'm going to worry about things that in my humble opinion truly do effect our quality of life while we're here.

Yup. Without God, I am as much at the mercy of my sin as a homosexual is of his sin. So none of us can help our sin which is why Jesus Christ is the only solution to the sin problem.

cubanito · May 11, 2007

TheFathersDaughter said:
You didn't really refute ANYTHING I just said. Let me summarize it.

God doesn't deem certain actions sins for no reason (also, way to twist my words in that first part). There is always a reason. He deems certain things a sin so we don't hurt ourselves (being the stupid things we are).

Wrong, God does not deem things sin certain actions because they are hurtful to us. God deems certain actions sin PERIOD.

If God labeled an action sinful just or even primarily because it was harmful to us, then a martyr's death is a sinful death. All those people being exterminated in Muslim and Communist lands should deny Christ and live.

At times we know why a particular sin is harmful, or contrary to God's nature. At times we do not know WHY a particular action is contrary to His Nature, He simply declares it a sin. At times a certain action is not a sin at one time in history (incest), and at another it is. At the current moment, the NT is our last Testament, and in it the injuctions against homosexuality are repeated. In addition, Romans assures us it is not only a sin, but harmful to men. So does any unbiased review of statistics: male homosexuality is not a healthy lifestyle. I have explained why, it does not take a medical degree to understand it.

As I say repeatedly, homosexuality or homosexual acts are sin BUT they are not the worst of sin. The worst of sin is having the mindset that God is our puppet; that when we do not agree with His Judgements we are free to pick, choose and reinterpret.

It is either God's narrow Way, or the broad highway.

God is not here primarily to bless us, or coddle us, or make our lives better. Often, God is a major inconvenience, bringing a sword and divisions among families, as He warned. In most of the world, during most of history, following Christ has been more than an inconvinience, it has been potentially fatal.

God IS because He Is. We exist at His decision, and for the primary purpose of bringing Him Glory. We are here for Him. He being here for us is on His terms, and by His decision.

God has not changed. Repent still comes before "...and be saved."

You can continue to think I've not refuted your thoughts, but please do not think we even vaguely agree.

JR

cubanito · May 11, 2007

Murdock said:
Yup. Without God, I am as much at the mercy of my sin as a homosexual is of his sin. So none of us can help our sin which is why Jesus Christ is the only solution to the sin problem.

Exactly right, we are ALL deserving of Hell.

Homosexuals are no more destructive of their bodies or deserving of hell than a glutton like me. It is anyone that denies the right of God to make those judgements, wo having to even explain Himself to you, that is more deserving of hell than me.

It is NOT my actions that "earn" me Heaven. It is my willingness to acknowledge He is the boss. After that, I try to follow, more often than not miserably so.

Admit that, submit to God's Judgements, and you will find the Judge takes off his black robes, and uses them as a towel to clean your feet.

As to me coming from a fundy viewpoint, thank you rick. You've read my stuff before when you visited the fundy subforum. For me it is a compliment to be called a fundy, thank you. I just opened a new bottle and had a nice glass of sangria to celebrate the compliment. I wish you would meet we wo knowing who I am exactly. At least once a week people tell me I should have been a stand up comedian. Every week I invent a new "hat" to wear to the men's Bible study. Last time it was the frame of an old TV. It was my turn to teach and so I thought it would be fun to do so from inside a TV frame, imitating one of the tape series we on occasion have. You have no idea who I am in my personal life, rick, but laughter is no stranger to me. Two of my employees are homosexuals, and used to live together. When they began to argue, they came to me to see if I could help patch it up between them. They are completely aware of my views. Yet I was their choice for improptu councelor between them, down to the intimate details.

You have read my stuff rick, do I effuse hatred of homosexuality in what I write? I don't think so.

What I hate is when we deny what God has had written, just to appease our conscience.

JR

UnitedInChrist · May 11, 2007

cubanito said:
Exactly right, we are ALL deserving of Hell.

Homosexuals are no more destructive of their bodies or deserving of hell than a glutton like me. It is anyone that denies the right of God to make those judgements, wo having to even explain Himself to you, that is more deserving of hell than me.

It is NOT my actions that "earn" me Heaven. It is my willingness to acknowledge He is the boss. After that, I try to follow, more often than not miserably so.

Admit that, submit to God's Judgements, and you will find the Judge takes off his black robes, and uses them as a towel to clean your feet.

As to me coming from a fundy viewpoint, thank you rick. You've read my stuff before when you visited the fundy subforum. For me it is a compliment to be called a fundy, thank you. I just opened a new bottle and had a nice glass of sangria to celebrate the compliment. I wish you would meet we wo knowing who I am exactly. At least once a week people tell me I should have been a stand up comedian. Every week I invent a new "hat" to wear to the men's Bible study. Last time it was the frame of an old TV. It was my turn to teach and so I thought it would be fun to do so from inside a TV frame, imitating one of the tape series we on occasion have. You have no idea who I am in my personal life, rick, but laughter is no stranger to me. Two of my employees are homosexuals, and used to live together. When they began to argue, they came to me to see if I could help patch it up between them. They are completely aware of my views. Yet I was their choice for improptu councelor between them, down to the intimate details.

You have read my stuff rick, do I effuse hatred of homosexuality in what I write? I don't think so.

What I hate is when we deny what God has had written, just to appease our conscience.

JR

I don't hate..or at least I try not to. I disagree yes o course..and I do disagree with much of what you state. You are right..I know nothing about you, other than the bits of info you put on here. The same goes for me. I have no reason to not believe you are a happy, funny, heartfilled man...you've never led me to believe you weren't. It's great that two gay guys can come to you and ask for help, rather than you telling them they need to go to an exgay ministry to change their brain. Well...maybe you did do that..I don't know. Anyway, about that sangria...wish I had some now...It's is the end of day Fri after all!!!

Homosexuality - Here's how I look at it

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